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gerry
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Days Won
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Posts posted by gerry
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On 4/3/2018 at 7:55 AM, Hikari said:
.....but I confess to being curious about why you choose to watch the show/participate in our discussions when you seem to be consistently hostile toward Sherlock as a character. ....
How do you feel about Jim Moriarty? Do you think he's the true hero of our piece and just misunderstood?
I watched the show because I found Sherlock to be an interesting protagonist which is the same reason I watched Walter White or am watching Raymond Reddington. I don’t find him evil a la Moriarty but I don’t find him heroic either. I don’t find people who treat people poorly even those he claims are friends, who murder in cold blood, whose arrogance is so high that he egged on a gun wielding woman which lead to the death of his best friend’s wife, let his best friend believe he was dead for two years while having no concept of said best friend’s feelings on the topic, etc. heroic or all that reflective of a good person. That doesn’t even count how he has treated women like Molly and Janine. I do believe his love for John and Mrs. H. is genuine but everyone else not so sure. Either way, how he chooses to behave leaves a lot to be desired, that’s for sure.
I’m not hostile towards Sherlock, I just find the excuses I read here for his behavior both fascinating and confounding. No matter how deplorable Sherlock is, it’s somehow ok. It’s blind love I guess.
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11 hours ago, Hikari said:
So SH can be casually cruel/flippant toward her, wheedle her into doing his dirty work and be otherwise incredibly thoughtless, but when his back was to the wall, she was his go-to person. Kind of just like a sibling relationship in fact.
That describes his relationship with Mycroft but not sure about Molly. When brothers insult a sister it doesn’t usually include their boobs or other body parts. ETA:Mary and Sherlock had a much more brother/sister vibe to me and it didn’t require a bunch of cruel insults.
Maybe a better way of asking my question is this. If you think of someone as a sibling, which is more or less of a safe person in your life to you, why would that invoke a defensive response? Also in the context of the scene, I fail to see what was done to him that would elicit a defensive response. He was a bastard to John’s girlfriend too. Is he afraid of her getting too close to him too? This defenive response excuse just makes no sense to me given his overall behavior, in that scene or otherwise. No one was holding a gun to his head to make him stay at the xmas party. Maybe it’s as simple as he just likes being a bastard when he feels like it. -
4 hours ago, Hikari said:
I choose the path of believing that Sherlock's insults to Molly are personalized to especially wound as a defense mechanism.
You choose to believe it so it’s not based in anything that happened in the show?
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1 hour ago, Pseudonym said:
why so nasty to Molly?
Because Sherlock doesn’t respect her? I can’t imagine him crossing that kind of line with Mrs. H so the fact he is capable to do so with Molly doesn’t say much for what he thinks of her. His attitude towards Molly was actually pretty similar as it was towards John’s girlfriend.
Greg and John’s facial expressions during that scene are the only thing I enjoyed.
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the fact that all it takes for her to be fine is for sherlock to mention that John got her a present and to say merry Christmas with a kiss on the cheek is truly insulting. The aired scene still sucks though. ironically that script directions is pretty much what Moffat said about the ILY call follow up so I guess he didn’t really understand the reason why LB wanted it changed. He definitely must view Molly as pathetic since his scripts certainly write her that way.
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The show was definitely much better when the stakes amped up and he was getting caught combined with Gus/drug cartel angle. I couldn’t wait for him to get his comeuppance so I was very satisfied by the finale. I also found the drug empire building really interesting actually. Ironically I found it an amazing and brilliant show but I’d never watch it again. Too dark a subject matter.
Re the marriage... I didn’t find either Skylar or Walter to be much of a prize so I guess that may be why she isn’t all that polarizing for me. You know what I mean?
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11 hours ago, Boton said:
I mean, with a life like that, you are basically just personal scruples away from a decision to become a meth king.
LOL! I’m not sure I’d go that far. He loved the danger of going against Gus, almost getting caught by his BIL, manipulating Jesse and the ego of having the best meth out there. None of that had anything to do with WJ having disabilities or what his wife was like. To me they are mutually exclusive. I mean at one point he had the financial security without having to go back to the crappy job and to offset leaving the biotech firm but he didn’t want to stop so doesn’t that prove he just liked being a drug lord rather than him being forced into it?
RE Skylar, I didn’t hate her but I defintely found her annoying at times in season 1/2. I thought the same about Marie but i really came to like Marie by the end of the show. I didn’t realize there was so much fan vitriol about Skylar until I read message boards after watching the show. I was surprised there was such a passionate response to that character because I didn’t quite understand what made her so polarizing for people.
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16 hours ago, J.P. said:
Gerry, I rather believe that the lower quality of S4 is a result of growing pressure, so everyone was tired and fed up and just wanted to end it ASAP, maybe even by squeezing planned storylines from two seasons into one. The lower quality is not the reason why they don't want to go on with the show, it's the other way round.
To me S4 feels like a panic attack.
But as I said, it's only my little conspiracy theory.
The lower quality for me started in season 3 so I’d imagine they could see a decline in writing for awhile and for season 4 to have been a theoretical cram of two seasons or whatever they’d have had to decide season 4 was the end after season 3 or at the very least before season 4 was filmed. However I still think if the general fans still liked it or critics received it well or the writing was still good they’d find the time to do another series despite the obnoxious fanatics.
They’re pretty soft though if perceived fan pressure makes their writing worse. Look at GoT and the expectations between series from fans. There isn’t whining from the creators/actors of that show about fan expectations/theories or using that as an excuse for the quality of the show. I’m sure that show also has crazy fans too as well.
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On 3/12/2018 at 3:06 PM, Boton said:
Someone mentioned Walter White above. For me, I didn't like Walter, but I felt a connection to him because every dumb a$$ thing he did was a response to life kicking him while he was down, repeatedly and without mercy.
I’m not sure I agree with your assessment of Walter White. Not all cancer victims become meth cooks with a penchant for building a drug empire as a result of their plight. Seems more like his cancer gave him the excuse to act on the narcissism that was always there considering how much he enjoyed what he was doing. He admitted as much to Skylar in season 5. Also his missing out on that money from the bio firm was self inflicted since he left them, not the other way around. I just didn’t view him as a victim of his circumstances, especially not after all he did in season 4 and 5. I felt far worse for Jesse even though his Yo!s started to grate a bit, lol.
On 3/13/2018 at 1:30 AM, T.o.b.y said:I doubt that other kids had a problem with Sherlock's intelligence, it was probably more the way in which he expressed it... If his adult behavior is anything to go by.
Precisely.
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On 3/22/2018 at 10:12 AM, T.o.b.y said:
I doubt that Sherlock is "big" for people like the lead actors these days. They are getting major roles in huge Hollywood franchises. I can imagine that a little BBC series does fall under "when I have nothing better to do" and I wouldn't even blame them for it.
It doesn’t seem like BC is only doing big productions post Sherlock though. he did that a child in time movie that is about to air on PBS so it seems like he doesn’t necessarily think he’s too big for smaller productions but is more interested in finding roles he’s interested in.
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On 3/16/2018 at 1:22 PM, J.P. said:
Something that seems to confirm this little conspiracy theory of mine.
Do you really think that if the show were still critically acclaimed by the general public and professional critics during/post season 4 or they still enjoyed the material that they wouldn’t find the time or interest to do the show? I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t. MF basically acknowledged the quality of the show in series 4 wasn’t the best then he went on to complain about the delusional johnlock shippers. My guess is the former holds more weight than the latter.
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Do you think they don’t see his brilliance or is his affect that worries them/makes them think he’s a freak. I think how much he enjoys it all so much is what makes them wonder if he isnt on the edge of being a criminal himself. Given his murdering magnussen and his interactions with Adler and moriarty the thought may be justified.
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9 hours ago, Arcadia said:
Not what I said. I said I need to feel a connection to the main character in order to find a story interesting.
Have you ever disliked a character you feel a connection to? Based on what you said I thought not which is why I think of the two concepts synomously.
Regarding characters like Donovan and Anderson, I have a hard time believing that kind of animosity towards Sherlock was ever unprovoked. Most people don’t anyway. Sherlock alluded to not many of the SY people being willing to work with Sherlock which would imply it’s his behavior that creates the animosity unless you believe it’s one big conspiracy against him. I could easily see Sherlock insulting or disparaging their knowledge or competence which lead them to despise and distrust Sherlock. Or by deducing them personally in an insulting manner which he does often as well.
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2 hours ago, Pseudonym said:
I can understand that. But I see a huge difference between him being briefly but deeply unpleasant to someone who is never going to see him again, and a younger version of him having to deal with a large group of people being unpleasant to him day in day out for years. If he's living in halls and going to the same classes there's no escape. So yea, the idea of him being bullied, if he was, bothers me a lot more.
So in your world no matter what he does or treats people it’s all good? Personally I think you reap what you sow. If you’re a dick to people why would they want to be friends with you? I didn’t get bullying from the script direction though, just an obvious acknowledgement that the way Sherlock behaves would not make people eager to be friends with him and likely make him disliked which is basically how the adults in the Sherlock series treat Sherlock too. Justifiably so because he brings it on himself. I’ve got zero sympathy for it. I’ll save my sympathy for the innocent people on the receiving end.
1 hour ago, Arcadia said:I think it's pretty common, actually, for people to empathize with the main character in a story. That's kind of the point in most stories, isn't it? For myself, I know I can't even watch/read a story unless I do ... why spend time with someone I don't feel some connection to? (It's hard enough spending time with people I DO feel a connection to!
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At any rate, it doesn't preclude me from also having sympathy for other characters. But my loyalty is to Sherlock. So if I had to choose between one or the other, or defending one over another .... yep, pretty sure I'd choose Sherlock.
Why would you have to like a main character to find the character interesting? I doubt people liked Walter White on Breaking Bad but that wasn’t the point of the show. It’s considered by many including myself to be one of the most brilliant shows ever made and it’s not because the main character is likable or relatable. Maybe he’s relatable if you’re a narcissistic meth cook but I’m guessing/hoping?! there aren’t many of those people in the world.
I also don’t see why liking a character should make you want to ignore his obvious character flaws and give everything he does a free pass or make excuses for it. Isn’t there room for objective assessments?
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It’s strange to me to feel sorry for Sherlock but not the people he’s a prick to.
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I’m surprised you dislike that so much but have little trouble with Sherlock berating the school headmistress in TRF. Was it you or someone else that thought it was funny?
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2 hours ago, Pseudonym said:
Again I don't think we'll agree, but I would feel sad for anyone if I heard that everyone hated them. I certainly wouldn't feel gleeful if I heard everyone hated one of my friends - they might not quite be friends at this point, but clearly they're on their way.
Even if they were friends I could see it because Sherlock is a prick to his friends too. Sherlock would not be an easy person to be around friend or not. I imagine you’d be exasperated often.
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Why is that sad? I’d be surprised more people wouldn’t feel the same give what a prick Sherlock is to everyone including those he’s supposed to consider a friend. There can be a eye for an eye sense of satisfaction knowing Sherlock got a taste of his own medicine especially when he likely didn’t give anyone a reason to care otherwise. I’m sure Sherlock would be hated by most in real life too based on his treatment of others.
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HLV being a whole lotta WTF is a perfect description.
Yeah TEH was a lot of slapstick humor so I can see why you thought it wasn’t very Sherlock. It did entertain me though because it did have authentic emotional reactions underneath the humor like John being very angry with Sherlock about being lied to even if the anger was mocked by the end.
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On 2/27/2018 at 10:09 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:
It's just that the show was originally very much to my liking, but since then has sporadically skewed off into some weird direction that I don't enjoy watching. If it were consistently that way, I'd simply stop watching, brilliant or not. But then the bastards mix in some truly delightful scenes....
This I agree with but the problem for me is that it got even worse, I just became bored. TSOT and T6T bored me especially. HLV I just didn’t like.
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Swiss tennis player. You don’t watch sports eh?
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For me plausibility isn’t about whether it would happen in real life since 99% of what occurs in entertainment wouldn’t happen in real life. Plausibility is more about whether you find what the characters are doing and saying under the circumstances to be believable or make sense. Of course what you find believable is influenced by what you experience in real life and how you react to the actor portrayals. Mary being a liar assasin who shot Sherlock wasn’t believable to me given the 2 prior episodes. They were going for shock value but it didn’t work for me.
Generally when people find that the characters are no longer believable or plausible in a show is when the show phrase “jumped the shark” was coined.
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9 hours ago, Hikari said:
And that's a very long answer to your brief question but it turns out that I'm a bit riled up on this subject. I believe Mary deserved better, and really, the whole cast deserved a more plausible final season. I think we the viewers surely did as well.
It just seems like they don’t plan ahead too far when they’re writing or if they do they don’t stick to the plan very closely from season to season which in the end is to the detriment of the show.
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I totally know what you mean! I’m constantly having to hem pants, either taking regular out or shortening the tall sizes. It’s like the tall sizes are meant for women 6’ or taller and the regular sizes are meant for a maximum of 5’9” but that I’m sure that depends on the brand and what size heel you wear. Also good luck finding tall sizes in stores, you usually have to order online and the selection is usually limited which is annoying.
I don’t have that much trouble with tops because styles are longer than they used to be. Ironically, pajamas and coats are worse for me.
Episode 2.1, "A Scandal In Belgravia"
in Series 2
Posted
I have never thought that Sherlock sees Molly, or Lestrade for that matter, as family. Friends or colleagues he cares about, maybe, but not family on the level of his relationships with Mrs. H or John. Also, If Molly’s feelings were so obvious to him which justifies his attitude towards her in the xmas scene, then why was Sherlock in the process of deducing that she had a boyfriend (other than him) that she was dressed up for? If Sherlock didn’t want to be there, I’m sure he could have found somewhere else to be, snow or not. Either way, he was an unprovoked jerk to everyone there. What crime did John’s girlfriend or Molly commit other than being invited to the party?
Do you really think Molly’s feelings have moderated? I thought the point of the ILY call scene was that they hadn’t which is why she said “because it’s true” while refusing to say it. If she had moved on to the wistful “if only...”, I don’t believe her response to the request would have been so strong. In fact, I thought the premise of the scene was because Molly wasn’t over her feelings for Sherlock, otherwise the scene wouldn’t have had any emotional impact.
I don’t know what he feels for Molly other than someone he knows he can rely on, or use, depending on your view. I do find it a bit strange though that Molly had to risk her career for him to take her remotely seriously while all John had to do was be his roommate!