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Guest Message by DevFuse

Lifting The Ban on Series Four Spoilers.

As it has now been a decent amount of time since the airing of series 4 of Sherlock we feel it is prudent to relax the ban on discussion of series 4 episodes in the general Sherlock discussion areas.

We would ask that members continue to keep within the bounds of topic titles and subjects, in order to make it easier for people to choose which discussions they wish to view.

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Why does "Blind Banker" bother some people?


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152 replies to this topic

#141 Carol the Dabbler

Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 08:01 AM

Maybe I didn't phrase it clearly, but I certainly didn't mean to say that I don't think things are getting better. They're clearly better, at least in some ways, than before. What I did mean was that I think a lot of time and effort has been wasted on attempts that have not been part of that improvement. I believe I was agreeing with what you said about it not being easy.

Also, I believe you're taking what I say about the blatantly anti-white-male system that's in place at a company in my area and applying it to what may well be a far more sensible system that you're familiar with. I seriously doubt that you would be in favor of, as an extreme example, firing all the white males so their jobs could be given to black females. And if I'm right about that, then you agree with me that it's possible to take things too far (even though we may disagree about exactly where the line is).

I agree with you on TBB.
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-- Carol

 


#142 bedelia1984

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 02:27 PM

 

I can't help thinking one of the major causes in the pay gap is the way certain kinds of work are valued by society. The roles that more women opt to fill- in healthcare, as nurses and teaching, especially nursery and primary, are just not valued in the same way that roles more men opt to fill are valued. Or, maybe it is more accurate to say that these roles are so necessary that there is a greater abundance of opportunities for them than other more specialised jobs that men may outnumber women in- and the lack of specialisation is what is leading to the lower value?

I seem to remember something about that, too. Not so much that those things are less valued by society, but they are less valued by men; i.e., the people in power. Boy, this sounds like a real rant against men, doesn't it? :smile: I don't mean it to be; but part of this conversation included a reference to white men having trouble finding jobs because minorities were being favored. Doesn't seem fair, does it? But it didn't feel fair to be passed over simply for being a minority either. That's why society, via government, tried to take steps to change it. Assuming equal opportunity is a goal we can all agree on, I'm just wondering how it can be achieved without also stripping all advantages away from those who traditionally held them.

 

 

My first experience in the full-time workforce was a civil service position, about 15 years ago and my first day of the job, in a male-dominated office, a giggling fifty year old man handed me a picture of a women-only car park, which had cars piled up on top of each other/ crashed etc. And I'd love to say things in the workplace have changed, but I've heard jokes about women drivers in my canteen by higher-up male professionals as recently as about a month ago. It's not that I don't like a good joke as much as the next person, but some jokes are getting really old.

 

There are just so many ways that minorities and women get pushed down- some of them, like hiring policies, you can see, and others, like workplace atmospheres, choices for promotion, and favoritism are invisible. Then, there are all the things that have to happen to get someone an opportunity to begin with- college, networking, family connections and the biggest thing of all, the people in power who hold all the cards and pick the next person to get that chance- and how often they seem to think the best person is as close to them as possible- in gender, race etc. 

 

I don't know it women can be let off the hook in terms of what happens to other women in the workplace though- I've only read the most popular books on the issue- like 'Lean in', for example, but what I got from that book was that women who want to succeed have to play the game a different way to get ahead- like a man can ask for a raise and people  (the men and women in charge) think that's fair, but a woman asking for more will be judged and disliked, and to succeed you have to say you're asking on behalf of all women and future female candidates- so asking for yourself will make you disliked by both male and female bosses. So Sandberg, the author, is saying based on studies she'd read, forget equality, and act this part if you want to succeed, because expecting equal treatment will just end in your own failure.

 

I haven't read how that sort of thinking can apply in other situations- like race issues. In Ireland, we have great social welfare, so a lot of the same Irish people complaining about having their jobs taken by foreign nationals tend to also prefer not to apply for lower paid jobs when the welfare payments plus rent allowance and other benefits outstrip the minimum wage. Likewise, conditions for nurses are so poor that Irish citizens go abroad and we have more minorities in these roles too.


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#143 Carol the Dabbler

Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 12 August 2017 - 06:29 PM

Regardless of how things are set up, people will play the system. They'll do whatever is in their own self interest.
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-- Carol

 


#144 Arcadia

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 12:45 PM

Maybe I didn't phrase it clearly, but I certainly didn't mean to say that I don't think things are getting better. They're clearly better, at least in some ways, than before. What I did mean was that I think a lot of time and effort has been wasted on attempts that have not been part of that improvement. I believe I was agreeing with what you said about it not being easy.

Also, I believe you're taking what I say about the blatantly anti-white-male system that's in place at a company in my area and applying it to what may well be a far more sensible system that you're familiar with. I seriously doubt that you would be in favor of, as an extreme example, firing all the white males so their jobs could be given to black females. And if I'm right about that, then you agree with me that it's possible to take things too far (even though we may disagree about exactly where the line is).

I agree with you on TBB.

 

You're right, I wouldn't find that acceptable. I strongly suspect it would also be found to be highly illegal and easily prosecuted by the EEOC. But I also agree that no system is perfect, that's why they need to evolve. But too often the desired solution appears to me to be to throw the baby out with the bath water.

 

Personally, I think the employment future's going to involve a lot of sacrifice; such as career changes, postponed retirements, long distance moves ... the works. I guess that doesn't bother me as much as it might some people because it's been that way for me all my life; job (and location) changes have been the only constant. Not always in the job that I have, but also in what I do in any given job; it's constantly morphing. Ten years ago I would never have imagined I would spend as much time on a computer as I now do, for example. But I like learning new things, so it works for me. (Although it's sure taking me longer to learn new things; ak!)


It's this, or Cluedo.

#145 Carol the Dabbler

Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:05 PM

Change is the order of the day, that's for sure!  A few years back, I got the definite feeling that the future had arrived -- and now we're way past even that point.  There's no way I could get a job with the software skills that stood me in good stead just a few years ago, and I imagine a whole lot of people are in similar boats, in all sorts of fields.

 

I'm sitting here trying to think of a job that hasn't changed recently and isn't likely to change in the near future.  Haven't come up with one yet.  Home health care, maybe -- though I wouldn't bet money on it.


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-- Carol

 


#146 T.o.b.y

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 07:56 PM

It sure bothers me... Not having to keep learning new stuff, I like that part, but all the uncertainty, insecurity, being required to move around a lot, short term contracts, fear of the family being torn apart or hard pressed financially because both parents couldn't find work in the same area, no real sense of home...

I am a Hobbit at heart. I want my little cave-type cottage in a quiet little village with most of my friends and relatives in walking distance and one peaceful day like the next until I die. No idea why I am not a political conservative :-D
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"All lives end - all hearts are broken" / "The East Wind takes us all in the end"

#147 Boton

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 12:55 PM

At least in the US, I think we are slowly moving toward more of a self-employment economy.  Rightly or wrongly, companies are shifting the burden for health insurance premiums onto employees (smaller ones, by keeping their workforce under 50 people), and it is a savings for the company also to hire contractors so the company doesn't have to pay the social security match.  Employees, for their part, are demanding more flexibility of schedule and more telecommuting options, which is good.  So, as these things happen, it is natural to have a dispersed, contingent workforce. 

 

The relationship with affirmative action is that, unless you are dealing with government imposed quotas/goals, a contingent workforce has less pressure to be crafted into a visibly diverse picture because it is always shifting.  There is less pressure to worry if this project has all women on the team or that one has less visible diversity, because the team will break up and another will form, and maybe the next one will be all old Latino men or something.  That structure, to me, would feel fair -- construct the team you need, and let more control come back to the employees.

 

(I also agree with Carol above that another important way to address diversity issues is to improve schools and access to education.  But politicians hate "pipeline problems" because any solutions don't really show results for 20 years.)

 

TBB?  Yeah, TBB.  I really like TBB, honestly.  I like it even more now that it sparked a really robust discussion we all can learn something from.

 

 

 

 


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#148 Carol the Dabbler

Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 02:41 PM

Since I realized, back a few pages, that since the athletic intruder with small feet was apparently based on a character in Conan Doyle's "Sign of the Four," he had presumably killed Van Coon and Lukis for his own reasons rather than on Shan's orders, I like the episode considerably better than I did, because that fills in what I've considered the biggest plot hole (namely, why would Shan have those two men killed if one of them was the only person in the world who knew where the jade hairpin was).

Now what other plot holes can we tackle? :D
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-- Carol

 


#149 Arcadia

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Posted 14 August 2017 - 03:17 PM

It sure bothers me... Not having to keep learning new stuff, I like that part, but all the uncertainty, insecurity, being required to move around a lot, short term contracts, fear of the family being torn apart or hard pressed financially because both parents couldn't find work in the same area, no real sense of home...

I am a Hobbit at heart. I want my little cave-type cottage in a quiet little village with most of my friends and relatives in walking distance and one peaceful day like the next until I die. No idea why I am not a political conservative :-D

 

Because that is not a political ideal, but a personal one? :smile: The older I get, the more pleasant that sounds to me, too. But even a few years ago the thought of it bored me silly. Actually, now that I think about it, I have a life pretty similar to that when I'm on vacation in Maine ... and a few more weeks of it and I'd be going out of my mind with boredom. Ok, never mind, I'd still rather be an elf. :D


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It's this, or Cluedo.

#150 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 05:29 AM

I think I'm a Took. I like to stay at home -- except when I feel like traveling!
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-- Carol

 


#151 T.o.b.y

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:34 AM

I think I'm a Took. I like to stay at home -- except when I feel like traveling!

Oh, I like to travel, but the "back again" part is very important. I love coming home. Learning that "home" is where the heart (the family) is and not necessarily a place has been hard for me. So I plan to hold on to the family tooth and nail and get very upset when they tell us we need to be more "flexible". Sorry, I didn't get married to be flexible about my home life. We were long distance for years and he still has an insane commute to work. Then the ultra conservatives come and tell me it's my fault for daring to want an education and a job too, totally ignoring that most people nowadays just cannot afford to raise children on only one income - heck, some can't even support themselves on that. Besides, what if my husband loses his job or becomes unable to work? Shouldn't I, you know, be able to fulfill the marriage promise and take care of him?

It infuriates me how women are still told their careers are a selfish luxury. Yeah, I feel so indulged dragging my ass out of bed at the crack of dawn to go work overtime so I can fulfill my responsibility to myself and my family and contribute to society a bit. Right.

Not that I think being a homemaker is bad (for either / any gender). If you can afford it, good for you! Just for most of us, that's not the reality we live in.

Whew, sorry, what a rant. Wrong thread. It's election time around here and all the political babble is getting to me. I honestly don't know who to vote for, it seems like one half of the candidates is telling me to sever all ties and become a perfectly disposable slave to the workforce (i.e. tax generator) and the other half is telling me to stay home and do dishes. Oh, and also shut up. And the only party that seriously addresses my main concerns like for example the cost of living skyrocketing while incomes remain more or less stable is a bunch of loonies.

Soooo... Ahem. Back to Sherlock. I understand why The Blind Banker bothers some people and why the Chinese stereotypes are considered offensive but I still like the episode because it's very Doyle-ish and I for one just really like Soo Lin.
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"All lives end - all hearts are broken" / "The East Wind takes us all in the end"

#152 Arcadia

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 11:34 AM

Yeah, what is it with politics these days? The loonies seem to be everywhere. I was just reading some more about the white supremacists in Charlottesville, VA. Now that is racism. Scary people, it's quite disheartening to see them crawl out from under the woodwork. But maybe getting them out into the light is a good thing, in its way; too easy to believe they don't really exist, otherwise. *sigh* 


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It's this, or Cluedo.

#153 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 15 August 2017 - 06:35 PM

One thing I find reassuring is that the blatant white supremacists I am personally acquainted with are thoroughly disagreeable people in general -- the "it's all about me" type that has no consideration for anyone else, regardless of color.  There's one living on each side of us, and nobody else in the neighborhood can stand either of them, even though many of the other neighbors are what a lot of city folks would think of as "rednecks."


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-- Carol