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French Sherlocked


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31 replies to this topic

#21 Janyss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 01:10 PM

Hi HerlockSholmes,
"gosse" is of course a good translation, but it is a more général word than "morveux". "Un gosse" can be very nice, affective...I think the English word for "gosse" would be more "kid", and to translate the negative connotation of " brat", you can say "sale gosse".

Monty Python..I like them, not a surprise they play on the absurd side of translations.

I have rewatched the tea scene, indeed the translation in French adds a few words to BC's zones, which brings more sarcasm. The sarcastic tone is more conveyed by the actor, Hikari is right.

#22 HerlockSholmes

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 02:55 PM

Thanks for that Janyss. I’ve found out previously that these online translators, whilst useful, can often miss the subtleties of the language.
An example of this that affected me was when I first got a Russian Sherlock Holmes series from the 1980’s on dvd. The series was very enjoyable but was marred by subtitles which were often poorly written. Probably by a Russian who spoke English.
Regards, Herlock
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#23 Janyss

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 03:39 PM

Hi, for some reason, a message I posted earlier doesn't appear. Hope there won't be any double.

 

Yes, "gosse" is a good translation, but if you want to convey the negative connotation of "brat", I think you would say "sale gosse". "Kid" is more neutral for "gosse".

 

Translation is something very interesting, I'm not surprised Monty Python played with the absurd side in some of them. I like them very much, and also many British programs, in fact. The 60's Avengers were aired in original version on French TV when I was a teenager, I think I began loving English with that. Later I saw The new statesmen. so, happy to be back to a British program!



#24 Hikari

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 04:04 PM

 

 

Hi everybody,
Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).
Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!


Mycroft: I'll be Mother.
Sherlock: And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

J.,

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well. It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis. I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too.

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'. This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child. We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother. That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen. Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

So, what is French for 'brat'? Maybe we even stole that word from you! Le brat!

Hi Hikari,

I just used an online translator and typed in ‘brat’ which came up as ‘gosse.’ Janyss can tell us if it’s correct.

I’m wary of translations after seeing a Monty Python sketch many years ago. It was about a guy who wrote a Hungarian Phrase book but the translations were all wrong. So you see a guy entering a shop, checking his Phrasebook and saying things like ‘please fondle my buttocks.’ Or ‘my hovercraft is full of eels.’

 

 

 

All things considered, 'my hovercraft is full of eels' would earn some funny looks, but is less damaging than 'Please fondle my buttocks'.  Because you know that some unscrupulous persons would take advantage of a foreigner to do just that.  And in this day and age, God knows, you can find plenty of folks willing to fondle your buttocks without your intentional permission in one's own country!


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#25 HerlockSholmes

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:24 PM


Hi everybody,
Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).
Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

Mycroft: I'll be Mother.
Sherlock: And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

J.,

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well. It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis. I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too.

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'. This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child. We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother. That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen. Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

So, what is French for 'brat'? Maybe we even stole that word from you! Le brat!
Hi Hikari,

I just used an online translator and typed in ‘brat’ which came up as ‘gosse.’ Janyss can tell us if it’s correct.

I’m wary of translations after seeing a Monty Python sketch many years ago. It was about a guy who wrote a Hungarian Phrase book but the translations were all wrong. So you see a guy entering a shop, checking his Phrasebook and saying things like ‘please fondle my buttocks.’ Or ‘my hovercraft is full of eels.’


All things considered, 'my hovercraft is full of eels' would earn some funny looks, but is less damaging than 'Please fondle my buttocks'. Because you know that some unscrupulous persons would take advantage of a foreigner to do just that. And in this day and age, God knows, you can find plenty of folks willing to fondle your buttocks without your intentional permission in one's own country!

Congratulations on your promotion Hikari👍
Regards, Herlock
"There is nothing more deceptive than an obvious fact."

#26 Hikari

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 10:55 PM

Thanks, Herlock.

 

You are still my sempai (senior officer) in all things Ripper & probably Sherlock, too, though I am burning rubber to catch up to you.

 

When we both make Consulting Detective, I will stand you a drink at the Criterion Bar, what say you?


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#27 Hikari

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

Janyss,

 

This is off the topic of Sherlock, but since we were speaking about French actors, I have to say that Fabrice Luchini is absolutely charming.

 

I enjoyed him very much in "Gemma Bovery", where his understated comedy skills made a rather slight movie into a favorite of mine.  It is a modern sort-of retelling of "Emma Bovary".  Have you heard of it?


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#28 HerlockSholmes

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 02:21 PM

Thanks, Herlock.

You are still my sempai (senior officer) in all things Ripper & probably Sherlock, too, though I am burning rubber to catch up to you.

When we both make Consulting Detective, I will stand you a drink at the Criterion Bar, what say you?


Sounds good to me Hikari👍
Regards, Herlock
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#29 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 01:11 AM

[....]  We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother.  That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen.  Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

 

My head-canon (Janyss, "head canon" means something that has not actually been shown on Sherlock, but which a certain fan likes to believe is true) is similar to yours, except that I've been thinking Mummy was still alive and Daddy was no longer in the picture (probably due to divorce).  Even though the parents they finally showed us don't quite fit that description, I still find them believable -- partly because I like them, and partly because Mummy is clearly the one in charge.  If that was already the case during Sherlock's childhood, Mycroft could very well have been his "father figure," regardless of his legal status.


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#30 HerlockSholmes

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 10:36 AM

I wonder how long it will be before someone writes a biography of ‘Sherlock’ just like the various biographies of Holmes (like Baring-Gould for eg) ?

Isn’t it strange how we have to talk about ‘Sherlock’ and ‘Holmes?’🙂
Regards, Herlock
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#31 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:54 AM

I wonder how long it will be before someone writes a biography of ‘Sherlock’ just like the various biographies of Holmes (like Baring-Gould for eg) ?
Isn’t it strange how we have to talk about ‘Sherlock’ and ‘Holmes?’🙂


Strange but fortunate, I think. If they'd both been called the same thing, we'd have to resort to some awkward phrases in order to make the distinction.

But yeah, I hadn't thought of that idea, but now that you mention it, a "biography" of Sherlock does seem inevitable, doesn't it?
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#32 Janyss

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 03:27 PM

Hikari, "Gemma Bovery" reminds me of something,  but I couldn't see it.

 

Nice to read from you about Fabrice Luchini, many people love him! Not so much iconic as Gérard Depardieu, but so good! Fabrice would be a good Victorian Sherlock Holmes!