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Guest Message by DevFuse

Lifting The Ban on Series Four Spoilers.

As it has now been a decent amount of time since the airing of series 4 of Sherlock we feel it is prudent to relax the ban on discussion of series 4 episodes in the general Sherlock discussion areas.

We would ask that members continue to keep within the bounds of topic titles and subjects, in order to make it easier for people to choose which discussions they wish to view.

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Recommend a Fandom... or What Other TV Shows Do You Watch


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267 replies to this topic

#261 Carol the Dabbler

Carol the Dabbler

    Consulting Detective

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  • Favourite Series 3 Episode:The Sign of Three
  • Favourite series 4 episode:The Abominable Bride

Posted Yesterday, 04:31 PM

On the one hand, you will meet an amazing, vibrant man who will change your life, cure your limp, and bring colour and excitement back into your world. 

 

On the other hand, that same man will be responsible for some of the worst things that will ever happen to you, constantly insult and belittle you, and there will be a time when you will come close to destroying each other.

 

With the possible exception of the limp, that sounds like an awful lot of marriages.

 

I suppose that something along those lines (though hopefully nowhere near as extreme) is only to be expected in any close relationship.  Any time you let someone inside your shields, they're in a position to cause you dreadful pain.  And it would take a true saint to *never* abuse that position.


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-- Carol

 


#262 Pseudonym

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Posted Yesterday, 04:38 PM

... grim. 


That's clever. Is it clever? Why is it clever?


#263 T.o.b.y

T.o.b.y

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Posted Yesterday, 07:29 PM

Ha, maybe. ;) Another thing my dad used to do, before he retired, was casually mention at the dinner table that he'd slipped with a tool and caught his arm. He'd talk about it like it was a paper cut, but it was well known that if he had bothered to mention it it was going to be some horrific bloody gouge. He's always been pretty stoic about injuries and pain. My brother, on the other hand, used to scream he was having a heart attack whenever he had heart burn.

Even though it's sad I like seeing John in the bedsit in the beginning, you really get a feel of how empty, grey and pointless his life is. At the same time he doesn't really want to have to interact with anyone, especially no one he knew when he was young and fit, when Mike calls his name he seems to speed up a bit to avoid having to talk to him. I wonder if, at this point, if someone showed him the future would he still choose to meet Sherlock?

On the one hand, you will meet an amazing, vibrant man who will change your life, cure your limp, and bring colour and excitement back into your world.

On the other hand, that same man will be responsible for some of the worst things that will ever happen to you, constantly insult and belittle you, and there will be a time when you will come close to destroying each other.


Hmm. You know what? I think the John Watson Martin Freeman plays might have said no. There's always this reluctance in his friendship with Sherlock, as if he is drawn to him not only against his better judgment but also his will.
"All lives end - all hearts are broken" / "The East Wind takes us all in the end"

#264 Pseudonym

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Posted Yesterday, 08:02 PM

I've noticed that too, from as early as TBB John doesn't seem to actually like Sherlock all that much, it's more like he tolerates him just to have the perk of crime scenes. It's sad really that it's played that way, that one of the great famous literally friendships gets reduced to John gritting his teeth. Yes, this Sherlock is more abrasive than he is in the books, and I like the fact that John is not at all bungling and fuddy-duddy, but it would have been nice to see a bit more genuine friendship between them that can't just be written off as a result of adrenaline. I get the impression that Sherlock, despite his casual insults, likes and appreciates John more than John likes and appreciates him. Really it's not that much of a surprise that Sherlock, ill equipped to deal with interpersonal relationships at the best of times, doesn't know he's John's best friend. 

Martin plays John a bit like I imagine Martin himself, ie angry, passive-aggressive (at best), and spiky. Obviously I love the series and these versions of the characters, but I do wish he had dialled it back a bit, or that the angriness came out more at villains and less with Sherlock. It's funny in fic how often john is described as a healer and a protector, when we actually see little of either, especially in regards to his best bud. Perhaps TLD has poisoned me to John so I'm more inclined to look upon him unfavourably now, but I remember being surprised in TBB that he was already exasperated with Sherlock and was pretty confrontational. Perhaps you can guys can help jog my memory and point out scenes where we see John being genuinely nice and friendly when they're not in case mode (or drunk)? There have to be some scenes, but I'm drawing a blank. I guess because they spend so much time on crime scenes that's the only time there's any chance for them to be seen as friendly on screen. Bah.  


That's clever. Is it clever? Why is it clever?


#265 Arcadia

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Posted Yesterday, 09:25 PM

Hmm, I see what you mean but I never quite saw John as disliking Sherlock, just being exasperated by him. Even in TLD I don't see dislike so much as ... as sense of betrayal, I guess? Although I still maintain that John in that episode is really down on himself, not Sherlock, but Sherlock happens to be a convenient target for John's need to vent his anger.

 

At any rate, as to scenes where he seems to like Sherlock ... the first thing that came to mind was him punching out the superintendent for insulting Sherlock in TRF. Though that could be due more to loyalty than to fondness, but I choose to think John's loyal because he IS fond.

 

I think the warmest moment between them is when John asks Sherlock to be his best man. Hmmmm.... giggling together and sassing Mycroft at Buckingham Palace, does that count as liking? Trying to calm him down when he's freaking out during Hounds? Going to the Holmes' cottage for Christmas? There's something else tickling at the back of my mind but I can't come up with it right now.


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#266 Pseudonym

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Posted Yesterday, 09:38 PM

I don't think John dislikes him, that's a bit too strong, but there are times he doesn't seem to particularly like him either.

 

I'm not sure about the Christmas cottage, that all seems iffy, I get the impression there was some careful manoeuvring by Sherlock to get everyone where he needed them. Baskerville is a good point though, especially since John seems genuinely bothered by Sherlock seemingly rejecting his friendship. And the palace giggles, though I'm still a bit thrown exactly why John takes a good long look at Sherlock's crotch instead of just asking if he's wearing pants straight off, but that's a whole other issue. 

I do remember John being impressed by Sherlock's deductions again on the bank of the river in TGG, there he seems impressed again for a while. At what point does he obviously stop being impressed by the deductions and seems more irritated, is it just after the Fall?


That's clever. Is it clever? Why is it clever?


#267 Arcadia

Arcadia

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Posted Today, 12:24 AM

Oh, well, sometimes I don't like him (or John) either. For example, I want to kick him every time I see him manipulating Molly in TBB. But I'm still fond of him. He's a monster, but he's our monster. :smile:

 

I thought John kind of took Sherlock for granted in S3. And I believe he was still irritated with him as well. But he also seemed to place absolute trust in Sherlock when they went to meet Magnussen. Soooo ... I don't know what that points to. :smile:


It's this, or Cluedo.

#268 Pseudonym

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Posted Today, 02:24 AM

Do you really think he's a monster? That line always bugged me. :wacko:

That's clever. Is it clever? Why is it clever?