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John Watson


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#1 T.o.b.y

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 07:12 PM

I can't believe it - I just realized we don't have a thread for John. That has got to change. What were we thinking? :lol:

 

I'll make a start by just saying that one of the things I like best about John is that he takes absolutely no nonsense from Mycroft. I bet John is the first human being who failed to be impressed or intimidated by the big brother. I love him for that. And I imagine that Sherlock finds it very refreshing.

 

I mean, John doesn't even seem to admire Mycroft, even though he is technically even more intelligent than Sherlock.


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#2 J.P.

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 07:53 PM

Oh, I thought we have several threads for John. Don't we...? :unsure: 

We are talking about him a lot.

 

He doesn't show being impressed, but the first time they met, John is quite upset, no matter what he says. Which says much about his self-control.

But he does treat Mycroft as equal. It hasn't happened to Myc for a loooong time, that he gets his knuckles rapped by anyone beside his mom. :)


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#3 Arcadia

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 08:45 PM

Aha! I've been working on a response to something you've said, Toby, I can put it here! Thanks! :P
 
This was over in the "is John Sherlock's best friend" thread....
 

... I have from the very beginning never understood why anybody thinks of John as either "kind", "caring", "cuddly" nor "normal".

I don't know about cuddly (I think maybe Mr. Freeman in other roles seems cuddly, but as John Watson?) but for the other three; in S1&2, at least, I think I perceive him as kind and caring because of several scenes. Such as: when he tells Sherlock something's a bit not good instead of calling him a freak; the way he is with Sarah after her near death experience; way he speaks to Westie's fiance; the way he tends to Mrs. Hudson after the CIA guys have had a go at her; the way he tries to gently draw Sherlock out about Irene; the way he goes after Mycroft when the latter seems to be throwing Sherlock to the wolves. And although his (understandable, imo) irritation with Sherlock often seems to take precedence in S3, John has two of his best moments there; when he brings himself to confess that Sherlock is his best friend, and when he starts to tell Sherlock that the two people most important in his life are Mary and him (altho the "dickhead" rather spoils that moment. :rolleyes: )
 
And I regard John as normal, because those behaviors are ones I like to think most decent, adult men display. Also, he goes about his business with courage, self-reliance and dignity, whatever the business may be; and that seems fairly normal to me, especially in men John's age or older.
 
Having said all that, I do understand what you mean; John can be impatient, snarky and even angry with Sherlock during his more outrageous stunts. I don't think of that as making John less kind or caring, though, it just sort of makes him more real to me; he'd be too saintly without that balance. And it definitely makes him more normal! I can't imagine anyone being in proximity to Sherlock for long without snapping at least once; the guy's a crazy-maker par exellence. It's part of what makes him fun to be around, even when you want to kill him for it.
 
What's unkind to me would be if John was intentionally hurtful; dismissive, like Mycroft, or verbally abusive, like Donovan, or derisive, like Sebastion in TBB. I think John misses when Sherlock is emotional, sometimes, because he doesn't expect him to be, and because John himself is pretty stoic. But I don't think that's due to lack of caring or kindness; it's more a deficit of sensitivity to feelings. A normal man, in other words. :P
 
What I do find absolutely amazing about John Watson is his willingness to believe in Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock has consistently abused his trust, and made some horrible errors, but John refuses to lose faith in him. (Here be consequences?) That, I think, is pretty extraordinary.

 

Actually, I see now that you went on to make a similar point:
 

...The other reason I think is that John really, truly believes in Sherlock Holmes and continues to do so when everybody else, his own wife included, has learned to see through him. For John, Sherlock is a hero, someone bordering on superhuman. It doesn't occur to him that he might be unable to solve a puzzle, that he might not have a plan or that he might be internally bleeding. John constantly forgets that Sherlock is human, and he becomes upset, to the point where he's hilariously accusatory about it, when it turns out that Sherlock is as frail and fallible as the rest of us. Personally, I think those moments scare John. He looks up to Sherlock as his "commanding officer" (that line and the Sholto comparison were not strewn in for nothing), and as an army man who tends to rely on hierarchy and the stability it brings, when his commanding officer is out of his depths, that means the situation is really dire, and he becomes scared, and when John is actually scared or sad, it comes out as anger.

So, my point is, if I have one, that the main reason why John behaves the way he does towards Sherlock is that he loves him, and that leads to intense hurt and also an idolization which borders on ridiculous.

I'm glad you brought this up, because I've always had trouble understanding how the Sholto storyline tied in with the overall story; but putting it in terms of hero worship, it suddenly makes sense to me. I think I have trouble seeing Sherlock as a commanding officer, because he so often barely seems in command of himself, let alone able to command others. But I do see that John still harbors a healthy dose of adulation for both men, and why. And it makes sense to me that someone like him would be that way. Same with Mary; he wants to believe in these people, doesn't he?  I like to think that's because John himself is such a decent, well-meaning guy that he just assumes anyone he cares for is, at bottom, the same way. And he may be right; I don't know about Mary or Sholto, but I do believe that Sherlock, in his heart of hearts, aspires to be a really decent person. He just doesn't want the rest of us to notice.


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#4 T.o.b.y

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 08:58 PM

Well, I wouldn't say John was unkind or uncaring, either. Just... I don't know. I've read some fan fics that made me go WTF? That's not John, that's Florence Nightingale without the morphine addiction.

 

I think two of the most telling scenes about John are the beginnings  of A Study in Pink and His Last Vow where we see him without Sherlock. Without his even more abrasive friend, John does not exactly come across as friendly, does he? I have a theory that in Sherlock, John actually found someone who is like him, only more so, and that forced John into the role of the nice, good guy for a change and it did him good.

 

 


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#5 Arcadia

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 09:15 PM

Oh, well, the fan fics .... yeah, I usually don't recognize any of the characters in most of those.
 
No, he's not exactly friendly, he's too guarded to be really friendly. But that's a different thing than kindness anyway. But you make good point ... Sherlock throws him into relief, so maybe by comparison with someone else, John wouldn't seem as decent as he does to me. The only one who even comes close, though, is Lestrade, who is a great deal more patient than John, I think, but not as close to Sherlock, so he can be.

 

Then there's Molly, but I don't really know much about her except her love for Sherlock, do I? She could love him and still be a bitch, for all I know. (Aha, maybe that's why Tom broke up with her! :D )


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#6 T.o.b.y

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 09:32 PM

 
No, he's not exactly friendly, he's too guarded to be really friendly. But that's a different thing than kindness anyway. But you make good point ... Sherlock throws him into relief, so maybe by comparison with someone else, John wouldn't seem as decent as he does to me.

 

Oh, John is decent all right. He's a really good human being for sure. But I think at heart, Sherlock is pretty decent as well. They aren't all that different.
 


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#7 Shadow Dweller

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Posted 11 April 2015 - 11:23 PM

Anyone know the original source of comparing John with hedgehog? :D
We are Sherlockian, speculating is part of the fun ;) M is Mycroft, Moriarty, Mary and Magnussen. I am M, a fangirl :P "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

#8 SherlockedCAMPer

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 12:04 AM

I can't believe it - I just realized we don't have a thread for John. That has got to change. What were we thinking? :lol:

 

 

Hard to believe that Tom, Molly's Ex got a thread before John.  Agreed with the what were we thinking. :o


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#9 Arcadia

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 02:45 AM

Anyone know the original source of comparing John with hedgehog? :D

 

According to this blog:

 

"It started from a fan fiction with fanart a bit ago. It’s about Sherlock as a child, only having a friend that’s a hedgehog he names John."

 

But I'm willing to bet someone else will quote a different source! :smile:


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#10 T.o.b.y

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:10 PM

I didn't know about the hedgehog thing, but it's not a bad comparison, come to think of it...


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#11 Shadow Dweller

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Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:47 PM

Sand-coloured hair and he will prick you when provoked :D
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We are Sherlockian, speculating is part of the fun ;) M is Mycroft, Moriarty, Mary and Magnussen. I am M, a fangirl :P "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

#12 HeroinOrHeroine

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:01 AM

Martin Freeman's acting is just flawless. He turned John into a guy with so much damage and baggage; between the fist-clenching and his smirk, John just seems so real. I wouldn't want to be his friend though. He's so high-strung.
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#13 SherlockedCAMPer

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 03:23 AM

Being John's friend would be interesting.  It just about takes someone like Sherlock to keep him under control...maybe because Sherlock is basically out of control.


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#14 Yusree

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:19 AM

Being John's friend would be interesting.  It just about takes someone like Sherlock to keep him under control...maybe because Sherlock is basically out of control.

 

LOL.....i can't stop laughing

Yes, put the man that out of control to control another man who out of control so that he can be under control  :rofl:

okay, maybe it just me who will think that as funny


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#15 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 05:09 PM

That makes perfect sense to me.  I do not personally see John as "out of control" -- but assuming for the sake of discussion that he is, and also assuming (which I do believe) that he has a strong sense of duty and/or a strong desire to be helpful, then of course John can't allow himself to go out of control, because then who would keep Sherlock from going off the deep end?

 


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#16 T.o.b.y

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 07:52 PM

Martin Freeman's acting is just flawless. He turned John into a guy with so much damage and baggage; between the fist-clenching and his smirk, John just seems so real. I wouldn't want to be his friend though. He's so high-strung.

 

I agree that it is amazing what the actor and the writers have done with the character. I never thought a Dr Watson could be so interesting, compelling and three-dimensional and yet still ring true.

 

I can't quite imagine being friends with John either, let alone his girl-friend, because he seems very hard to get close to. I find myself wondering how Mary manages. But then, she's a pretty unusual person herself...


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#17 SherlockedCAMPer

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:05 PM

That's probably how Mary manages, being a bit unusual and dangerous in her own right.

"Killing me is so 2 years ago."  "I'm a high-functioning sociopath! Do your research!" -Sherlock (This explains so much of what goes through my head but never comes out.) "Should I be impressed?" -Wenceslas S1.3  ~Jenn, Jenny, or Jennifer, not Jen (there's a story to this besides being inspired by Louise)


#18 T.o.b.y

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:02 PM

I think John is very male. If he were real and we were to meet, I don't think we'd have a single thing to say to each other. I can get along with manly men professionally, but I don't have a single friend who is like that, and there's a reason, that being that I don't understand masculinity and have zero interests in common with most guys.


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#19 Shadow Dweller

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:03 AM

"John, let's be friends." I like him alright :lol:
We are Sherlockian, speculating is part of the fun ;) M is Mycroft, Moriarty, Mary and Magnussen. I am M, a fangirl :P "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

#20 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 14 April 2015 - 12:21 AM

Since I've always enjoyed things like math and logic that most females aren't interested in (or think they're not "supposed" to be interested in), I've hung out with guys a lot, starting in school and continuing into my computer career.  Maybe that's why I've never had the impression that I'd feel awkward around John.  He just seems like a decent guy that I'd enjoy meeting.

 

P.S.:  It'd be different if John were the British equivalent of a good ol' boy, but I don't get that vibe from him.

 


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