Canon References In BBC Sherlock

[Carol the Dabbler]

Question for those of you who know your Holmes:  Is "Uncle Rudy" borrowed from Conan Doyle?

 

The reason I ask is, in addition to Mycroft's reference to a cross-dressing Uncle Rudy in "Last Vow," sfmpco noticed yesterday that Laurie R. King's Holmes has an Uncle Rudy (in the current short story, "The Marriage of Mary Russell").  It would appear that either A] King borrowed Rudy from Moftiss (in apparent exchange for their borrowing her title "Monstrous Regiment of Women"); or B] they both borrowed him from canon (or at least, from elsewhere).

 

So -- is Uncle Rudy ACD canon?  Or more broadly, was he ever mentioned in a Holmesian context before "Last Vow"?

 

To be precise, the King story mentions a Cousin Rudy, rather than an uncle.  Still, suspicious.  Maybe he's Rudy, Jr.?

[jadpdr]

No way! There's no Uncle or Cousin Rudy in all 56 stories and four novelettes!

[Carol the Dabbler]

No way! There's no Uncle or Cousin Rudy in all 56 stories and four novelettes!

Please note that I was referring to "the King story" -- i.e., the story by Laurie R. King that sfmpco had mentioned.

[jadpdr]

Sorry, anything which was not written by ACD doesn't count as far as I'm concerned! As if we didn't have enough trouble with the highly improbable concoctions of the two alleged fanboys already!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Sorry, anything which was not written by ACD doesn't count as far as I'm concerned!

We each choose our own fields of interest. Some of us enjoy reading and discussing other adaptations of the Holmes universe -- such as King's novels. Admittedly, they're not capital-C Canon, so we're a bit off-topic (even though the discussion did start with a Canon question). If anyone wants to continue this discussion, let's take it to the King thread.

[Inge l-w]

Yes, please, please, please continue with ACD canon references! There is so much chaff out there in Sherlock novels, novelettes, comics even, that it cannot be properly separated from the wheat any more!

[Ellis]

One of my favourites is in ASiB, during the Buckingham Palace, when Sherlock's client's intermediary walks in while Mycroft is saying, "Your client is..." (or something like that) and the intermediary says, "Illustrious. In every way." (again, probably not exactly) I immediately knew that was taken from 'Re Illustrious Client'!!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Clearly "The Six Thatchers" is based on Conan Doyle's story "The Six Napoleons" -- but some of the borrowings from that story may not be all that obvious, and of course some elements have been borrowed from other canon stories.

I've noticed a few items especially:

1. John's suggestion that the perp was suffering from an idee fixe is more or less straight from the original, merely substituting Thatcher for Napoleon.

2. The Black Pearl of the Borgias, which actually was the hidden object in the original, is here used as a red herring.

3. The Toby sequence is yet another borrowing from "The Sign of the Four" (leaving me to wonder if anything is left). In the original, the dog is confused by trails of tar that just happen to cross, and Holmes is able to retrace their steps and find the trail he wants. In the episode, the confusion appears to be a deliberate ploy by the perp.

4. Sherlock's request that Mrs. Hudson save him from his own overconfidence with the code word "Norbury" rings a bell with me. Does anyone recall which canon story may have had a similar moment?

5. There are many cases that we see only brief glimpses of, and at least a few of these are borrowed from Conan Doyle. I'm thinking of the canary trainer and the smelly paint, in particular, but I don't recall what stories they're from. Does anyone know? And have you spotted others?

I am disappointed to find that John's blog is no longer being maintained online. Then again, they'd have been hard pressed to reconcile its generally-light tone with the somber events of this episode.

[Arcadia]

I'm so giddy after seeing ep. 2 that I can barely think, but I've seen "The Yellow Face" mentioned many times, and I'm pretty sure that's where the "Norbury" reference came from. The Canary one ... ak, can't think! I think it was JP who posted it in the T6T thread, something to do with a novel by the 7% Solution author.

 

Can't remember if I've seen a reference to the smelly paint, but I think maybe ... wait .... let me see if I can find it again.

[Arcadia]

Nope, sorry, long gone. Someone made a whole list of references. Actually, there's been more than one list. You can probably google it, and also several things have been posted to the T6T thread.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm not going there yet -- which is why I made a place for us wait-ers to have some fun.

 

I'm relatively certain those were both SH stories. I think the canary one was in the Brett series (I've never seen any of Nick What's-His-Name's Holmes movies, just his Star Trek one(s), and I'm pretty sure I read the paint one. OK, hang on....

 

OK, the paint one is "The Retired Colourman." And we were both wrong about the canaries -- that bit is from (of course!) The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes.

 

Hopefully some of our Conan Doyle buffs will ring in with more.

[Inge l-w]

Oh, Carol! (Actually, that was a song title some decades ago :-; ) the whole Norbury thing and his request to Mrs Hudson ( not Dr Watson, this time, for obvious reasons) to kindly whisper 'Norbury' to him and he will be eternally grateful, come almost verbatim from The Yellow Face, as the Wigmore Str deduction about Mrs Norbury's little flat comes from The Sign of the Four.

I wonder why they persist quoting G.K. Chesterton, though: last week it was hiding a tree in a forest, this week it was hiding a pebble in a beach. Both quotes come from the same Father Brown story, The Sign of the Broken Sword. Anyone who has read this one can get really upset about using Langdale and Porlock as code names, since both are snitches in ACD canon. If you read it, you will see what I mean!

The Canary Trainer is an actual Nick Meyer Holmes story, you know, the director of The Wrath of Khan and The Voyage Home?

The one direct quote in the second one, repeated by Sherlock, once to the Lady in Red once to Dr Watson, I think, is from The Veiled Lodger: "Your life is not your own, keep your hands off it!"

[Carol the Dabbler]

So it was Norbury in the original as well. Interesting. Guess that's why V.N. gave her name as just Vivian -- lest any ACD fans deduce that she was a secret baddie.

 

And TSot4 yet again!

 

I'm pretty sure the bit about a tree in the forest is an old saying (and the pebble on the beach is an obvious parallel), so they may not be quoting Chesterton at all, merely indulging in the same cliches.

 

Seems that everyone is borrowing those canaries!

[Carol the Dabbler]

... Langdale and Porlock [....] both are snitches in ACD canon.

 

I'm assuming the four code names represent Mycroft, Sherlock, Lady S., and Sir What's-his-name. Love turns out to be Lady S., and it's tempting to assume that Antarctica is The Iceman himself. So who gets which of the other two names? And what story/stories are the snitches in?

[J.P.]

I quote the whole text, because it's interesting not only for the one reference I was looking for:

 

At the end of The Six Thatchers, Mycroft is in his kitchen and pulls down a takeaway menu, revealing the word 13th on a piece of paper. If you take a look at the menu, however

The restaurant is called Reigate Square. In canon, there’s a story named The Adventure of the Reigate Squire, so I naturally had to look into it to see if there were any similarities. 

In the story, Holmes has just got over an illness, but travels to the countryside to solve a murder. The victim has a ripped piece of paper in his hand some words written on it that Holmes deduced are written alternately by two different people - a form of skip code!

As part of the investigation, Holmes pretends to have a fit (the lying detective?) and tricks one of the suspects into writing the word ‘twelve’ onto a piece of paper so he can see whether it was him (looking similar to the 13th right now, isn’t it?). In the end, it turns out it was the victim’s employer that killed him. 

I think we need to look into how this could tie in to the rest of the series. The story is renowned for showing how much Holmes trusts Watson and also how attentive Watson is, Sherlock sends for Watson and he arrives within a day, so given the events of TST it’s interesting to imagine how this could play into the rest of the series! Could this be part of the case for The Final Problem?

Well, @studyinpink considering the fact that two people received pieces of paper this episode, Id say you’re on to something! John got one from E and Sherlock was drugged by one given to him by Mary and then John had Molly give Sherlock another piece of paper at the end of the episode. 

Perhaps this story is a nod to the fact that the writing on John’s paper or on John’s note to Sherlock is not entirely on the up and up. If we get to see what John wrote Sherlock, I’d be very interested to see how it compares to John’s text messages. I think there is a definite possibility those texts were coded.

http://impatient14.tumblr.com/post/155312456003/the-adventure-of-the-reigate-squire

 

I will also repost it in the TST thread for discussion

 

 

 

[J.P.]

There was another reference to the "13th" as being (I think) A 13th hour from 1984.

Mycroft as Big Brother... :D

Cannot find the source though. Sorry.

 

There is also an Elephant on one of the flyers. Damn you, Arwel!

[Inge l-w]

Dear Carol, sorry for not replying immediately, got almost snowed in at work, had trouble getting home. Porlock is Sherlock Holmes snitch inside the Moriarty web in The Valley of Fear, where also Moriarty's 'Dear me, Mr Holmes, dear me' is sent as a telegram to Sherlock, not to Mycroft, as was shown in SiB; as for Langdale, it is the first name of Langdale Pike, a social parasite and gossip columnist in The Three Gables. But I quite liked the self-deprecating joke on himself: Moriarty's Iceman self-styles himself Antarctica!

[Carol the Dabbler]

Possibly "PorLOCK" could be SherLOCK. Or would that be too obvious? ;)

[Arcadia]

Every time I see that word I think it says "Potluck."

[Porlock]

*much spoiler alert*

 

On the subject of the canaries - it's a throwaway reference in the opening paragraphs of the story "the adventure of Black Peter" 

 

- "In this memorable year '95 a curious and incongruous succession of cases had engaged his attention, ranging from his famous investigation of the sudden death of Cardinal Tosca—an inquiry which was carried out by him at the express desire of His Holiness the Pope—down to his arrest of Wilson, the notorious canary-trainer, which removed a plague-spot from the East-End of London."

 

It's never referred to again (i don't think) by ACD, but seems to have been picked up by a number of others when writing pastiches and new adventures.

 

Also - J.P., thanks for posting the "Reigate Squires" reference - one of my favourites from the new series.  

 

I'll add one which we've not discussed yet, if I may. In ACD's originals, of course, Watson's first wife Mary dies - though this time during the 'great hiatus' between 'the Final Problem' and 'the Empty House.' In Doyle's stories, she dies of TB, which commonly manifested as a lung problem - while in the series, she dies of quite a different chest complaint! 

 

I also thought that A.J. from the "A.G.R.A" group could be Henry Wood from "the Adventure of the Crooked Man" - another character who was tortured dreadfully after a betrayal, and returned to England after many years. 

 

A.G.R.A, of course, comes from "the sign of the four" - the second Conan Doyle novella, in which Mary Morstan is introduced to John Watson, and they are later to marry. In the story, she is the unwitting heir to one-fourth of the 'Great Agra Treasure.' In the story, Watson feels he can only honourably ask her to marry him once it is confirmed that the treasure is lost. Likewise in the series, it's only after the loss of the A.G.R.A memory stick (one-fourth of the 'great agra treasure') that their relationship can continue.

 

The list goes on, and on, and on. I particularly liked when Craig, Sherlock's hacker friend, refers to Thatcher as being 'like Napoleon' - it's been noted already that 'the six Thatchers,' and the storyline of the busts, and the 'black pearl of the Borgias' all come from 'the Six Napoleons.

 

 I'm a huge fan of Doyle's stories, and have spent a lot of time on different adaptions, too, but I can't help but feel that 'Sherlock' is one of the most lovingly adapted versions of Doyle's originals that I have ever seen.  

 

Wonderful stuff, and glad to have a place to discuss these things now, too. 

 

P.

[Arcadia]

Greetings, Porlock! That's what we like to see, people who jump right into the discussion! Welcome aboard, hope we'll see a lot more of you.

[Carol the Dabbler]

In ACD's originals, of course, Watson's first wife Mary dies - though this time during the 'great hiatus' between 'the Final Problem' and 'the Empty House.' In Doyle's stories, she dies of TB, which commonly manifested as a lung problem - while in the series, she dies of quite a different chest complaint!

 

Is that actually established in canon?  All I recall is that bit about "my sad bereavement" in Empty House.  Is Mary's death also mentioned elsewhere?

 

Thanks for pegging down the canary trainer!

[Carol the Dabbler]

On to "The Lying Detective." Clearly it's based on Conan Doyle's story "The Dying Detective" -- but some of the borrowings from that story may not be all that obvious, and some elements may have been borrowed from other canon stories.
 

We just rewatched the episode, and I recall noticing something straight out of Conan Doyle -- though I wasn't sure which story, and now I don't even recall what it was that I noticed.  I'm sure the rest of you have been more observant, so what have you noticed?

Edited February 26, 2017 by Arcadia
merged from another thread

[Inge l-w]

 

In ACD's originals, of course, Watson's first wife Mary dies - though this time during the 'great hiatus' between 'the Final Problem' and 'the Empty House.' In Doyle's stories, she dies of TB, which commonly manifested as a lung problem - while in the series, she dies of quite a different chest complaint!

 

Is that actually established in canon?  All I recall is that bit about "my sad bereavement" in Empty House.  Is Mary's death also mentioned elsewhere?

 

Thanks for pegging down the canary trainer!

 

Not as such! Mary's death is never directly mentioned, except for the cryptic remark of 'my sad loss' and the retort which appeared in TST that 'work is a good antidote to sorrow', the TB victim was real-life ACD's first wife, the sister of E.W. Hornung's wife, Louisa, and the real-life ACD failed to diagnose her condition early enough, so it became irreversible. The series Arthur and George portrays that situation rather well. Edited February 26, 2017 by Arcadia
Quote added for clarity since this has been merged with another thread.

[Carol the Dabbler]

 

 

In ACD's originals, of course, Watson's first wife Mary dies - though this time during the 'great hiatus' between 'the Final Problem' and 'the Empty House.' In Doyle's stories, she dies of TB, which commonly manifested as a lung problem - while in the series, she dies of quite a different chest complaint!

 

Is that actually established in canon?  All I recall is that bit about "my sad bereavement" in Empty House.  Is Mary's death also mentioned elsewhere?

 

Thanks for pegging down the canary trainer!

 

Not as such! Mary's death is never directly mentioned, except for the cryptic remark of 'my sad loss' and the retort which appeared in TST that 'work is a good antidote to sorrow', the TB victim was real-life ACD's first wife, the sister of E.W. Hornung's wife, Louisa, and the real-life ACD failed to diagnose her condition early enough, so it became irreversible. The series Arthur and George portrays that situation rather well.

 

Oh, OK, that makes sense.  I imagine that a lot of adaptations have "borrowed" Mrs. Doyle's TB.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Arcadia
Quote added for clarity since this has been merged with another thread.