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I wonder whether it really did cost her that much!

 

How "nice" is Molly really? I think we tend to think of her as a very good, kind person with lots of empathy but what evidence do we actually have?

 

I suspect she has more in common with Sherlock than it may appear.

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That's a great question.  Personally, I might be conflating "shy" with "empathetic," and those don't always go together.

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In her work, she must be able to at least control, preferably deactivate at will, what empathy she has. She sees murder victims, suicides, probably also the aftermath of sexual violence. Horrible accidents. Fatal diseases. Early deaths. She can't be too mushy gushy or else she wouldn't be able to function in the morgue.

 

We know that she is very intuitive and empathetic around Sherlock, she can tell when he's not okay or when he is lying. But that might be the effect of love rather than personality.

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Would Molly have been around John or mrs. H? Isn’t Sherlock the common thread there? I mean how good of friends was she with them around the time of TRF? Also I thought John basically left. Wasn’t mrs h mad that he wasn’t around those two years? Not sure about Molly and Lestrade maybe it would have depended on if they were on the same case. I just don’t how much lying directly to them she really had to do.

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In the script Janine have been aware that the marriage was never going to happen. She clearly says so.

 

There's still the question of when  she became aware of that though, isn't there?  It's not clear (at least to me) if she knew all along that Sherlock would never marry her (or that she would never marry Sherlock), or if it's only something she's realized afterwards, in hindsight.  (Granted, I haven't read the script, so maybe I'm missing something.)

 

I think on my initial viewing of the scene, I just thought those lines were a bit of banter, like when I hear people say something like,

 

"When are you going to _____?"

"When the Vikings win the Super Bowl."

"But that's never going to happen!"

 

 

That was totally my reading of the scene too. I thought Janine was saying that in retrospect that obviously wasn't going to happen.

 

 

... In essence i thought they were using each other from the very beginning but had fun doing it which is why I never took any of it seriously.

 

 

Part of the reason this doesn't sit well with me is the exchange between Janine and Sherlock about sex- where she mentions it would have been nice (I think?) and he says he was saving himself  for marriage (right before the other exchange we've interpreted differently about how it wasn't going to happen). I actually can't believe he was enough of a cad to make a marriage joke to her after the fake engagement too! Geez.

 

I'm just reading Ariana DeVere's transcript and semi-seething at some of the Moffatisms:

 

JANINE (looking angrily at him): Sherlock Holmes, you are a back-stabbing, heartless, manipulative bastard.

(Sherlock presses the button on a remote on the bed and the top of his bed rises, pushing him into more of a sitting position.)

SHERLOCK: And you – as it turns out – are a grasping, opportunistic, publicity-hungry tabloid whore.

 

How can he possibly call her an opportunistic tabloid whore (!!!!!!), when he was the true opportunist? And the way they have Janine partly play it off as in 'we're good'- though she does adjust his morphine, and good for her, in my view, that's total, Moffat, she probably went off and shagged someone 101. Ugh.

 

To me- if we take Janine at her word, and for one I do think she's sincere, this makes her a bit vulnerable- she was spending time with him and wanted something physical, and he wasn't being forthcoming, but she was still interested in him, as a person, enough to be spending time with him. To me, that's someone who wants a relationship with a person, not just a bit of fun. They had a bit of a rapport at the wedding, so I don't see it as beyond the realm of possibility if she was thinking they could get on well enough to date or have a relationship. To me, she didn't act like she wanted to use him at all.

 

I don't buy that her boss was paying her off to do it- she was afraid of Magnussen, according to him, so if he had intimidated her into seeing Sherlock, I just don't see her having fun with that, and looking for something more in a physical sense- Magnussen being involved would turn that idea into near- prostitution, it would make everything creepy.

 

I wonder whether it really did cost her that much!

 

How "nice" is Molly really? I think we tend to think of her as a very good, kind person with lots of empathy but what evidence do we actually have?

 

I suspect she has more in common with Sherlock than it may appear.

 

It's very interesting to consider this.

 

Molly is a good friend to both Sherlock and John- we see this when they need her help. So she's nice like that. Socially, it seems like she often tries too hard, and doesn't know how to act normally- like at the party, or telling Sherlock about 'Jim from IT'- I feel like the more normal she tries to make herself seem, the weirder she seems- but of course, I like her for it.

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I don't buy that her boss was paying her off to do it- she was afraid of Magnussen, according to him, so if he had intimidated her into seeing Sherlock, I just don't see her having fun with that, and looking for something more in a physical sense- Magnussen being involved would turn that idea into near- prostitution, it would make everything creepy.

All Magnussen had to is say when you meet Sherlock Holmes at the wedding see what you can find out about him. That doesn’t have to be anything about sex just simply befriending like Mary and Janine did since Magnussen is always looking for information on people which should come as no surprise if she’s his assistant. It could be that after she met Sherlock that she liked him and the rest was her choice. I’ve seen that storyline on several shows and movies. Mr and Mrs Smith had a very similar storyline, for example.
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In her work, she must be able to at least control, preferably deactivate at will, what empathy she has. She sees murder victims, suicides, probably also the aftermath of sexual violence. Horrible accidents. Fatal diseases. Early deaths. She can't be too mushy gushy or else she wouldn't be able to function in the morgue.

I’m not convinced that the degree of control one has over their empathy necessarily correlates with how empathetic they are, though. Many people in helping professions have empathy that they must compartmentalize, in order to be of service. Some people can’t compartmentalize, but again, I’m not sure that necessarily indicates they have more empathy than those who can.

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I don't buy that her boss was paying her off to do it- she was afraid of Magnussen, according to him, so if he had intimidated her into seeing Sherlock, I just don't see her having fun with that, and looking for something more in a physical sense- Magnussen being involved would turn that idea into near- prostitution, it would make everything creepy.

All Magnussen had to is say when you meet Sherlock Holmes at the wedding see what you can find out about him. That doesn’t have to be anything about sex just simply befriending like Mary and Janine did since Magnussen is always looking for information on people which should come as no surprise if she’s his assistant. It could be that after she met Sherlock that she liked him and the rest was her choice. I’ve seen that storyline on several shows and movies. Mr and Mrs Smith had a very similar storyline, for example.

 

 

Again, that doesn't gel with what I saw onscreen- why does Janine make an issue of the fact Sherlock lied to her, if she was doing the same? Especially after he's been exposed in his lies, and their relationship is dead in the water, and there is nothing left to gain by speaking to him? What is the point of that scene at all, if their relationship was just a bit of fun for both of them, if they were both complicit in the dishonesty?

 

I found it a bit unusual that they brought Janine back, actually, and the only reason for it I could see was because it was another time where they realised that actually Sherlock's treatment of a woman was something that couldn't just be brushed off, that he needed to be challenged on it.

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In the script Janine have been aware that the marriage was never going to happen. She clearly says so.

I still stick to my headcanon that she was spying Sherlock on behalf of CAM. She let Sherlock in, because CAM wanted to surprise him and catch him in the act of trying to steal the letters. What Janine didn't know was that at the same time Mary has broken in.

This would have made the most sense given the tone of how the scenes were written and acted.

 

 

Except that it was actually the reverse--it was not random chance that out of all the single girls in London, Sherlock just happened to choose Janine, the personal assistant of CAM, for his concocted romance.  Nor was it complete accident that Janine was Mary's maid of honor--before Sherlock targeted J., the former top-level assassin Mary had targeted her as a source of information about CAM's activities.  Janine, so seemingly self-assured and sassy, was actually the tool/dupe of not one but two highly calculating pseudo-sociopaths . . not to mention being employed by one.

 

In the original story 'Charles Augustus Milverton', Holmes, posing as a workman, gets engaged to CAM's housemaid for the express purpose of gaining access to the study and CAM's safe full of his fodder for blackmail.  Janine is that housemaid, 21st century version.

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All Magnussen had to is say when you meet Sherlock Holmes at the wedding see what you can find out about him. That doesn’t have to be anything about sex just simply befriending like Mary and Janine did since Magnussen is always looking for information on people which should come as no surprise if she’s his assistant. It could be that after she met Sherlock that she liked him and the rest was her choice. I’ve seen that storyline on several shows and movies. Mr and Mrs Smith had a very similar storyline, for example.

 

Again, that doesn't gel with what I saw onscreen- why does Janine make an issue of the fact Sherlock lied to her, if she was doing the same? Especially after he's been exposed in his lies, and their relationship is dead in the water, and there is nothing left to gain by speaking to him? What is the point of that scene at all, if their relationship was just a bit of fun for both of them, if they were both complicit in the dishonesty?

 

 

I agree, but just for the sake of argument ... just because they would have been lying to each other doesn't mean they couldn't have also developed some genuine feelings for each other. And I find that even when a complete stranger lies to me, it still makes me angry. So I can believe Janine would still be hurt by the lying, even if she was doing the same. People aren't very logical, sometimes.

 

But I think if she'd been spying on Sherlock for CAM, they would have said so. Why have a plot point that you never reveal? Especially when it's Moftiss ... they love thinking they've pulled the wool over our eyes! If Janine had been a mole, so to speak, they would have made sure to spring the surprise on the audience at some point, imo.

 

I found it a bit unusual that they brought Janine back, actually, and the only reason for it I could see was because it was another time where they realised that actually Sherlock's treatment of a woman something that couldn't just be brushed off, that he needed to be challenged on it.

I think that's it exactly. Moffat even said as much (in the commentary? Somewhere) -- they needed to leave Sherlock feeling a little bad for what he'd done to her.

 

I suspect Janine fits some sort of male ideal of the "modern woman" ... you can have all the fun you want with her, including sex, with zero strings attached. When you're ready to move on, there's no drama, she just lets you go. (But of course, she's loyal to you while you're together!) And I suppose there actually may be some relationships like that.

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Again, that doesn't gel with what I saw onscreen- why does Janine make an issue of the fact Sherlock lied to her, if she was doing the same? Especially after he's been exposed in his lies, and their relationship is dead in the water, and there is nothing left to gain by speaking to him?

Did they have a relationship? Who proposes or accepts a marriage proposal over an intercom? The whole thing was played like a joke. Maybe it wasn’t intended to be that but that’s what it seemed like to me. Just because she may have been asked to get information on Sherlock before she met him doesn’t mean she couldn’t have thought he was fun or a potential friend with benefits after she met him. I never got the sense that she was in love with him and devastated over what happened but more annoyed that he wasn’t what she thought he was. I doubt Sherlock was his normal jerk self around her considering he was using her for something.

 

Frankly what’s in the ACD original stories doesn’t matter to me because I just go by what I see onscreen when I watch this version. Same thing for me when I watch elementary. I view them as separate works with separate ideas. I both like and dislike aspects of both for reasons that have nothing to do with the other show or how consistent they are with the ACD stories which were set in a completely different era/culture.

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I agree, but just for the sake of argument ... just because they would have been lying to each other doesn't mean they couldn't have also developed some genuine feelings for each other. And I find that even when a complete stranger lies to me, it still makes me angry. So I can believe Janine would still be hurt by the lying, even if she was doing the same. People aren't very logical, sometimes.

 

But I think if she'd been spying on Sherlock for CAM, they would have said so. Why have a plot point that you never reveal? Especially when it's Moftiss ... they love thinking they've pulled the wool over our eyes! If Janine had been a mole, so to speak, they would have made sure to spring the surprise on the audience at some point, imo.

 

 

That's true- she could have been lying and still been angry (though I don't see it in the character or the writing, personally)

 

Added to them loving to lord their cleverness over the fans, there is also that little smidge of Moffat taking some pleasure in having Sherlock act like a cad and get away with it- Sherlock's insults in Scandal, his treatment of Janine- I think there is a small part of Moffat that actually likes the idea of a male hero who can get away with treating women poorly and they still want him- this weird boys will be boys and girls will love them anyway thing, which for me sometimes comes across in his writing. In fact, it's almost like he thinks it's a bit of a Bond-like trait- you know, treat them mean, keep them keen?

 

I'm not a fan of that attitude; it is tempered by other aspects of the show and writing- but it's there. For me, Janine is more irksome that Molly because this is the sum total of how Sherlock deals with her, and it's all bad.

 

 

I suspect Janine fits some sort of male ideal of the "modern woman" ... you can have all the fun you want with her, including sex, with zero strings attached. When you're ready to move on, there's no drama, she just lets you go. (But of course, she's loyal to you while you're together!) And I suppose there actually may be some relationships like that.

 

 

 

Yikes. But yes, Moffat may actually think that. And then you've got Irene, an ideal of a slightly different kind, but again, very much available for whatever men might want, with little insight into what else makes her character tick, or whether she can genuinely enjoy it (as a lesbian?!)

 

 

Again, that doesn't gel with what I saw onscreen- why does Janine make an issue of the fact Sherlock lied to her, if she was doing the same? Especially after he's been exposed in his lies, and their relationship is dead in the water, and there is nothing left to gain by speaking to him?

Did they have a relationship? Who proposes or accepts a marriage proposal over an intercom? 

 

 

They had a relationship, yes, whether it was casual or not is open for interpretation, but they were spending time together, they were affectionate towards each other, she was familiar with his home..

 

And I don't think she accepted, but rather let him upstairs- so maybe she wouldn't have, maybe she thought it was a joke- to me it's one of those scenarios where she was probably incredulous but intrigued- but she liked him and was interested enough to let him in, in a situation where had she been working with Magnussen against Sherlock she surely would have done exactly the opposite?

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I agree, but just for the sake of argument ... just because they would have been lying to each other doesn't mean they couldn't have also developed some genuine feelings for each other. And I find that even when a complete stranger lies to me, it still makes me angry. So I can believe Janine would still be hurt by the lying, even if she was doing the same. People aren't very logical, sometimes.

 

But I think if she'd been spying on Sherlock for CAM, they would have said so. Why have a plot point that you never reveal? Especially when it's Moftiss ... they love thinking they've pulled the wool over our eyes! If Janine had been a mole, so to speak, they would have made sure to spring the surprise on the audience at some point, imo.

 

That's true- she could have been lying and still been angry (though I don't see it in the character or the writing, personally)

 

Added to them loving to lord their cleverness over the fans, there is also that little smidge of Moffat taking some pleasure in having Sherlock act like a cad and get away with it- Sherlock's insults in Scandal, his treatment of Janine- I think there is a small part of Moffat that actually likes the idea of a male hero who can get away with treating women poorly and they still want him- this weird boys will be boys and girls will love them anyway thing, which for me sometimes comes across in his writing. In fact, it's almost like he thinks it's a bit of a Bond-like trait- you know, treat them mean, keep them keen?

 

I'm not a fan of that attitude; it is tempered by other aspects of the show and writing- but it's there. For me, Janine is more irksome that Molly because this is the sum total of how Sherlock deals with her, and it's all bad.

 

 

And I'm still keen enough on him to go "But at least he was enough of a gentleman not to sleep with her!" ;)

 

(And then they have her get all wistful because he didn't ... arrgghhhh! That's when I have to remind myself that the freedom to say that and not be thought a slut is what the generation of women before me fought so hard for....)

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Yes, in a way that (not sleeping with her) redeems him, though arguably he just felt too guilty about what he knew was a lie to take things any further?

 

Because I don't believe he had zero interest in Janine: there was chemistry there. But the fact he didn't sleep with her- perhaps because he'd know she'd feel used later, to me also shows he knew he was in questionable territory.

 

There's still something annoying paternalistic about that- I'll protect her feminine feelings so that she won't feel as used when she finds out I actually did use her for good, logical, manly reasons. Ugh.

 

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Yes, in a way that (not sleeping with her) redeems him, though arguably he just felt too guilty about what he knew was a lie to take things any further?

 

Because I don't believe he had zero interest in Janine: there was chemistry there. But the fact he didn't sleep with her- perhaps because he'd know she'd feel used later, to me also shows he knew he was in questionable territory.

 

There's still something annoying paternalistic about that- I'll protect her feminine feelings so that she won't feel as used when she finds out I actually did use her for good, logical, manly reasons. Ugh.

 

The first time I watched HLV with my husband, I knew what was coming, so I later asked him why he thought Sherlock didn't sleep with Janine.  His interpretation was similar to the above, except he saw it as Sherlock having some morality of his own: he wouldn't cross that line with someone he knew he was using.  So, at least one male opinion was that it was an attempt to be gentlemanly rather than paternalistic.

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Yes, in a way that (not sleeping with her) redeems him, though arguably he just felt too guilty about what he knew was a lie to take things any further?

 

Because I don't believe he had zero interest in Janine: there was chemistry there. But the fact he didn't sleep with her- perhaps because he'd know she'd feel used later, to me also shows he knew he was in questionable territory.

 

There's still something annoying paternalistic about that- I'll protect her feminine feelings so that she won't feel as used when she finds out I actually did use her for good, logical, manly reasons. Ugh.

Yep. Which is why I think you're right on target with your previous remark:

 

I found it a bit unusual that they brought Janine back, actually, and the only reason for it I could see was because it was another time where they realised that actually Sherlock's treatment of a woman was something that couldn't just be brushed off, that he needed to be challenged on it.

His entire treatment of her was horribly presumptuous, he needed to be taken down a peg. But then you're supposed to think she's really cool because she's not that bothered by it. Gah. But it certainly moves her out of the story faster than if she'd been all weepy and threatening to sue his ... ahem, him.

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The first time I watched HLV with my husband, I knew what was coming, so I later asked him why he thought Sherlock didn't sleep with Janine.  His interpretation was similar to the above, except he saw it as Sherlock having some morality of his own: he wouldn't cross that line with someone he knew he was using.  So, at least one male opinion was that it was an attempt to be gentlemanly rather than paternalistic.

 

 

And that's what I thought too ... he was being a gentleman (whilst, at the same time, being a complete arse....) But these days it's getting harder and harder to tell gentlemanliness and paternalism apart ... women are tired of men establishing the rules, I guess, even when the "rules" work in women's favor.

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The first time I watched HLV with my husband, I knew what was coming, so I later asked him why he thought Sherlock didn't sleep with Janine. His interpretation was similar to the above, except he saw it as Sherlock having some morality of his own: he wouldn't cross that line with someone he knew he was using. So, at least one male opinion was that it was an attempt to be gentlemanly rather than paternalistic.

 

And that's what I thought too ... he was being a gentleman (whilst, at the same time, being a complete arse....) But these days it's getting harder and harder to tell gentlemanliness and paternalism apart ... women are tired of men establishing the rules, I guess, even when the "rules" work in women's favor.

What you say is true. I do, though, think this scenario works better for me than the alternative. Having Sherlock sleep with Janine almost under false pretenses (although I think he would have liked it) skirts some “informed consent” issues for me. This is at least a bit more honest.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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Oh yeah, the consent issues would have been crazy. I've already noticed that if you look back at shows from the 90s and watch them in the post #metoo era, consent issues are rife. I've been re-watching The X files and there is at least one clunker when it comes to that. It's amazing how much views have changed since then.

 

It's probably weird to speculate to this degree over something that didn't happen- but say if Sherlock had slept with her, and we'd known about it? That would have been, if you take Janine and how it affected her out of it, a pretty shocking development.

 

Presumably Janine had a fairly normal sex life and had had a few partners, perhaps, whereas for Sherlock it would have been quite the anomaly. I wonder how he would have felt about their comparitive levels of experience? He doesn't seem like a character who enjoys feeling out of his depth.

 

The decision for him not to, of course, was all about what it would do to his character, the idea that Sherlock Holmes sees the body as merely transport, and yet also is too chivalrous to take advantage of women... he sure has a lot of reasons not to have sex. They were never going to go there, especially not just for a plot device.

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But I think if she'd been spying on Sherlock for CAM, they would have said so. Why have a plot point that you never reveal?

Why would it have to be revealed though? It’s not like it would have amounted to anything?

 

I think that's it exactly. Moffat even said as much (in the commentary? Somewhere) -- they needed to leave Sherlock feeling a little bad for what he'd done to her.

Maybe it was the same interview I saw about TBB with Moffat, Sue V, Mary actress, Gatiss? In that interview Sue V had to remind Moffat about Molly in the list of women that Sherlock has been awful to which I thought was funny.

 

I suspect Janine fits some sort of male ideal of the "modern woman" ... you can have all the fun you want with her, including sex, with zero strings attached. When you're ready to move on, there's no drama, she just lets you go. (But of course, she's loyal to you while you're together!) And I suppose there actually may be some relationships like that.

This pretty much describes friends with benefits but in my experience these were more common around college age or people who travel a lot and don’t want to be tied down.
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....I think there is a small part of Moffat that actually likes the idea of a male hero who can get away with treating women poorly and they still want him- ....?

I don’t think it’s a small part of Moffat going by how he writes which is why deservedly gets all the criticism for how he writes women.

 

I'm not a fan of that attitude; it is tempered by other aspects of the show and writing- but it's there. For me, Janine is more irksome that Molly because this is the sum total of how Sherlock deals with her, and it's all bad.

Given the sum total of Sherlock being nice to Molly amounts to like 4 scenes in 4 series of scenes, I’m not sure Molly’s is much better.

 

... in a situation where had she been working with Magnussen against Sherlock she surely would have done exactly the opposite?

Why would she have done the opposite? I’m not sure i follow your logic.

 

Yes, in a way that (not sleeping with her) redeems him, though arguably he just felt too guilty about what he knew was a lie to take things any further?

 

Because I don't believe he had zero interest in Janine: there was chemistry there. But the fact he didn't sleep with her- perhaps because he'd know she'd feel used later, to me also shows he knew he was in questionable territory.

 

There's still something annoying paternalistic about that- I'll protect her feminine feelings so that she won't feel as used when she finds out I actually did use her for good, logical, manly reasons. Ugh.

Given that Sherlock didn’t feel remotely guilty for anything he did (it was even in the direction of that scene in the script that he had no shame) then why would him not sleeping with her have to be for gentleman reasons? It could simply be he didn’t want to, yes?
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... in a situation where had she been working with Magnussen against Sherlock she surely would have done exactly the opposite?

Why would she have done the opposite? I’m not sure i follow your logic.

I meant, why if she is only seeing Sherlock to get info for Magnussen why would she let him in to the office, which seems to have the opposite effect- i.e. getting Sherlock info on Magnussen instead? And she's risking herself getting fired as well, strange for a proposal she sees as a bit of fun, to go to that length for it?

 

Yes, in a way that (not sleeping with her) redeems him, though arguably he just felt too guilty about what he knew was a lie to take things any further?

 

Because I don't believe he had zero interest in Janine: there was chemistry there. But the fact he didn't sleep with her- perhaps because he'd know she'd feel used later, to me also shows he knew he was in questionable territory.

 

There's still something annoying paternalistic about that- I'll protect her feminine feelings so that she won't feel as used when she finds out I actually did use her for good, logical, manly reasons. Ugh.

Given that Sherlock didn’t feel remotely guilty for anything he did (it was even in the direction of that scene in the script that he had no shame) then why would him not sleeping with her have to be for gentleman reasons? It could simply be he didn’t want to, yes?

Of course, anything's possible, for me it's not what I believe based on what I saw of their scenes- but I can see why you might think so.

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Of course, anything's possible, for me it's not what I believe based on what I saw of their scenes- but I can see why you might think so.

What makes you think Sherlock had genuine feelings for her though? The only time that Sherlock was himself around her was in the hospital and he was quite unaffected by the whole thing so it would seem his feelings were superficial at best, more like she was fun girl to be around but rather indifferent otherwise. Everything else was an act if you go by the hospital scene. Or just look at how he talked about her to John. “Convenient to meet her at the wedding” which I always took as he knew who she was from the beginning and started the act off the bat.

 

As far as why she let him up? I don’t know maybe because she was curious about the real reason he proposed or more realistically, it was a plot point to get Sherlock shot by Mary.

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Of course, anything's possible, for me it's not what I believe based on what I saw of their scenes- but I can see why you might think so.

What makes you think Sherlock had genuine feelings for her though? The only time that Sherlock was himself around her was in the hospital and he was quite unaffected by the whole thing so it would seem his feelings were superficial at best, more like she was fun girl to be around but rather indifferent otherwise. Everything else was an act if you go by the hospital scene. Or just look at how he talked about her to John. “Convenient to meet her at the wedding” which I always took as he knew who she was from the beginning and started the act off the bat.

 

I thought that when he met her at the wedding he didn't know she worked for Magnussen straight away, and that he liked her then. Purely from BC's performance- things like the look he gave her on the dancefloor before leaving the wedding looking a bit forlorn (and when he threw her that flower, or whatever it was), and during their flirty exchanges.

 

It seemed like she was the one to make the first move with him- the best man/maid of honor jokes etc, which was why I thought at that time he didn't know it was her and was genuinely at least taken enough with her to have a more friendly chat that he generally does with the normals.

 

I'm not sure Sherlock is the type that considers many a 'fun girl to be around'- so I still think it's special that he clicked with her- but it's just part of my reading of the character, I can understand others differing.

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Don't know - Sherlock checked the other guests, like Mary's former boyfriend.
Plus it was quite uncommon for him to flirt with a woman the way he flirted with Janine.
But aiming at her as an access way to CAM would only make sense if he was already interested in him, which only would make sense if he knew Mary's past.
 
Which means that not only Moff's scripts don't make sense. mosking.gif

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