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Jim Moriarty


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#1 Artemis

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:18 AM

I couldn't find a character thread for Moriarty, so I thought I'd start one.

 

 


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#2 Artemis

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Posted 10 January 2018 - 08:20 AM

I came across this bit of theory earlier: *Jim* is not Moriarty.

I've always liked the idea of a Moriarty sibling and would have been interested to see it on the show.  I could even have accepted Eurus as Moriarty's sister, more than I can accept her as a Holmes.

 

 


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#3 Van Buren Supernova

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 01:28 AM

That is interesting read.

I don't know, as much as I want Moriarty back, I think exploring the potential of another Moriarty might be an overkill. It could enter territory of those dramas that cheapen their character's death by bringing them back, twin, fake death (cough) although, technically, it's not the same person.

I was not aware about BBC Sherlock, the only person who asked me about it was my boss (too bad I'm working for his brothers now) when we were discussing other BBC stuffs, but I wasn't too interested to find out more.
Then I read in GoT forum couple of years ago when a user commented that he loves GoT because characters really dies, unlike that show Sherlock. Still, it didn't registered (good because otherwise I'd experience TRF differently) but I remember thinking 'must be a lousy drama' and when Mark appeared as GoT character, he was remembered as Sherlock's brother.
Until one day I ran out of things to watch and downloaded it (I bought the DVD later!)

So yes, I think there is potential that bringing another Moriarty would invite a lot of criticism of inability to let go of character. I love Moriarty, I would watch him back, but I still believe the writers have potential to create another great villain (although I don't feel S4 villain fascinating, I don't think they are bad).

Maybe someone like Khan.
No, no, no, it has nothing to do with my fascination with Khan. :whistle:
I want to see Sherlock dealing with that kind of villain, someone who does bad thing not because they are bad, someone grey and it's a matter of thin line that Sherlock himself had crossed before.
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#4 Artemis

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Posted 11 January 2018 - 07:13 AM

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about a Moriarty sibling post-S4.  But up to this point, I don't know that the introduction of a sibling would have been any more overkill than what they actually ended up doing with Moriarty after his death (which they have received a lot of criticism for anyway).  Moftiss has said that they've had trouble letting go of the character and were looking for every opportunity to bring him back for more screen time, which was the reason behind all his reappearances and weird sound effects videos and stuff in TFP.

 

 


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#5 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:41 PM

I'd much rather they had introduced his brother.  (Also played by Andrew Scott, of course.  I know it's a cliche, but he could've had a mustache, so we could tell them apart. ;) )  Then he could have actually done some new stuff, instead of just being in Sherlock's head or in flashbacks.  And it's canon!  (The Professor had one brother named Col. James Moriarty, and also had a brother -- possibly the same one -- who was a station master.)

 

 


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#6 Janyss

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Posted 12 January 2018 - 08:50 PM

Very interesting...there would be a logic to show another brotherhood, compare it with Sherlock and Mycroft's...
I love Jim Moriarty as a living character and as a dead one who remains threatening. I love his relation with Sherlock and the fact that he commits suicide. The actor is great, too. I just don't really believe in his partnership with Irène Adler (but I don't like the episode very much) and I would have liked to see more interaction with Euros.

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#7 Arcadia

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 12:41 AM

I'd much rather they had introduced his brother.  (Also played by Andrew Scott, of course.  I know it's a cliche, but he could've had a mustache, so we could tell them apart. ;) )

 

It's never twins!


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#8 Artemis

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 01:39 AM

I'd much rather they had introduced his brother. (Also played by Andrew Scott, of course. I know it's a cliche, but he could've had a mustache, so we could tell them apart. ;) ) Then he could have actually done some new stuff, instead of just being in Sherlock's head or in flashbacks. And it's canon! (The Professor had one brother named Col. James Moriarty, and also had a brother -- possibly the same one -- who was a station master.)


I agree.

I almost wonder if they were setting it up for this possibility by mentioning his brother the station master in TFP. Interesting that someone as “successful” at his chosen path as Jim would have been jealous of his brother’s (assuming Eurus was correct, and that she meant Jim was the jealous one and not the other way around). Jealous of what, I wonder.

Also, she said he “was” a station master. I wonder what he’s up to these days, if he’s still around.

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#9 Hikari

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 06:48 PM

I'd much rather they had introduced his brother.  (Also played by Andrew Scott, of course.  I know it's a cliche, but he could've had a mustache, so we could tell them apart. ;) )  Then he could have actually done some new stuff, instead of just being in Sherlock's head or in flashbacks.  And it's canon!  (The Professor had one brother named Col. James Moriarty, and also had a brother -- possibly the same one -- who was a station master.)

 

That would have been prime!  I'd have loved to see Andrew Scott playing a dual Moriarty.

 

So many ways they could have gone with the 'Did you Miss Me?' scenario . . and we see what they chose, a drug-fueled psychotic break called 'The Abominable Bride'. 

 

Given Jim's youth and the fact that he was not presented as an academic type but rather the uber-Millennial, I thought perhaps that he was meant to be the younger Moriarty, the kid brother who was the frontman for the actual brains behind the outfit, aka The Professor.   Then it would have been a matched pair of genius brothers, the Moriartys vs the Holmes boys.  The two younger bros have their little quarrels, ending with the suicide of Jim on the rooftop--the technologically brills but psychotic loose cannon younger sibling . . and hey, maybe he'd even spent time as a teen incarcerated in the same institution as Eurus, until he devised a way to break out.  With the death of Jim, Professor James comes to the forefront, and the two Big Ms could have had a showdown as well, for symmetry.

 

P.S.  How is it possible that we made it all the way to 2018 with no Jim Moriarty thread??  Bizarre!


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#10 Arcadia

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Posted 13 January 2018 - 09:14 PM

I was wondering the same thing ... no Moriarty thread? :wacko:

 

I was one who wasn't anxious to have Moriarty back, but after reading those scenarios ... yeah, bring him on! (Bring on anyone, actually, I miss this show!)


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#11 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 07:52 AM

(Bring on anyone, actually, I miss this show!)

 

I second that -- well, anyone except Eurus.  (Brilliant performance, but....)


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#12 Arcadia

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 08:16 AM

Aw, I thought she was rather neat. She was just in the wrong show. She would have fit right in on Buffy. :D

 

Actually, in the first two episodes she was great. Still can't figure out how she hid all that long dark hair, though.


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#13 Carol the Dabbler

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:33 AM

I was really fond of -- what was supposed to be her name as the red-headed gal on the bus, Elizabeth?  I could certainly understand why John would be attracted to her.


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#14 T.o.b.y

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 01:53 PM

I think Eurus might have worked a lot better if they had taken more time to explore the character and / or made her and Moriarty the same person or at least more intricately connected.
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#15 Janyss

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 09:55 PM

I was wondering the same thing ... no Moriarty thread? :wacko:

 

I was one who wasn't anxious to have Moriarty back, but after reading those scenarios ... yeah, bring him on! (Bring on anyone, actually, I miss this show!)

 

I miss it much, too...That is why I don't like rewatching the very end of the last episode, and yet I love TFP so much! But in the last scene, there are too many echoes of the pilot, and that makes me think the writers wanted to stop it at that: the text on the phone is the same as the one sent to Lestrade after the press conference, and Mary's last words ("Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson!") are the ones of the end of the pilot, when Mycroft mentions the two guys to order surveillance. 

 

And to come back to Moriarty...Not Moriarty-Andrew Scott enough in the show. Definitely.


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#16 Arcadia

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Posted 14 January 2018 - 10:13 PM

I think Eurus might have worked a lot better if they had taken more time to explore the character and / or made her and Moriarty the same person or at least more intricately connected.

 
Oh, absolutely. One of my lasting impressions of both His Last Vow and all of S4 is that they tried to cram too much story into too little time. I think both Mary's death and the revelation of who Elizabeth/Faith really was would have been far more successful if we'd had another season or so to get used to their characters. As it is, Mary just seems tossed away, and Eurus just seems to come out of nowhere. But I do like her character.

 

ETA: actually, it's really only TFP that seems pressed for time. TLD is about perfect, imo. :wub:
 

 

I was wondering the same thing ... no Moriarty thread? :wacko:
 
I was one who wasn't anxious to have Moriarty back, but after reading those scenarios ... yeah, bring him on! (Bring on anyone, actually, I miss this show!)

 
I miss it much, too...That is why I don't like rewatching the very end of the last episode, and yet I love TFP so much! But in the last scene, there are too many echoes of the pilot, and that makes me think the writers wanted to stop it at that: the text on the phone is the same as the one sent to Lestrade after the press conference, and Mary's last words ("Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson!") are the ones of the end of the pilot, when Mycroft mentions the two guys to order surveillance.

 

 
Yep, they clearly left it where it could be over for good. :( 
 
I have a theory, though, that Moffat at least hopes to bring it back again when the boys are a bit older ... because I remember something at one of the conventions where he made reference to how John and Sherlock would change as they aged. The audience sort of booed, and Mark had to explain to Steven that they were booing because they didn't want the boys to get older. And Moffat teased them (the audience) about that. It was kind of cute, that's why I remember it. At any rate, it makes me hope that Steven has a story in mind.
 
Mark, though ... at a different interview, after S4 aired, he was standing behind Steven when Steven said something about Sherlock might be back someday, and Mark shook his head "no". Maybe he was responding to something else, but it sure looked ominous. :(


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