Jeremy Brett

[Carol the Dabbler]

It sounds like they're nearly all related in some fashion.  OK, I guess this (from The Family page) explains it:

Quote

A new company is established by 8 members of the family all of whom are relations of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle by blood or marriage. The company is lead by a board of three family directors ....

So the three are apparently the board members.

[Arcadia]

On 11/5/2019 at 11:34 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Perhaps Condon pointed out that all he did was extrapolate from the earlier (no longer copyrighted) stories.  Having seen the movie only once, I'm trying to recall -- did it mention Holmes's bees, or the location of his cottage?

Yes to the bees ... in fact, they played a rather pivotal role at the end, as I recall.

Not so sure about mentioning Sussex, but given the filmatic views of the cottage and its surroundings, I bet it was easy for a lot of people to guess.

On 11/5/2019 at 9:23 AM, Hikari said:

I enjoyed "Mr. Holmes" very much, too, though it was tough to see the Great Detective depicted as so frail.  Truly the loss of his intellect would be a fate worse than death for the Great Detective.  A former correspondent from the Amazon Movie Lounge declined to watch it owing to the 'decrepitude of the icon' which it depicts. 

I was somewhat reluctant to see it myself for the same reason. But I'm glad I did, I loved the movie. And I thought they managed an upbeat note to the ending.

Here's (sort of) the results of the lawsuit:

https://variety.com/2015/biz/news/mr-holmes-lawsuit-settlement-arthur-conan-doyle-1201585667/

It appears to have been resolved rather amicably, from what I can tell. No money involved, at any rate.

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Yes to the bees ... in fact, they played a rather pivotal role at the end, as I recall.

Not so sure about mentioning Sussex, but given the filmatic views of the cottage and its surroundings, I bet it was easy for a lot of people to guess.

It seems unlikely to me that they'd be able to sue over where the movie was filmed.  That's not exactly a plot point in the original stories.  As for the bees, not exactly a plot point either, I think, but getting warmer.

[HerlockSholmes]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:40 PM, Hikari said:

Probably because they are the only ones with a connection to Conan Doyle.   Nobody cares about the lawyers and accountants that comprise the other 5. 

 

I assumed that the five that are mentioned at the bottom aren’t the ‘other’ five? Maybe they are though?

[HerlockSholmes]

I never made it back to the Forum by September 12th.

25 years since Brett’s death☹️

Why no posthumous Knighthood? I think it’s been called for by Stephen Fry and others.

[Carol the Dabbler]

34 minutes ago, HerlockSholmes said:

25 years since Brett’s death☹️

Why no posthumous Knighthood? I think it’s been called for by Stephen Fry and others.

If knighthood for actors was based solely on their professional work, I'd say the omission is odd.  However, the "whereas" list generally seems to include a significant list of charitable and activist involvements.  Do you happen to know whether Mr. Brett engaged in such activities?

P.S.:  As I'm sure you're aware, Doyle was not knighted for his Holmes stories, but rather for his now largely forgotten historical fiction.  So I guess that's a negative precedent of sorts.

 

[HerlockSholmes]

I’m not aware of him being linked to any charity Carol. He did speak about depression on behalf of on charity group I believe and he financially supported Lynda Pritchard’s run for cancer but these two facts don’t cry out for a knighthood of course. He was known as a kind hearted man so it’s entirely possible that he made contributions without publicity but again you can’t knight someone on a possible or a probable.

Being the best Holmes ever is enough reason in my book but not everyone would agree.

By the way Carol I’m typing from an iPhone (not my own) and the screen keeps freezing when I try to use these emoji’s. Am I alone with this problem?

[Hikari]

5 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I’m not aware of him being linked to any charity Carol. He did speak about depression on behalf of on charity group I believe and he financially supported Lynda Pritchard’s run for cancer but these two facts don’t cry out for a knighthood of course. He was known as a kind hearted man so it’s entirely possible that he made contributions without publicity but again you can’t knight someone on a possible or a probable.

Being the best Holmes ever is enough reason in my book but not everyone would agree.

By the way Carol I’m typing from an iPhone (not my own) and the screen keeps freezing when I try to use these emoji’s. Am I alone with this problem?

The exclusion of Mr. Brett from the knighthood list rankles, though it would be more for us than for him at this point.  I'm sure charitable activities are favorably looked upon but I rather doubt every single person on the Honors lists engages in visible humanitarian works to earn their standing.  The honors are for 'services to the country' in their chosen discipline, and Mr. Brett certainly excelled in his.  Even a few Americans have honorary knight/damehoods.  Charitable works would be more expected among this contingent of non-Britons, and the Gateses are featured, along with Bob Hope and Angelina Jolie, who have done their bit for charity organizations.  J. Edgar Hoover is a quizzical choice, as is Ralph Lauren.  Maybe Princess Anne and family are fans of his designs?  He specializes in sporty clothes for the well-heeled horsey set.  

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/awards-and-accreditation/content/103441

Selected American recipients:

• George H W Bush GCB
• Dwight D Eisenhower GCB
• Bill Gates KBE
• Melinda Gates DBE
• Mark Getty KBE
• Paul Getty KBE
• Billy Graham KBE
• J Edgar Hoover KBE
• Bob Hope KBE
• Angelina Jolie DCMG
• Ralph Lauren KBE
• Yehudi Menuhin, Baron Menuhin KBE
• André Previn KBE
• Ronald Reagan GCB
• Dame Marjorie Scardino DBE
• Steven Spielberg KBE

[Carol the Dabbler]

17 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I’m typing from an iPhone (not my own) and the screen keeps freezing when I try to use these emoji’s. Am I alone with this problem?

I have no idea, Herlock.  I have an Android phone.  Are you trying to use the phone's emoties or the Forum's?

Anybody else out there having this problem?

 

[Hikari]

On 9/4/2018 at 4:12 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Having greatly admired the novel Rebecca, I'm interested in seeing some adaptations (and in fact have the Hitchcock/Olivier version at home, though we haven't yet watched it).  Having now read a review of the three adaptations (entitled "Hitchcock got 'Rebecca' dead wrong"), I am particularly keen to see the Brett version!

 

This is for Carol, Inge, t.o.b.y and everyone who was discussing versions of Rebecca two years ago.

We've got this coming up on Oct. 21.  Netflix is on fire lately.  Too bad about that Cuties controversy . . and also them getting involved with Harry and Meghan.  Both of these items make me look askance at this company's business practices.  However, I can't deny that they've got the resources to make some really great stuff.  

Cast:  Lily James as the second Mrs. de Winter.  Excellent casting.  Equally excellent, Kristen Scott Thomas as Mrs. Danvers.  Dame Judith Anderson owns this part, but Ms. Scott-Thomas looks like she will be chilling too, in a more grounded, less Grand Guignol parody sort of way.  Anderson was Dani come to life from the pages of the novel, but nobody could be that much of a cartoon villain and not give her/himself away immediately.  (Anderson's Mrs. Danvers is a sort of female Moriarty in her aesthetic.)  Armie Hammer plays Max deWinter, and he is definitely more strapping and considerably younger than we've ever seen before.  Armie is definitely easy on the eyes, and huge (6'5"), so physically, he can present an either protective or threatening demeanor which will serve the ambiguous Max very well . . but at 34, he is only 3 years older than his co-star.  Lily is 31, but looks much younger, and can easily pass for the 24 that Mrs. deWinter is supposed to be.  In the book, Maxim is supposed to be near 40, making the age gap between the Continental widower and the shy young ladies' companion nearly 15 years.  Since Max has a very paternalistic manner with his new young wife, if he's almost a generation ahead of her that makes sense.  It will sit a bit less well on a man who is nearly the same age, and I don't know if Armie has the heft for the part, despite his physical size.  But this certainly looks like a very stylish and expensive ride.  

In terms of differing versions, though I am very fond of Hitchcock's Rebecca for its atmosphere, the leads are a bit problematic.  Joan Fontaine has the tentativeness of an ingenue in her first starring role, but even dressed down, she is so beautiful, it's quite silly to suggest that she lacks self-confidence on account of being 'plain'.  The camera loves her face and she wears ball gowns like a model.  Laurence Olivier has Maxim's autocratic manner down pat and he was considered good-looking, wearing a mustache to make himself look older.  Sir Larry is urbane but doesn't really exude a butch aura, and Maxim should have a very masculine presentation.  My pick for top Maxim is Charles Dance in the 1997 version opposite Emilia Fox.  Miss Fox was fresh out of drama school and was 23, doing her first role, so she was age-appropriate, though in the case of this duo, the age gap was so large, Maxim almost came across as a pedophile.  (Dance was 50).  In a lovely bit of casting synchronicity, Emilia stepped into the shoes of the role played by her mother, Joanna David 18 years previously opposite Jeremy Brett.  Joanna looked quite young for her age, but seeing as she was a 33-year-old mother of a 5-year old at the time, she seems a bit too self-possessed and mature for the heroine.  She looked very lovely, and has a low and pleasant speaking voice and some of that quality shines through in her daughter, though Em's presentation was a lot more awkward.   Mrs. de W. is modeled on Jane Eyre, and it's always a tricky balance to strike between girlish naivete and romantic infatuation of her employer, her feeling  of 'plainness' and social awkwardness amongst the upper classes with the inner steel and intelligence--and beauty that was always there that captivates this much older and more worldly man.

I recently saw Jeremy Brett's turn.  Very different to Sherlock Holmes, and I struggled a little to see him acting so angry and almost sadistic at times.  SH's twinges of these emotions were construed as more good-natured.  This version, and the Dance one suffer from the made-for-TV budgets and technology of their time.  I'd have dearly liked to see both Dance and Brett have a crack at this role on the big screen.  

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

4 hours ago, Hikari said:

I recently saw Jeremy Brett's turn.  Very different to Sherlock Holmes, and I struggled a little to see him acting so angry and almost sadistic at times.  SH's twinges of these emotions were construed as more good-natured. 

If it's any help, just remember that his Freddie Eynsford-Hill was even less angry and sadistic! 

 

[Hikari]

12 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

If it's any help, just remember that his Freddie Eynsford-Hill was even less angry and sadistic! 

 

Freddie was a sweetheart.  They did not allow JB to do his own singing, which he always felt deprived about.  He had a wonderful voice, that I think would have been more suitable for Freddie.  JB's voice would have had a more youthful quality whereas the guy that dubbed him sounded much older and more bombastic.

[HerlockSholmes]

Was he as good a singer as Nigel Bruce Hikari?

[Carol the Dabbler]

2 hours ago, Hikari said:

They did not allow JB to do his own singing, which he always felt deprived about.  He had a wonderful voice, that I think would have been more suitable for Freddie.

I too was quite disappointed when (after seeing his Holmes series) I discovered, in fairly rapid succession, that A} Jeremy Brett had also played Freddie, but that B} his singing had been dubbed.  The DVD extras (on our set, at least) include the Wouldn't it Be Loverly number with Audrey Hepburn's original soundtrack, but alas no similar inclusion of Brett's soundtrack for On the Street Where You Live.

Where is it that you've heard him sing?

By the way, Alex and I thought they should have used Hepburn's voice for the early numbers, and Marni Nixon's dubbing only for the later, more refined numbers.  Nixon made a point of matching her dubbing voice to the actress's own voice (seeing herself as sort of a vocal stunt woman), so there would have been no noticeable discrepancy.

 

[Artemis]

12 hours ago, Hikari said:

We've got this coming up on Oct. 21.

  What a weird coincidence!  Just a few days ago I was randomly thinking to myself, “I wish someone would make another adaption of ‘Rebecca’.”  I’m excited about this!  I loved the novel and I’ve seen the 1940 adaption many times.

 

[Hikari]

18 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I too was quite disappointed when (after seeing his Holmes series) I discovered, in fairly rapid succession, that A} Jeremy Brett had also played Freddie, but that B} his singing had been dubbed.  The DVD extras (on our set, at least) include the Wouldn't it Be Loverly number with Audrey Hepburn's original soundtrack, but alas no similar inclusion of Brett's soundtrack for On the Street Where You Live.

Where is it that you've heard him sing?

By the way, Alex and I thought they should have used Hepburn's voice for the early numbers, and Marni Nixon's dubbing only for the later, more refined numbers.  Nixon made a point of matching her dubbing voice to the actress's own voice (seeing herself as sort of a vocal stunt woman), so there would have been no noticeable discrepancy.

 

To add insult to injury, the studio let Audrey record Eliza's numbers, recording secretly with Marni Nixon, until informing Miss Hepburn at the last minute that her singing would not be used.  A dirty trick.  No reason to assume that a similar stunt wasn't pulled on JB, though Freddie had fewer songs.  Jeremy could sing very well, having studied voice during his training, but as he was only 'an actor who sang' as opposed to a 'singer who acts' (Ms. Nixon would qualify, since they let her into the Sound of Music with a speaking role as one of the nuns) the choice was made to go for professional singers in both cases.  Audrey could sing, too--she did Moon River--but her voice was deemed not up to the vocal demands of the role.  Ironically, of course, they had refused to hire the then-unknown Julie Andrews, who had originated Eliza onstage in favor of a big star who couldn't sing to cast album standards.  Julie had done hundreds of performances with Rex Harrison (who didn't sing either, but no such problems for him) and they were already comfortable working together.  Hiring Hepburn for her marquee name and then deceiving her about using her singing was just low.   Hepburn's costumes as Eliza are iconic, but one wonders what might have happened if the studio had taken a risk on Andrews.  Julie was destined to be a star no matter what--but her breakout role as Mary Poppins required her to wear an unflattering brunette wig.   If Hepburn and Nixon had done Mary Poppins instead and Andrews had been given My Fair Lady . . how might have each film turned out?Hepburn had already established a reputation as a refined lady from the upper class, or at least aspiring to it--Roman Holiday; Sabrina--and while she is quite charming as Eliza Doolittle, I feel perhaps the 'guttersnipe' portions are a bit forced.  Eliza's transformation might have been more surprising and therefore effective if Julie Andrews--now an equally iconic 'lady', but back then, an unknown quantity--had played her.

And without question, Jeremy should have been allowed to sing Freddie's songs.

[Hikari]

18 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Was he as good a singer as Nigel Bruce Hikari?

Haha.  Better, I should think.

Judge for yourself!

 

[HerlockSholmes]

I can suggest another singing Holmes but for some reason I can’t post a link at the moment but if you go on to YouTube and type in The Wizards Dream. It’s Christopher Lee singing with Italian heavy metal band Rhapsody Of Fire.

[HerlockSholmes]

As most will probably know Jeremy Brett and Edward Hardwick appeared in a play called The Secret Of Sherlock Holmes. Sadly it was never filmed but it’s available here to listen to.

 

https://jgkeegan.com/sh/secsh.htm#learn

[Carol the Dabbler]

Also, the script used to be available on Amazon US [here], and you can still read the description and reviews.

[HerlockSholmes]

On the subject of Brett. If anyone wants a brilliant book covering Brett’s entire career I’d recommend Jeremy Brett: playing A Part by Maureen Whittaker. It’s A4 size and around 450 pages. Loads of photo’s of course. Mine is the black and white version but there is a colour version. Hardcover is around £45 so not cheap. You’re probably not going to get the soft cover very much under £25 unless your lucky. I’m glad I got mine though. It’s the first time that I’ve seen photos (2 of them) of Brett playing Watson. One is taken on stage, the other is a publicity shot with Heston as Holmes. I didn’t know that Brett had auditioned for the part of James Bond after Connery quit but Lazenby got the part instead? I also didn’t know that there was a bit of a movement of people who wanted Brett as Dr Who. Sadly Brett was on the New Years Honours List but his name was removed when he died! Ellen Dean who was a make-up artist on the series, and a BAFTA member, nominated Brett for a BAFTA award and when he didn’t get it she resigned her membership. I know I’m biased but he should have been recognised. It’s a disgrace that he wasn’t IMO. 

[Arcadia]

On 3/11/2021 at 6:54 PM, HerlockSholmes said:

Sadly Brett was on the New Years Honours List but his name was removed when he died!

What is the New Years Honours List and why was he removed?

And did Brett receive any kind of (official) recognition at all for his role as Holmes? As revered as he is by contemporary viewers, you would think so.

I may have said this before, but I have fond memories of watching the Brett series with my Dad, who was a big fan. I remember him telling me he liked it especially because of how they treated the character of Watson. I think I was a little shocked to learn that the Nigel Bruce version wasn't the definitive version.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

What is the New Years Honours List

That's the people the Queen is planning to grant various titles to (e.g., Sir or Dame) on New Year's Day.  It's possible to decline, but I don't think many people do.  There's also an Honours List for her official birthday in June.

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

and why was he removed?

He died in September.  You'd think there'd be some sort of provision for honoring deceased people, but apparently not.

6 hours ago, Arcadia said:

my Dad ... was a big fan. I remember him telling me he liked it especially because of how they treated the character of Watson.

I agree!

My father poo-pooed the idea that anyone could play Holmes better than Rathbone -- until he actually watched Brett!

 

[HerlockSholmes]

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

What is the New Years Honours List and why was he removed?

And did Brett receive any kind of (official) recognition at all for his role as Holmes? As revered as he is by contemporary viewers, you would think so.

I may have said this before, but I have fond memories of watching the Brett series with my Dad, who was a big fan. I remember him telling me he liked it especially because of how they treated the character of Watson. I think I was a little shocked to learn that the Nigel Bruce version wasn't the definitive version.  

Hi Arcadia,

Its simply a list announced every New Year (they also make awards on the Queen’s birthday) of people who have been given awards such as Knighthoods KBE (where you become Sir something) or, if you’re a woman you become a Dame DBE (like Judy Dench) Then there are awards like OBE (The Most Excellent Order Of The British Empire - they haven’t noticed that the Empire has gone yet😃) The MBE (Member Of The Order Of The British Empire) or the CBE (Commander Of The Most Excellent Order Of The British Empire)

They’re based on the old heraldic orders of chivalry. Knight and Dame are the highest. The CBE, then OBE then MBE.

CBE - The CBE is awarded to individuals for having a prominent role at national level, or a leading role at regional level. CBEs are also awarded for distinguished and innovative contribution to any area

OBE - The OBE is awarded to individuals who have made major contributions at a local level, or whose work has gained a national profile

MBE - The MBE is awarded for an outstanding achievement or service to the community which has had a long-term, significant impact.

Thats without going into Baron’s, Esrl’s, Viscount’s etc. It’s pretty complicated (even for us) That’s 2000 + years of history for you.🙂

[HerlockSholmes]

12 hours ago, Arcadia said:

What is the New Years Honours List and why was he removed?

And did Brett receive any kind of (official) recognition at all for his role as Holmes? As revered as he is by contemporary viewers, you would think so.

I may have said this before, but I have fond memories of watching the Brett series with my Dad, who was a big fan. I remember him telling me he liked it especially because of how they treated the character of Watson. I think I was a little shocked to learn that the Nigel Bruce version wasn't the definitive version.  

No, Brett never received any recognition apart from people saying that he was the finest Holmes ever. It’s good that there are people pushing for recognition for him. It would be a case of better late than never. He was also universally well liked too of course.