Shoot the Wall (A.K.A. The Rant Thread)

[Carol the Dabbler]

I've always used a female name and avatar, and don't offhand recall any personally-awkward online moments -- but then my forums have all been based on discussion (gardening, healthful food, TV shows, etc), which may help by giving a non-personal focus.

Added:  Plus, except for the Magnum PI forum, most of the other members have been female, which would tend to minimize certain types of awkward situations (though it could increase other types).

[Pseudonym]

I think it definitely depends on the type of forum. Most of mine are either mainly female or on a particular subject so everyone focuses on that. I remember posting on a particular health forum years ago and immediately getting some harassment. 

I look rough AF today, I'm wearing a pair of leggings that are covered in fluff and trainers (I never wear trainers unless exercising) because I'm having trouble with my foot. I wasn't intending to leave the office in these clothes other than to walk across the street to my car, but I remembered I had to post a parcel so just dragged myself off to the shop, and got very, very pointedly looked up and down by a guy who came in. I'm not sure if he was also thinking I look shitty, or if he was perving on the fact my jumper is a bit too short to be wearing with leggings. Either way I could have done without it. 

[T.o.b.y]

14 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

What did they say was wrong with the car?  If I were you, I'd get a second opinion, or at least ask them if there are any options for repair.  Sometimes our garage has neglected to tell us that kind of stuff, maybe thinking we're like most people and can't wait for an excuse to buy a new car.

A repair would cost more than the car is worth and it's doubtful whether it would even be successful. Germany is stricter than the US about what standards your car has to meet to be allowed on the road, so we will likely run into trouble with the permit too. 

My mother said, be glad it's happening like this instead of the old car just breaking down somewhere at the most inconvenient time. And I agree with her. But still... 

[Pseudonym]

Very true, my last car died whilst I was doing 70mph on the motorway. 

[Hikari]

@VBS,

Your experiences of being cyberhassled because you were a girl winning the game, or cyber-hit upon because you were a girl, period, are interesting, if a bit depressing.  This is how pervasive sexism runs, I guess.  Personally I think the #MeToo movement has gone a bit too far, but you could definitely join up.  Frankly, some women who are jumping on this bandwagon have only the same kinds of verbal interactions you do to report and they are milking the victim card for all it's worth.  Not that I think it's OK for men to disparage or sexualize women (even complete cyberstrangers) in any context . . .it's not OK, but it happens.  People say things all the time that result in hurt or aggrieved feelings and many times, it's by friends and family.  I'd like to reserve my sympathies for real victims of sexual assault . . being wolf-whistled at by construction workers (which construction workers have been doing no doubt since Ancient Egypt) does not rise to the level of sexual assault, IMO.  But the equivalent happens online too.  Next time I join a cyber community, maybe I'll consider posing as a dude. 

[T.o.b.y]

My husband often uses a female avatar when playing online computer games because he usually prefers those characters. And he has certainly had some interesting interactions with people who automatically assume that the player must be female also... Most of the time, he finds it mildly amusing but there have been a few really nasty people. 

[J.P.]

I have this kind of build-in anxiety about not being taken seriously in a discussion - as a woman.

And I think in many areas my way of thinking is… if not more male than female, then definitely typically female. (emale - if you want )
So talking war movies - I just keep it ambiguous.

[Arcadia]

17 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

I'm about to get my first car in May. And I am 20 over years late from normal car age I suppose.

Reading about how you feel with your cars, maybe I should exercise 'Don't love it so you won't be sad when it's taken from you'? But it never works!

So I think I will just happily decorate it with Sherlock's stuffs. Planning to do block letter (as I love Scrabble) saying High Functioning Sociopath. Keep Your distance. Is it too cute? . For my defense, I don't think most people here would get the reference, they probably just think I'm just a lunatic.

Well, they'd be right, wouldn't they?   

[Arcadia]

11 hours ago, Hikari said:

@VBS,

Your experiences of being cyberhassled because you were a girl winning the game, or cyber-hit upon because you were a girl, period, are interesting, if a bit depressing.  This is how pervasive sexism runs, I guess.  Personally I think the #MeToo movement has gone a bit too far, but you could definitely join up.  Frankly, some women who are jumping on this bandwagon have only the same kinds of verbal interactions you do to report and they are milking the victim card for all it's worth.  Not that I think it's OK for men to disparage or sexualize women (even complete cyberstrangers) in any context . . .it's not OK, but it happens.  People say things all the time that result in hurt or aggrieved feelings and many times, it's by friends and family.  I'd like to reserve my sympathies for real victims of sexual assault . . being wolf-whistled at by construction workers (which construction workers have been doing no doubt since Ancient Egypt) does not rise to the level of sexual assault, IMO......

I'm partially inclined to agree ... but on the other hand, I think if people get called out every time they transgress, they are far more likely to learn better behavior than if their victim just shrugs and keeps walking. There's been many times when I've seen girls allow boys to get away with far too much ... which just encourages them to go further, the next time. I've seen other girls slap guys for going too far, and are respected more as a result. Every situation is different, of course, but on the whole I think I'd rather condemn bad behavior than pretend it doesn't bother me. Just in hopes it will improve the situation for the next girl, I guess.

[Carol the Dabbler]

7 hours ago, Pseudonym said:

I think it definitely depends on the type of forum. Most of mine are either mainly female or on a particular subject so everyone focuses on that. I remember posting on a particular health forum years ago and immediately getting some harassment.

What kind of harassment -- and what kind of "health"?  I've been on a couple of healthful-foods forums and don't recall anyone being hassled.  I can imagine that some might be sort of clannish, but I've never run into such a place myself.

4 hours ago, Hikari said:

Frankly, some women who are jumping on this bandwagon have only the same kinds of verbal interactions you do to report and they are milking the victim card for all it's worth.  Not that I think it's OK for men to disparage or sexualize women (even complete cyberstrangers) in any context . . .it's not OK, but it happens.

... and if you doubt that the reverse is also true, just read the things being said right here about one Benedict Cumberbatch.  Think he could sue the forum for sexual harassment?

Nevertheless, you have my sympathy, Pseud.  Gone (long gone!) are the days when I wore a skirt and nylons any time I went into town.  It's not like I'm going to a party, after all!

[Van Buren Supernova]

16 hours ago, Hikari said:

@VBS,

Your experiences of being cyberhassled because you were a girl winning the game, or cyber-hit upon because you were a girl, period, are interesting, if a bit depressing. 

Indeed. I thought it was all fun and was taken aback of how nasty some jerks could be. Apparently winning big or keep winning is not a right way to do for a girl. It's virtual coins, good for nothing, and not that it's possible to cheat. That's from multiple stranger players, who interestingly, have their actual photo as avatars (at least it seems so, i believe they signed in with their facebook, which prove they are not so smart after all). And the nastiness stopped once I change my avatar to generic male.

12 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Most of the time, he finds it mildly amusing but there have been a few really nasty people. 

I guess we can sort of conclude that cyberballs must be bigger than actual balls. Sort of...

 

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Well, they'd be right, wouldn't they?   

I can't see your gif. I detect mockery but I think you have a point there.

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

 I think if people get called out every time they transgress, they are far more likely to learn better behavior than if their victim just shrugs and keeps walking. There's been many times when I've seen girls allow boys to get away with far too much ... which just encourages them to go further, the next time. I've seen other girls slap guys for going too far, and are respected more as a result. Every situation is different, of course, but on the whole I think I'd rather condemn bad behavior than pretend it doesn't bother me. Just in hopes it will improve the situation for the next girl, I guess.

Yes agree. 

But like you said, every situation is different, because sadly, it's often not safe to confront those nasty boys.  Imo, most of those jerks do what they do because they believe they can get away with it. Either they have back-ups, it's their turf, or because they think their targets are not capable to fight back. Some retaliation could be consider as provocation for them to act even nastier or even make them stalkerish.

 

Again, from my experience, most jerks don't have actual balls but mostly collective (when they are with identical jerky friends) or chauvinist ball (when they assume certain type of female are weaker). I had couple of confrontations about those behaviors, mostly with more than one guy and very lucky to get away with it and hopefully with them learning the lesson, but I always played the scenario in my head about how it could go really, really wrong.

So, safety first I guess.. although anger actually disconnect some wires from the brain to consider further repercussions. In that case, my advice, hit hard!! With words.. or..

[T.o.b.y]

That's a really good point, VBS. A lot of harassment goes unchecked and unrebuked because it simply would not be safe to retaliate. 

This is another point to consider when people wonder why certain things are only spoken about so much later than they actually happened. 

I think one aspect of the current public discussion is that there is a desire to change what is seen as normal and acceptable. In some cases, guys are being called out for behavior that was socially accepted when and where it occurred. I completely understand that they find it unfair that they're being villainized for just going with the flow twenty years ago but on the other hand, just because something is the norm doesn't make it right and norms can and should change. 

My attitude towards those cases is, yeah, okay, you didn't know any better. But now it's 2018 and we would really like to change a few things about how men and women interact so don't do it again. Thanks. I mean, if my grandparents learned not to use the n-word and to accept openly gay people, I really think you could learn not to grope women. 

[HerlockSholmes]

Sorry but what’s a ‘gif?’

[T.o.b.y]

1 hour ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Sorry but what’s a ‘gif?’

An image that moves. Gif is the format, like jpg for a digital picture. 

[Arcadia]

6 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

That's a really good point, VBS. A lot of harassment goes unchecked and unrebuked because it simply would not be safe to retaliate. 

This is another point to consider when people wonder why certain things are only spoken about so much later than they actually happened. 

I think one aspect of the current public discussion is that there is a desire to change what is seen as normal and acceptable. In some cases, guys are being called out for behavior that was socially accepted when and where it occurred. I completely understand that they find it unfair that they're being villainized for just going with the flow twenty years ago but on the other hand, just because something is the norm doesn't make it right and norms can and should change. 

My attitude towards those cases is, yeah, okay, you didn't know any better. But now it's 2018 and we would really like to change a few things about how men and women interact so don't do it again. Thanks. I mean, if my grandparents learned not to use the n-word and to accept openly gay people, I really think you could learn not to grope women. 

Agree completely.

 

[HerlockSholmes]

3 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

An image that moves. Gif is the format, like jpg for a digital picture. 

Thanks T.o.b.y 👍

[Van Buren Supernova]

Since we are talking about car sometime back..

I want to sort of b*tching about something that came to my mind yesterday.

I ride motorcycle, had done it in places where motorcycle is considered exclusive and 'cool' because it's super difficult to get the license, and in area where it is just another very common transportation method. Had relax easy scooter style and something similar to what Sherlock hijacked in TEH, known more as 'male bike', but nothing too fancy.

In both scenarios and situations, thinking back, I have to say there is a lot of facility discrimination against motorcycle, most notably, parking spaces.

One of the advantages for motorcycle in certain area, is easier parking spaces. Taking little area, they can convert some lane or back of shop houses etc into parking spots. And in places with less stringent regulation, it's possible to just park in front of where you are going, provided you only need to leave the bike for short while.

However, those commercial places, mall, office, hospital tend to dump motorcycle parking in very inconvenient area. Like yesterday, I found out the place I used to patron if I want a nice cup of afternoon coffee, some sort of hospital/mall hybrid, had kicked out all its motorcycle parking to practically another plot behind. It has shabby shelter, and there is quite a distance to walk, unshaded, through back area to reach the entrance. They also raise the parking fee, probably to fund that new acquired plot. Previously, we parked in the basement that still has direct access to the establishment.

This actually happens very often that motorcycle parking is located far away, practically another block, even in some airport. Most times it is also not disable/trolley or even pedestrian friendly to reach there. 

I get that they probably thinking that motorcyclists don't bring big stuff, or most probably healthy enough to walk. But we carry heavy stuff as well and sometimes we have passenger that is not typical motorcyclist. And at the very least, it doesn't hurt for driver to walk under the sun or rain once in a while, while we practically have to do that all the time getting there. Also, it doesn't take much to provide motorcycle parking in the same building, at very least, there should be options, instead of kicking it out altogether. Economically, motorcycle parking and space they take are equivalent to car, in term of how much we pay.

Oh, some do have special parking spot for 'big bike' as in those super expensive Harley and Ducati, which is again, pretty annoying.

That goes also for establishments that reject and have zero parking for motorcycles. Some because they associate motorcyclist with costumer with less buying power. It is fine if they make it clear. There was one time we had to do something in this shopping district area, and struggled to find parking. Then I found one that clearly stated motorcycle parking. We were even ushered in the entrance by security that confirmed it's okay for us to go in. But when we went around, floor to floor, we couldn't find a single spot, and had to exit eventually. That ten minutes cost us 16 dollar, which is weird and I strongly suspect they only had the rate for cars. We were very pissed, but in hurry, so we left and paid without the time to complain.

Oh well, just because of yesterday.

[Arcadia]

I have to say, around here at least, there's no problem. Motorcycles just take a regular car space for the most part. In a few places they'll have special parking spots, but they're scattered amongst the car spaces, not stuck off somewhere. Although the proportion of motorcycles to cars around here is pretty low; neither our traffic nor our weather are very accommodating. And scooters ... they're not allowed on major thoroughfares (too slow) so we hardly ever see those at all. Bicycles are more popular than scooters, here, and in most places bicycle parking is right next to the building.

I never will forget, though, driving to work one day, and I got behind a guy on a scooter. An enormous guy. Wearing an enormous parka. On a tiny scooter. I couldn't stop laughing. I know, I know, shame on me.....

[Arcadia]

Oh, and we have bike paths. Lots of bike paths. They do like to encourage the bicyclists. They've also started installing stations where you can recharge your electric car while it's parked. At first everyone scoffed, but now those spaces are almost always taken. And they've redesigned the streets downtown to encourage more foot traffic; wider sidewalks. Sometimes I actually have hope for humanity.

[Carol the Dabbler]

11 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I never will forget, though, driving to work one day, and I got behind a guy on a scooter. An enormous guy. Wearing an enormous parka. On a tiny scooter. I couldn't stop laughing. I know, I know, shame on me.....

According to my brother (who knows about such things) a lot of the people putt-putting along on those little scooters have lost their driver's license.  Apparently Indiana classifies the really little scooters with bicycles, so you don't need a license.

[Arcadia]

Aha. Makes sense. They're never going to get them back if they don't stay off certain roads...

[Van Buren Supernova]

Not sure what happened.

Been trying to post. First time, I was kicked out mid posting. When I logged back in, my draft was still there. So I finished it and post, and pretty sure it's already submitted and became part of the thread. So I logged out.

And blam, now it seems like it never exists. Aiz. 

[T.o.b.y]

2 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Not sure what happened.

Been trying to post. First time, I was kicked out mid posting. When I logged back in, my draft was still there. So I finished it and post, and pretty sure it's already submitted and became part of the thread. So I logged out.

And blam, now it seems like it never exists. Aiz. 

That sounds very frustrating. What thread were you trying to post in? 

[Carol the Dabbler]

VBS, I've been having similar problems, or at least I think they might be similar.  Seems like tapping the Submit Reply button doesn't always actually submit the reply.  Sometimes all that happens is that the virtual keyboard goes away, and I need to tap the button again, or even several times, until the label on the button changes to Saving, and then my post shows up as an actual post (i.e., without the editor buttons).  I seem to be having this sort of problem far more now than with the old software.  But if I'm very careful to check that my post is really posted, the problem seems to be surmountable.

Dunno if that's what happened to you or not, though.

[Pseudonym]

Why do evenings go by so fast when days go by so slow?