Molly Hooper

[Hikari]

16 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

It seemed out of character, forced. Fortunately, Louise Brealey (I bet I misspelled her name again) is a great actress and managed to pull it off imo

Molly slapping Sherl (three times, hard) is, in my opinion, both 'out of (her normal) character' but at the same time situationally organic.  I wouldn't say I agree that it was 'lazy' writing on Mofftiss's part to have Molly acting so uncharacteristically bold.  It shocked the hell out of me and probably everyone watching, precisely because it was so unexpected.  But 'unexpected' doesn't equate to 'forced' for me, in this instance.

Molly is on her home turf when she is presented with a potentially Awkwardest Situation Ever-- testing the urine of the the man she adores for drugs, with a roomful of people hanging on the result.  I think when the test was positive, her justified anger at Sherl's risk-taking, potentially damaging/fatal behavior just overrode her normal instinct to self-preservation and reserve.  As a doctor she knows just what kind of damage he's inflicting on himself and his prodigious gifts.  Sherlock is the most precious thing to Molly, I think we can agree, and in that moment she was enraged by the person who was hurting him--who was himself.  If another person had injected Sherl with drugs, perhaps Molly would have flown into an equal fit of temper.  I don't think there was conscious thought involved here.  Her anger powered her hand-to-his-face motion without her taking the time to analyze her anger.  Had she done so, she probably wouldn't have gotten physical.  She's like a mother who has just spanked her child for darting out into the street, really. Even the most mild-mannered of moms would have that panic reaction of 'I love you so much I could kill you right now for almost getting yourself killed.'

I prefer Fiesty Molly to Sadsack Basket case Molly, such as we saw in the last episode. 

[bronzeblues]

2 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Thanks for reminding me why I am very careful about what fanfiction I take a closer look at! 

I can't imagine Sherlock in a relationship with Irene or Molly. He and Irene could be their own probably f...ed up version of friends with benefits and he and Molly make great friends but that's as far as my imagination goes. 

I think for Sherlock, Irene is hot and Molly is lovable and he doesn't intend to be either woman's boyfriend. 

But maybe that's just me being unable to picture Sherlock Holmes as anyone's romantic partner. 

I like Irene too, btw. At least this incarnation of her. 

Oh believe me, I am with you on Sherlock and romantic relationships. He would never ever EVER be in a standard romantic relationship that's for sure. I imagine the relation between him and Irene to be more like a mix of wits, adventure and passionate sex. Let's face it, that's the sort of relationship that would be perfect for Irene as well. She practically INVENTED that game. Molly on the other hand is a text book example of girl being all flowers, candles and romantic walks and let's face it Sherlock would be THE WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE for that. 

[bedelia1984]

3 hours ago, Hikari said:

Molly slapping Sherl (three times, hard) is, in my opinion, both 'out of (her normal) character' but at the same time situationally organic.  I wouldn't say I agree that it was 'lazy' writing on Mofftiss's part to have Molly acting so uncharacteristically bold.  It shocked the hell out of me and probably everyone watching, precisely because it was so unexpected.  But 'unexpected' doesn't equate to 'forced' for me, in this instance.

Molly is on her home turf when she is presented with a potentially Awkwardest Situation Ever-- testing the urine of the the man she adores for drugs, with a roomful of people hanging on the result.  I think when the test was positive, her justified anger at Sherl's risk-taking, potentially damaging/fatal behavior just overrode her normal instinct to self-preservation and reserve.  As a doctor she knows just what kind of damage he's inflicting on himself and his prodigious gifts.  Sherlock is the most precious thing to Molly, I think we can agree, and in that moment she was enraged by the person who was hurting him--who was himself.  If another person had injected Sherl with drugs, perhaps Molly would have flown into an equal fit of temper.  I don't think there was conscious thought involved here.  Her anger powered her hand-to-his-face motion without her taking the time to analyze her anger.  Had she done so, she probably wouldn't have gotten physical.  She's like a mother who has just spanked her child for darting out into the street, really. Even the most mild-mannered of moms would have that panic reaction of 'I love you so much I could kill you right now for almost getting yourself killed.'

I prefer Fiesty Molly to Sadsack Basket case Molly, such as we saw in the last episode. 

 

Yeah, ditto on it being both out of character and organic for me. It also has echoes of how she challenged him, using only words, and not even strong words, but still to significant effect, in Scandal at the party- a much better scene, sure, but in this case she's trying to reach him through the fog of drugs as well, which is a more frustrating and heightened situation. The writers routinely position Molly as someone in his life who will challenge him to rethink his behaviour at times he's hurting others, or himself.

I also thought The Empty Hearse marked a change in their dynamic anyway, so it made sense to me that things got heated in the slap scene later. I think Molly's recent breakup may have played a part in the whole thing as well, you've got to wonder to what extent either spoken or unspoken Sherlock had played into that, and then to see him apparently throwing his life away is probably quite triggering in those circumstances.

In real life, slapping is not something I condone, but in a world where Sherlock and John get physical as part of their friendship, I do think they mean  it as an act of friendship (the slap), as well as a wake-up call, which we see again when it's used as a motif in his hallucinationjust after the shooting.

All that said, the show's portrayal of women still has a fundamental flaw and there's an unfortunate link they insist on repeatedly drawing between women with a 'dominatrix' style need to physically punish and actual strength of character which rings false.

 

[Arcadia]

5 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

... what bothers me is that I have a sneaking suspicion we as the audience are somehow expected to find the action laudable and applaud her for it. "Look at Molly not being a doormat anymore!" 

Oddly enough (or not) I never saw it that way; but then, I never thought of Molly as a doormat either. Awkward and outclassed, maybe, but not a doormat. Anyway, I thought the main point of the slaps was to show that Molly was still hung up on Sherlock. Why would she care what he does to himself otherwise? But just one episode prior it was implied that she had decided to move on. Now we find out she hasn't.

I did have the sneaking suspicion, however, that we as the audience are somehow expected to find the shooting of Magnussen laudable and applaud Sherlock for it. So I understand your objection to -- well, being told what to think. It's uncomfortable. Whether Moftiss actually intends it that way, or we fans just derive too much meaning from their words, I can't say. Probably the latter, eh?

2 hours ago, Hikari said:

Molly slapping Sherl (three times, hard) is, in my opinion, both 'out of (her normal) character' but at the same time situationally organic.  I wouldn't say I agree that it was 'lazy' writing on Mofftiss's part to have Molly acting so uncharacteristically bold.  It shocked the hell out of me and probably everyone watching, precisely because it was so unexpected.  But 'unexpected' doesn't equate to 'forced' for me, in this instance. 

[Arcadia]

Cross-posted, I see. Feel free to ignore my superfluous remarks.  

10 hours ago, bedelia1984 said:

All that said, the show's portrayal of women still has a fundamental flaw and there's an unfortunate link they insist on repeatedly drawing between women with a 'dominatrix' style need to physically punish and actual strength of character which rings false.

Yes to this too ... I do get tired of women acting like men in order to be considered strong. I think that's another reason I identify with Molly; she's not bamf, she's just a girl who's straightforward enough, and good enough at her job, to win the trust of one Sherlock Holmes. That's a lot more relatable than assassins and dominatrixes. (Dominatrices? Dominatri? )

[bedelia1984]

10 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Cross-posted, I see. Feel free to ignore my superfluous remarks.  

Yes to this too ... I do get tired of women acting like men in order to be considered strong. I think that's another reason I identify with Molly; she's not bamf, she's just a girl who's straightforward enough, and good enough at her job, to win the trust of one Sherlock Holmes. That's a lot more relatable than assassins and dominatrixes. (Dominatrices? Dominatri? )

 

This is my favourite thing about Molly too, there's a wonderful, steadfast, determined ordinariness about her that contrasts with the other characters and makes a virtue of the down-to-earth and everyday as an antidote to the extremes of the villains and heroes on display elsewhere in the story. To me there's a courage in being a certain kind of 'normal' and unassuming, which some people in real life have, and I love seeing that in her character. It contrasts particularly well with Sherlock's own tendency to want to showboat his detective skills- whereas Molly has skills in her work too, but she's happy to let her work speak for itself.

I think it's what drew me to John, too actually, in the early days, despite his killer instincts I also think he had that quality more in seasons 1-2.

[Janyss]

6 hours ago, bedelia1984 said:

 

This is my favourite thing about Molly too, there's a wonderful, steadfast, determined ordinariness about her that contrasts with the other characters and makes a virtue of the down-to-earth and everyday as an antidote to the extremes of the villains and heroes on display elsewhere in the story. To me there's a courage in being a certain kind of 'normal' and unassuming, which some people in real life have, and I love seeing that in her character. It contrasts particularly well with Sherlock's own tendency to want to showboat his detective skills- whereas Molly has skills in her work too, but she's happy to let her work speak for itself.

I think it's what drew me to John, too actually, in the early days, despite his killer instincts I also think he had that quality more in seasons 1-2.

I have quite the same feelings about Molly...but that's a problem for me. I'm not sure I need to see a female character in this complete devotion just as you can see some girls (sometimes your friends...or a side of yourself if it happens) in real life. The development of Irene Adler is the other extreme of the same problem. I can't cope with any of these two characters.  However, Molly becomes more interesting in HLV and TLD. I didn't really see the point of her storyline in TFP, but I have a much more nuanced opinion about our  poor tech lab at the end of the series. Not to mention Louise Brealey's work on the character, which is really awesome and impressive!

[Hikari]

15 hours ago, bedelia1984 said:

I also thought The Empty Hearse marked a change in their dynamic anyway, so it made sense to me that things got heated in the slap scene later. I think Molly's recent breakup may have played a part in the whole thing as well, you've got to wonder to what extent either spoken or unspoken Sherlock had played into that, and then to see him apparently throwing his life away is probably quite triggering in those circumstances.

Good point.  Yes.  Sherlock immediately deduces the fate of Molly's engagement ring and his only comment was of it in terms of benefit to himself in the moment of getting slapped.  One of his more infuriating/callous Sherlock moments, making me think that 3 slaps might have been too few.  If Molly had had higher elevation, she could have gone for his eyes or ripping his hair out.   

Sherlock at his most . .Himself . . can be absolutely maddening.  And like he did at the Christmas drinkies scene, he zeroes in on Molly's greatest vulnerability.  She had genuinely tried to move on from her infatuation with him and make a functional relationship with someone else, and here she is, being insulted by Sherlock Holmes in a roomful of her closest friends again, back to square one.

Poor Tom.  His only flaw was in not being Sherlock Holmes.  The 'meat dagger' was quite a clever theory, actually.

14 hours ago, bedelia1984 said:

This is my favourite thing about Molly too, there's a wonderful, steadfast, determined ordinariness about her that contrasts with the other characters and makes a virtue of the down-to-earth and everyday as an antidote to the extremes of the villains and heroes on display elsewhere in the story. To me there's a courage in being a certain kind of 'normal' and unassuming, which some people in real life have, and I love seeing that in her character. It contrasts particularly well with Sherlock's own tendency to want to showboat his detective skills- whereas Molly has skills in her work too, but she's happy to let her work speak for itself.

I like this summation of Molly very much.  She is not flamboyant and she seems superficially not very self-confident at times, but there is an inner core of steel hidden under the dorky clothes and the gamine package.  Even the very first time we meet her, she has screwed up her courage and asked the man of her dreams out for coffee.  Molly seems on the surface like she'd be a bit flaky and obsessed with the novels of Jane Austen, but despite a rather ethereal outer presentation, (and her fantasy life involving Sherlock Holmes) she is at bottom a pragmatist.  She does a nasty job, and she does it efficiently, and must find it fascinating.  Sherlock doesn't seem to give her her proper due  as a scientist . . but we see that changing in S3.  Turns out, it seems, that in standing up to SH and demonstrating her displeasure at his behavior in such vivid terms has made an indelible impression on him--for the good.  When he has been shot and is near death, who is his spirit guide in the Mind Palace?  Who literally slaps him back to life?  Molly.  When his conscious mind and all its snarky attitude and defensive barriers are overridden to the next deeper level, Molly is there.  Not in her oft irritating role as the mousy girl with the crush on him, but Scientist Molly, the one with the anatomical knowledge to help him save his own life by helping him access that information in his mind.  He side-stepped a panic attack that would have wasted critical seconds by focusing on . . not John, as we might expect, but on the woman he misses few opportunities to run down when he's awake.  He even slaps himself at one point, in the MP, in imitation of her.   Interesting, no?  Molly Hooper provides, literally and figuratively, the kick in the pants slap in the face Sherlock needs in his most critical moments to be his best self.  Her, and the motivation of saving John Watson, but she is integral to his success, both in pulling off his fake death and avoiding his real one. 

And yet, he treats her like cr*p.  This must be, for Sherlock Holmes, his love language.  Because if it isn't, never mind the Great Brain, he's the biggest tw*t in the universe!

[Hikari]

21 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Molly on the other hand is a text book example of girl being all flowers, candles and romantic walks and let's face it Sherlock would be THE WORST POSSIBLE CHOICE for that. 

See my thoughts above on Molly . . sure, she *looks* like a girl who has a copy of Pride & Prejudice in tatters in her bag and who might have been in the Mr. Darcy fanclub--actually she is Elizabeth Bennet to Sherlock's Mr. Darcy.  Sherl is Darcy to the 10th power, and, it turns out, is even good at dancing.  We could also call her Jane Eyre to Sherl's Mr. Rochester.

However--underneath the vaporish girl presentation and the gamine Regency looks (apart from the hideous pullovers), Molly can be a steely, practical, down-to-earth person.  She's a trained scientist--more rigorously trained than Sherlock, actually, if she's got an M.D. in pathology.  Molly's tentative personality makes it easy to underrate her intellect and her skills, but she cuts up dead people for a living, and she enjoys it.  She has a position of authority at Barts, to have enough access to records to make the Reichenbach ploy work out so well.  Sherlock minimizes her accomplishments and so the audience does, too, but Molly has, or betters, SH's own skill set in the laboratory sciences.  Maybe she's not as hearts-n-flowers, walks on the beach as she appears.  I could see Sherl and Molly passing a fun evening (for them) engaged in a 'Name that Body Part' game or perhaps a nice midnight walk through some of London's catacombs.  I had it in mind to write a fan fic where Sherlock and Molly have a 'date' after hours at the Natural History Museum, wandering through the back areas, sifting through mummified remains, dinosaur bones and the like.  Molly does not get nearly enough credit for being a super-smart scientific mind with decidedly outré interests.  She wouldn't be adverse to a romantic candlelit dinner--but she might actually be more tempted by a juicy murder scene.  Sherlock may underrate her, and her writers, too, but I see great potential in Molly.  That's why I advise her to get over Sherl, who is just a colossal waste of her time and cultivate Greg L. instead.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

19 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I did have the sneaking suspicion, however, that we as the audience are somehow expected to find the shooting of Magnussen laudable and applaud Sherlock for it. So I understand your objection to -- well, being told what to think. It's uncomfortable. Whether Moftiss actually intends it that way, or we fans just derive too much meaning from their words, I can't say. Probably the latter, eh?

Both, I think, but what's the problem with that?  A professional writer must surely have some idea of how his work is going to affect the reader/audience.  Isn't that the whole point of writing-for-an-audience?  And we the consumers are bound to have a reaction to the writing, if it's any good.

The problem, in my opinion, comes when the writer rubs the audience's nose in their own pet viewpoint and/or when the audience turns the work into a quasi-religious crusade.  Both occurrences are all too common, of course, but in either case, my idea of how much is too much will surely differ from yours.

[bronzeblues]

1 hour ago, Hikari said:

See my thoughts above on Molly . . sure, she *looks* like a girl who has a copy of Pride & Prejudice in tatters in her bag and who might have been in the Mr. Darcy fanclub--actually she is Elizabeth Bennet to Sherlock's Mr. Darcy.  Sherl is Darcy to the 10th power, and, it turns out, is even good at dancing.  We could also call her Jane Eyre to Sherl's Mr. Rochester.

However--underneath the vaporish girl presentation and the gamine Regency looks (apart from the hideous pullovers), Molly can be a steely, practical, down-to-earth person.  She's a trained scientist--more rigorously trained than Sherlock, actually, if she's got an M.D. in pathology.  Molly's tentative personality makes it easy to underrate her intellect and her skills, but she cuts up dead people for a living, and she enjoys it.  She has a position of authority at Barts, to have enough access to records to make the Reichenbach ploy work out so well.  Sherlock minimizes her accomplishments and so the audience does, too, but Molly has, or betters, SH's own skill set in the laboratory sciences.  Maybe she's not as hearts-n-flowers, walks on the beach as she appears.  I could see Sherl and Molly passing a fun evening (for them) engaged in a 'Name that Body Part' game or perhaps a nice midnight walk through some of London's catacombs.  I had it in mind to write a fan fic where Sherlock and Molly have a 'date' after hours at the Natural History Museum, wandering through the back areas, sifting through mummified remains, dinosaur bones and the like.  Molly does not get nearly enough credit for being a super-smart scientific mind with decidedly outré interests.  She wouldn't be adverse to a romantic candlelit dinner--but she might actually be more tempted by a juicy murder scene.  Sherlock may underrate her, and her writers, too, but I see great potential in Molly.  That's why I advise her to get over Sherl, who is just a colossal waste of her time and cultivate Greg L. instead.  

I never said Molly isn't smart or a capable scientific mind. Being pragmatic when it comes to your daily life and work doesn't have connection with the way Molly was presented to us when it comes to romance. It was more than clear for me that she just is the girl for pubs on weeknd, walking the dog, watching telly... even if perhaps she wouldn't want to be cause she must know that's not in the cards when it comes to Sherlock Holmes. No one said Molly isn't smart or good at her job. That doesn't change the fact that she is a good girl next door type and for someone like Sherlock that's a fatal kiss of death. Boring. 

[Arcadia]

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Both, I think, but what's the problem with that?  A professional writer must surely have some idea of how his work is going to affect the reader/audience.  Isn't that the whole point of writing-for-an-audience?  And we the consumers are bound to have a reaction to the writing, if it's any good.

And here I thought you were going to take me on over my response to your question about John kicking Sherlock! I braced myself and everything.  

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question, but I don't have any problem with a writer trying to affect how a viewer thinks about something. But I just instinctively resist when I get the impression I'm being expected to agree with something I don't agree with. The implication is, there's something wrong with me if I don't agree. And that's what I get from the shooting of CAM; the sense that I'm supposed to celebrate ("oh whoopee, Sherlock's a badass!") when in fact, I was heart--broken. It jars. Not enough to drive me away; it's still one of my favorite episodes for reasons that have nothing to do with CAM. But I still bristle every time I get the impression that I'm supposed to think shooting an unarmed man in the face is an honorable thing. Getting' down with that just ain't in me.

I do understand (at least, some of the reasons) why other people are okay with it, though. Those reasons just don't work for me, that's all.

 

[Hikari]

4 minutes ago, bronzeblues said:

I never said Molly isn't smart or a capable scientific mind. Being pragmatic when it comes to your daily life and work doesn't have connection with the way Molly was presented to us when it comes to romance. It was more than clear for me that she just is the girl for pubs on weeknd, walking the dog, watching telly... even if perhaps she wouldn't want to be cause she must know that's not in the cards when it comes to Sherlock Holmes. No one said Molly isn't smart or good at her job. That doesn't change the fact that she is a good girl next door type and for someone like Sherlock that's a fatal kiss of death. Boring. 

Well, I don't disagree with you that Sherlock would be Bored with anything resembling typical dating behavior.  Or typical behavior full-stop.  Molly would seem to be receptive to more 'normal' dating rituals, based on her appearance and demeanor. But what I was suggesting is that there is more to Molly than meets the eye.  She did try the whole 'walk the dog/pubs on the weekend' typical routine . .which she supposed she should be content with--but she must not have been content, because she broke it off with Tom.  On some level she must have gotten Bored with pubs and walking the dog.  Even 'having quite a lot of sex' with Tom didn't hold her interest.  He superficially resembled Sherlock a tiny bit, but he was too bland and wholesome, apparently.  Sort of a male version of her--or at least, a male version of what everyone assumes her to be--a conventional little mouse with lurve on her mind.

I think Molly's well-kept secret is that in her inner core, she's a Freak, too.  She just keeps a tighter lid on her freakiness than Sherlock does.  She plays the part of 'the good girl next door'  . . but I submit that good girls next door types who just want to bake cookies and knit sweaters and canoodle on the couch with their man while watching Strictly Come Dancing do not, as a rule, become pathologists for the Metropolitan Police.  Molly is perpetually drawn to SH, despite any number of normal, regular guys she could be dating.  She's a freak magnet, just like John Watson is . .because like calls to like.  She's not a high-functioning sociopath or a full-out psycho like Jim Moriarty . . but she keeps being drawn to Sherlock because that deeply unconventional life which he represents appeals to her.  She tried 'normal' with Tom, and she's still alone at the end of the series because it's very unlikely that someone with her intensive, isolating and off-putting job and narrow range of highly specialized interests would be able to sustain 'normal' with a 'normal' bloke.  Sherlock is not for her, obviously . .but if she were with Greg, at least they'd both be working the same long crazy hours and dealing with some of the same dead bodies.  Greg would be a whole lot more comfortable with Molly's line of work than a civilian would be.

[Arcadia]

22 minutes ago, bronzeblues said:

I never said Molly isn't smart or a capable scientific mind. Being pragmatic when it comes to your daily life and work doesn't have connection with the way Molly was presented to us when it comes to romance. It was more than clear for me that she just is the girl for pubs on weeknd, walking the dog, watching telly... even if perhaps she wouldn't want to be cause she must know that's not in the cards when it comes to Sherlock Holmes. No one said Molly isn't smart or good at her job. That doesn't change the fact that she is a good girl next door type and for someone like Sherlock that's a fatal kiss of death. Boring. 

I would have thought the same thing, except for that one little moment in TEH, when Sherlock congratulates her on finding someone to fall for who isn't a "sociopath", and she murmurs "Maybe it's just my type." I remember going "Huh?" because she doesn't give off that vibe at all, does she? You look at her and the way she behaves, and think she's only interested in the lovey-dovey stuff. But apparently she doesn't think that about herself. And she should know. That's the first time I thought gee, if Sherlock could get his head out of his, ahem, clouds, this Sherlolly thing might actually work. 

Still don't think it will happen though.  

[Arcadia]

12 minutes ago, Hikari said:

Well, I don't disagree with you that Sherlock would be Bored with anything resembling typical dating behavior.  Or typical behavior full-stop.  Molly would seem to be receptive to more 'normal' dating rituals, based on her appearance and demeanor. But what I was suggesting is that there is more to Molly than meets the eye.  She did try the whole 'walk the dog/pubs on the weekend' typical routine . .which she supposed she should be content with--but she must not have been content, because she broke it off with Tom.  On some level she must have gotten Bored with pubs and walking the dog.  Even 'having quite a lot of sex' with Tom didn't hold her interest.  He superficially resembled Sherlock a tiny bit, but he was too bland and wholesome, apparently.  Sort of a male version of her--or at least, a male version of what everyone assumes her to be--a conventional little mouse with lurve on her mind.

I think Molly's well-kept secret is that in her inner core, she's a Freak, too.  She just keeps a tighter lid on her freakiness than Sherlock does.  She plays the part of 'the good girl next door'  . . but I submit that good girls next door types who just want to bake cookies and knit sweaters and canoodle on the couch with their man while watching Strictly Come Dancing do not, as a rule, become pathologists for the Metropolitan Police.  Molly is perpetually drawn to SH, despite any number of normal, regular guys she could be dating.  She's a freak magnet, just like John Watson is . .because like calls to like.  She's not a high-functioning sociopath or a full-out psycho like Jim Moriarty . . but she keeps being drawn to Sherlock because that deeply unconventional life which he represents appeals to her.  She tried 'normal' with Tom, and she's still alone at the end of the series because it's very unlikely that someone with her intensive, isolating and off-putting job and narrow range of highly specialized interests would be able to sustain 'normal' with a 'normal' bloke.  Sherlock is not for her, obviously . .but if she were with Greg, at least they'd both be working the same long crazy hours and dealing with some of the same dead bodies.  Greg would be a whole lot more comfortable with Molly's line of work than a civilian would be.

Okay, you make a really good case for Greg, I admit it.   If only he were 15 years younger.... heck, 10, even....

 

[Hikari]

2 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Okay, you make a really good case for Greg, I admit it.   If only he were 15 years younger.... heck, 10, even....

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2540925/I-wish-theyd-let-play-Holmes-By-man-plays-bungling-Inspector-Lestrade.html

I found this--an essay by Rupert himself, in the Daily Mail, reflecting on his role . . and confessing his secret desire to play Holmes.  This man is completely adorbs, and, in the considered opinion of a woman of taste (moi), hotter looking now than when he was young (and Rupie was an angelically beautiful youth.)  He's more rugged now and it suits him.  It certainly suits me.

I'm a bit surprised at your comment above, because I wouldn't think it would matter much, the age gap. I'm not sure how old they are proposing Molly is, but Loo Brealey will be 40 on her next birthday.  Not an ingénue any more, though her looks mean that she will be able to play 10 years younger than her age for a  long time.  Rupert is 54 years old.  So the age gap is 15 years.  Are you not comfortable with a partnership where the gap between partners is more than 5 years?  Because I think our Lestrade is holding up the side really well for blokes in their mid-50s.  He's very fit and active.  I just don't think it is a consideration.  Perhaps if Molly were obsessed with having children but I don't get that vibe from her, really.  Anyway, her bio clock would be a constraint even if she married someone in her peer group or even if she was with a 25-year-old.  If Molly wanted a baby with Lestrade, I am confident he'd be more than capable of providing her with one. 

Rupert is 2 years my senior.  Benedict is 11 years younger than me.  Theoretically speaking, if either of these guys were available and in my orbit, I'd  . . try to have both of them, though not simultaneously.  I am routinely assumed to be in my mid-30s.  Ben might assume I'm younger than he is because as of this writing, I do not have any lines, and he's got a lot.  So . .do I date according to what's on my driver's license . . or do I hide my DL and date who I can get away with?    My money's on the latter, if I can refrain from saying things like "Well, back in my day . .(the '80s . . )'  When Sherlock told Irene, "No offense, but you were clearly born in the '80s . ." I gulped.  Because I was in high school in the '80s.  But if Sherl is the same age as Ben, they were both born in the '70s, so that's kind of rich.

Age does not sit on men the same as it does on women . . it doesn't take so much away from them so soon.  They can still procreate when they are 70 years old.  This is not fair.

[Hikari]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

that one little moment in TEH, when Sherlock congratulates her on finding someone to fall for who isn't a "sociopath", and she murmurs "Maybe it's just my type." I remember going "Huh?" because she doesn't give off that vibe at all, does she? You look at her and the way she behaves, and think she's only interested in the lovey-dovey stuff. But apparently she doesn't think that about herself. And she should know

Poor Molly doesn't have the best track record with boyfriends.  She tried distracting herself from her obsession with Sherlock with 'Jim from IT' . . who unbeknownst to her was a bona fide psychopath.  And gay, because Sherlock said so.  I think that little heartbreaking moment in TEH, when Sherl kisses her on the cheek and she starts crying and says, to herself 'Maybe that's just my type.' was a rueful acknowledgement that she is drawn to men who end up using her for their own ends, especially One in particular. 

She declined Sherl's impromptu invite to go for chips .  . which in retrospect was, though loyal to Tom, pretty stupid.  Here was the man of her dreams finally taking her up on a sort-of date and she was rushing off home to Tom and the dog.  Is it technically cheating if you have chips with a man you're not engaged to, when he's not regarding it as a 'date' at all; when you aren't even 'a woman' to him, but just a substitute for his absent male roommate?  Had she gone for the chips with Sherl, she might have broken it off sooner with Tom--leaving her dateless for John's wedding.  But those tears from Loo were a nice touch.  Heartrending.  Even seemingly casual interactions with Sherlock Holmes are fraught with complications.

[bedelia1984]

2 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I would have thought the same thing, except for that one little moment in TEH, when Sherlock congratulates her on finding someone to fall for who isn't a "sociopath", and she murmurs "Maybe it's just my type." I remember going "Huh?" because she doesn't give off that vibe at all, does she? You look at her and the way she behaves, and think she's only interested in the lovey-dovey stuff. But apparently she doesn't think that about herself. And she should know. That's the first time I thought gee, if Sherlock could get his head out of his, ahem, clouds, this Sherlolly thing might actually work. 

Still don't think it will happen though.  

There is also the clue, of course that the first time we see her she's watching Sherlock beating a corpse and seems to find the whole process rather charming.

Details like that are why I find it strange that people dismiss Molly as a bland shrinking violet type. It seems pretty clear to me from early on that she has a darker side and that's part of why she's so drawn to Sherlock. Much like John has a layer of ordinariness covering darker depths, I think Molly is the same- whereas with Sherlock perhaps his hidden side, as partly revealed in TFP consists of that which is a bit more ordinary.

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 5/9/2018 at 9:41 AM, Arcadia said:

... a lot of writers and actors love to explore the dark side of their characters, but that's never been a favorite with me. If I want to see people failing to be their better selves, I only have to look around me everyday. I prefer characters who rise above it. But that's just me....

Nope, not just you.  Mind you, I don't enjoy watching characters who are Perfect either (remember Tom Selleck's Lance White in a couple episodes of The Rockford Files? though that was played for laughs, and sure got 'em from me).  I like characters who are realistic, but to me that doesn't have to mean psychotic or anything, just not Perfect.

And if a character starts out as a basically decent human being, I don't like it (nay, I hate it!) when they mess with him/her.  I don't think it makes them "more interesting," just contradictory.  Mind you, I don't mind characters having a bad day, but I don't want them to turn into someone else.  In my opinion, they totally ruined Ross on Friends, and they had a pretty good start on John, though they seem to have done a U-turn with him, thank goodness.

[Arcadia]

3 hours ago, Hikari said:

I'm a bit surprised at your comment above, because I wouldn't think it would matter much, the age gap. I'm not sure how old they are proposing Molly is, but Loo Brealey will be 40 on her next birthday.  Not an ingénue any more, though her looks mean that she will be able to play 10 years younger than her age for a  long time.  Rupert is 54 years old.  So the age gap is 15 years.  Are you not comfortable with a partnership where the gap between partners is more than 5 years?  Because I think our Lestrade is holding up the side really well for blokes in their mid-50s.  He's very fit and active.  I just don't think it is a consideration.  Perhaps if Molly were obsessed with having children but I don't get that vibe from her, really.  Anyway, her bio clock would be a constraint even if she married someone in her peer group or even if she was with a 25-year-old.  If Molly wanted a baby with Lestrade, I am confident he'd be more than capable of providing her with one. 

It's them dying some 15-20 years before you do that makes me leery. And having to take care of them while they're dying, and you're still young and active enough to have a life, but you can't because you're a nursemaid. I am nothing if not utterly selfish, after all.  

In all seriousness, I just get the impression Molly hasn't lived much, but part of her wants to, and that part belongs with someone who will make her life exciting, not safe.

1 hour ago, bedelia1984 said:

There is also the clue, of course that the first time we see her she's watching Sherlock beating a corpse and seems to find the whole process rather charming.

Hm, true. If I saw a guy beating a corpse ... or anything else ... I'd be ringing the police. Suddenly I'm identifying with Molly a little less than before .....

[Hikari]

On ‎5‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 3:12 AM, Arcadia said:

Hm, true. If I saw a guy beating a corpse ... or anything else ... I'd be ringing the police. Suddenly I'm identifying with Molly a little less than before .....

Molly would definitely ring the police if she saw a living person being beaten with a riding crop or anything else in the street . . she's got that Girl Scout air about her.

Sherlock was conducting his little 'horsewhipping a dead man' in a clinical setting, in Molly's place of work, for strictly scientific purposes . . as a forensic pathologist she is unfazed by that sort of thing.  Probably did similar in medical school herself.

It's the little smile Molly's wearing as she's watching Sherl beat the snot out of the body that charms me.  Let's all face it, ladies--Sherlock is hot as hell when he's working up a bit of a sweat whipping a cadaver.  Perhaps it's the contrast presented between the dead and the living.  Sherlock is very much alive  . . and rather fetchingly winded after his labors.

[bronzeblues]

On 10. 05. 2018. at 11:47 PM, Arcadia said:

I would have thought the same thing, except for that one little moment in TEH, when Sherlock congratulates her on finding someone to fall for who isn't a "sociopath", and she murmurs "Maybe it's just my type." I remember going "Huh?" because she doesn't give off that vibe at all, does she? You look at her and the way she behaves, and think she's only interested in the lovey-dovey stuff. But apparently she doesn't think that about herself. And she should know. That's the first time I thought gee, if Sherlock could get his head out of his, ahem, clouds, this Sherlolly thing might actually work. 

Still don't think it will happen though.  

Honestly, she only said so because at that moment she realizes she's not over Sherlock. When she speaks about her relationship to Sherlock it's clear she lists all the things that to her probably mark a good relationship. The reason she didn't fully enjoy those things is because she's with the wrong guy. But Sherlock certainly would be far worse. I think people like the idea of an atypical hero and good girl next door together. I was never a fan,that sort of stuff always bored me to tears and the idea here is just even worse because this is BBC Sherlock we are talking about. 

[Arcadia]

17 hours ago, bronzeblues said:

Honestly, she only said so because at that moment she realizes she's not over Sherlock. When she speaks about her relationship to Sherlock it's clear she lists all the things that to her probably mark a good relationship. The reason she didn't fully enjoy those things is because she's with the wrong guy. But Sherlock certainly would be far worse.   

But is she listing the things that she thinks will sound like the mark of a good relationship? Or listing the things she actually wants from a relationship? I don't know, but obviously I tend to think it's the former. She's supposed to be an "ordinary" person, so society expects her to want "ordinary" things. That attitude is impressed on many of us from childhood. So she blurts out all the things that make her sound like a well-adjusted woman.

But then she lets out this little line that indicates maybe she's more interested in the extraordinary than her demeanor lets on. That somehow, the "ordinary" relationship isn't quite as satisfying as it's supposed to be. Maybe it's just the wrong guy ... or maybe it's just the wrong kind of relationship; for her. Don't know, but that's the vibe I get.

Quote

I think people like the idea of an atypical hero and good girl next door together. I was never a fan,that sort of stuff always bored me to tears and the idea here is just even worse because this is BBC Sherlock we are talking about.

I think people like the idea because of what I mentioned above; many of us are trained all our lives not to expect the extraordinary to happen to us; the prize will always go to the girl (or boy) who is prettier, worldlier, smarter, more talented, etc etc ad nauseam. But it doesn't stop us from wanting the prize. So we tend to root for the girl (or boy) who seems most like us to be the winner for a change, that's all.

I doubt if Moftiss wrote Molly that way; I wouldn't expect either of them to have any particular insights into the psyche of young women. But I'm convinced that's how Loo Brealey plays her. Someone who accepts the slot she fills, yet still yearns for something more ... extraordinary.

[bronzeblues]

Yes, well, there's a difference between a more ordinary girl wanting a handsome, wordly guy at school and craming that sort of stuff in BBC Sherlock where they already made Sherlock an extreme case of... everything. I also think women who are past their teenage years don't behave like Molly does in front of Sherlock. She may be shy and akward but she's not 14 for christ's sake.

 

[Arcadia]

I look at Molly the same way I do Sherlock ... or any of the other characters on the show, for that matter ... an exaggeration, often for dramatic impact, mostly for laughs. To me BBC Sherlock is more in the fantasy genre than anything else. Sherlock, Mycroft, and Moriarty are all bigger than life; Lestrade is deplorably incompetent but impossibly cool; Molly acts half her age yet has insight no one else does; John is impossibly patient one minute and over-the-top hostile the next. Even the landlady ran a drug cartel. That's one of the many great joys of this show, to me; the characters are so ridiculous and yet at the same time the acting is so good that they end up feeling really real. I can identify with Sherlock to an extraordinary extent, yet at the same time realize I have almost nothing in common with him. Ditto most of the other characters. I don't get how that works, but I know that, for me, it does. (It's magic! )

I agree that a woman Molly's age would probably have found ways, by now, to seem a little less obvious. At the same time, as someone who is way older than Molly, I can confirm that the shy awkwardness doesn't feel any different than it did when I was 14. I guess that's part of the allure; the characters don't behave realistically, but they convey feelings that seem awfully darn real. And now that I think on it, I guess the writers should get some of the credit for that as well. Still think it's mostly magic, though.