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On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:21 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's not pushing, that's encouraging.  Students can switch classes or even drop out.  Shoppers can go elsewhere.  So can worshippers.  But, short of packing up and moving, we're stuck with the government.  Furthermore, if students, shoppers, or worshippers  ignore the teachers, merchants, or clergy, there will be no punishment (at least not in this lifetime).  Whereas if you try to ignore the government, they'll come after you -- financially and even physically.

I have to admit, I think here we're mostly debating semantics. It's encouragement only if it's something you want to do anyway, isn't it? But if you don't want to do it, I bet it feels like pushing.

But I admit there's a matter of degree involved; the consequences of refusing to learn are pretty bad, but the consequences of breaking the law are (potentially, at least) worse. And I'd say the consequences of sinning depend on what faith you follow. And shopping … yah, okay, you got me there. Refusing to shop could actually lead to happiness. 😁

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:24 PM, Van Buren Supernova said:

Wow, what a turn out. Do you think he would say that his international supporters exceed Obama's inauguration? 

:rofl: I wondered the same thing. I also hear he was unable to enjoy his golf game. Poor baby.

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I agree, although I think the difference is the player and the scale. Politicians have power with much larger scale, they have the capability to influence the mass. So, if you ask me, the worst kind of human are evil politicians, religious leaders and corporate managements. 

100% agree, and with Trump, we have all three rolled up into one … at least, going by how some of the evangelicals hang on his every word. I'd think I'd throw mass murderers into the mix too, except I'm afraid Trump would then aspire to become one of those as well.... :blink: 

On ‎7‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 3:52 AM, Pseudonym said:

Against Mexico or between us and Scotland? If it's the latter, it's been done before! 

Hadrian's Wall:

170119_hadrians_wall.jpg?itok=8NxsjY8M

Somehow I don't think that's what Trump has in mind. Far too scenic, for one thing.

How tall is that wall, really? From photos it's always looked to me like a hobbit's idea of a wall. :smile: 

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Well yea, we're not overly concerned with keeping the Scottish hordes out these days. Back when it was built it was a lot more impressive, there were forts and turrets all along it, staffed with garrisons, both infantry and cavalry. It was pretty hardcore. For a wall that's almost 2000 years old I'd say it's held up pretty well. :D

Why couldn't he enjoy his golf game?

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I think here we're mostly debating semantics.

Well, yes and no.  If you drop out of college, the university isn't going to send their security squad after you.  If you stop going to church, you will not be physically dragged back.  Likewise if you stop shopping at the local grocery, or if you quit your job.  But if you decide you don't want to be a soldier any more, or you have better things to do than attend your tax audit....

Government is the only organization that can physically force you to do things you don't want to do, or physically prevent you from doing things that you'd like to do.  That's what I meant by "pushing people around."  It's the fundamental reason we have governments, and often it's a good thing, like when the nice cop stops someone from weaving in and out of traffic at 90 miles an hour.

 

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2 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Why couldn't he enjoy his golf game?

Protestors, apparently. I can't find the article anymore, maybe it was fake news.

46 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Government is the only organization that can physically force you to do things you don't want to do, or physically prevent you from doing things that you'd like to do.  That's what I meant by "pushing people around."  It's the fundamental reason we have governments, and often it's a good thing, like when the nice cop stops someone from weaving in and out of traffic at 90 miles an hour.

So if I may pose your own questions again: "What kind of a person applies for a job the basic purpose of which is to push other people around?  (And how many of them actually believe their own claims that they merely want to "help"?)" (Emphasis mine.)

Maybe I over-interpreted your statements, but the reason I keep pushing back :smile: is because the phrases I highlighted indicated to me a disapproval of anyone associated with the government, simply because they are in government. I hear a lot of that from my fellow Americans (and others), but I find it rather unfair. I don't find that a whole lot different than demonizing Muslims just because they're Muslims, or reporters because they're in the media, or whoever the scapegoat of the day is.

Having said that, I do recognize that "power corrupts" etc. has a solid foundation in history. But I just can't find it in me to accept that it's universally true. I've known people who say that makes me naïve. I know I think of those people as cynical. Maybe history will eventually prove one of us right. (But I doubt it.)

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27 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

... the phrases I highlighted indicated to me a disapproval of anyone associated with the government, simply because they are in government.

Nope.  Though I will admit to being a bit leery of them on that account.  I simply meant that I sure wouldn't want a job like that, telling people they must do this and they mustn't do that.  The people who do seek such jobs must have a higher tolerance for it than I do.  Some of them let that power over others go to their heads, and those are the ones I disapprove of.

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Yeah, lord knows there's plenty of them. Not just in government, seems to me the worst perps always come from business. Think they own people. Eccch.

 

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Then there's the guy in our development who volunteered to coordinate our road maintenance.  It seems to have brought out his inner nazi.

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Not just in government, seems to me the worst perps always come from business. Think they own people.

I forgot to say, it's even worse when they team up and scratch each other's backs -- e.g., the pharmaceutical industry with the Food and Drug Administration, or agribusiness with the Department of Agriculture.  They damn near *do* own us then.  :(

 

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2 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Brings to mind this interesting article The 10 professions with the most psychopaths. Civil Servant is at number 10. 

That article linked to one that linked to one (and so on) that gives a psychopath checklist.  Find out if you're one!  Find out if your boss is one!  Find out if Sherlock really is one!

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6 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

Brings to mind this interesting article The 10 professions with the most psychopaths. Civil Servant is at number 10. 

Well, that certainly hits all the clichés!

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That article linked to one that linked to one (and so on) that gives a psychopath checklist.  Find out if you're one!  Find out if your boss is one!  Find out if Sherlock really is one!

I think I ranked about an 8 on that thing. (And no, I'm not saying which ones I scored on!) I placed Sherlock somewhere under 20 … of course, I'm assuming that he's faking it when he pretends not to care about people. 😁 At any rate, hadn't he already established that he's not a psychopath, but a high functioning sociopath? I seem to remember something about that.....

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8 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

... hadn't he already established that he's not a psychopath, but a high functioning sociopath? 

Most of the articles in that link-fest say there's little if any difference between the two terms.  They also say that psychopaths tend to have little interest in hurting people, so perhaps the stereotype of the psychopathic serial killer comes from sensationalistic novels rather than from life.

But I agree, I don't think Sherlock is either.

Oddly enough, my favorite example of a real-life sociopath only scored something like 21.  Maybe I didn't understand some of the questions -- 'cause if he ain't a sociopath, then the term has no meaning.

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There’s an annoying amount of disagreement out there as to whether psychopaths and sociopaths are the same thing. The main difference, for those who believe there is one, seems to be related to a charming, magnetic personality - which Sherlock doesn’t generally bother to attempt. Moriarty, on the other hand, can probably charm the birds out of the trees when he wants to.

But yes, I agree that Sherlock isn’t one, I think he just uses it to keep people at bay.

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Uhm... I scored 13, and definitely on on marital or one-night stand thingy :P 

1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:

There’s an annoying amount of disagreement out there as to whether psychopaths and sociopaths are the same thing. The main difference, for those who believe there is one, seems to be related to a charming, magnetic personality - which Sherlock doesn’t generally bother to attempt. Moriarty, on the other hand, can probably charm the birds out of the trees when he wants to.

I think Sherlock does that when he wants and needs something. To Molly in TBB for example. I actually think I do that as well, to get what I want. But for me, it would be very specific need and purpose, and only on strangers when I only need to have contact one or two times. A lot of things like administrative, those nitty gritty unpleasant stuffs when you really rely on subjectivity of the other person, I tend to turn this on to make my life easier, and it works. This applies to area when the other person can make your life hellish without breaking the law. For example, there was a time when I got into trouble through immigration to another country. Apparently they didn't like my nose, I didn't dress well and too tired to look pleasant (back then I worked seven days a week). They held me in the 'interrogation' room, questioned everything that I had, demanding to know every single things  I did or would do and asked me to submit a letter from relative staying there to make sure I wouldn't be a bum or murderer in the country. The week after, I showed up with nicer attire, went through the same line, gesture at the right time and she didn't even remember me nor need my letter and was even pleasant to me. Same thing with work, some difficult people with authority to certain place, for example, warehouse or research lab, could make your life a living hell if they decide they don't like you,  eventhough they are supposed to help you, but with the right tune, above the original purpose, I was also invited to secretive classified area and classified event and scoop.

However, I limit this to things I need and consider harmless, again, to make my life easier, and to somewhat strangers. For people I know, there is no way I could maintain it or being sincere, therefore they almost never see that side of me, well unless, we are in something together and there is a need for that. Like another example, when our destination airport was closed and flight was cancelled. We had connecting flight and activity on very tight schedule. With some maneuver, right person and right timing, I was able to get into the next earliest flight available where we could still keep our schedule and we were on the way to complimentary hotel while the rest of the passengers were still yelling at the representatives. Persistence and stubbornness are not something unusual to people I know, and that is how I normally do things, but they were surprised when I use 'pleasant and attentive' card.

I also like to make people sing like a canary and it seems easier for me to dig secrets when I need to. While it contributes and could be one of the traits, I don't think it's psychopathy though, unless it's combined with the destructive ones to form a destructive behavior, or is it psychopathy when you justify that it's not? :angel:

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When he does it it's very brief and honestly, if Molly didn't fancy him, not very believable. It's like when he charms his way into that woman's flat in TBB, it's two sentences, I don't think he has the interest to maintain it for long. 

I think everyone adjusts their behaviour (and occasionally appearance) in some way to get the result they want, I don't think that's psychopathy, it's just human nature. 

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I'm convinced I have schizoid personality disorder, since I hit pretty much all the markers. Just did a personality test and it came out as 'very high' on there. 'Borderline' came out as high, but I don't think that fits me at all. 'Dependent' came out as very low, lol!

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv

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8 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I'm convinced I have schizoid personality disorder, since I hit pretty much all the markers. Just did a personality test and it came out as 'very high' on there. 'Borderline' came out as high, but I don't think that fits me at all. 'Dependent' came out as very low, lol!

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/personality_disorder_test.mv

I tried that one and it said I was "avoidant". I agree that I have avoidant traits but I highly doubt I have a full-blown personality disorder. 

As for Sherlock, I agree - not a psychopath. But again, he exhibits some traits belonging to that spectrum. 

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Isn't that what they say about all of us?

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I tried that questionnaire, but couldn't get past the first question.  How the heck should I know how my feelings compare to those of other people?  :huh:

 

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:D

Don't remember the first question.

Failed to connet the link numerous times.

Screenshot_2018-07-19-07-09-07_1.jpg

Funny error message though. Genetic error? What's wrong with my genes? :p

Anyway, I got schizoid too, this is the first time I hear about the term.

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Good god!!

I swear I thought it was genetic a couple of times until I decided to screenshot it. :O

How I felt dejecfed and mocked since the start of the day... tsk tsk...

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