Game of Thrones

[Carol the Dabbler]

48 minutes ago, Artemis said:

I know, so when I finally do get around to watching it, I won’t have anyone to talk to about it because everyone will have moved on, lol.  I always get in on things too late.  

But that's what this forum is for -- you name it, and you'll find someone who'd enjoy discussing it with you.

[Artemis]

Well not always... no one here watched "Turn", so I couldn't geek out with anyone about the plot twists, lol.  But the sentiment is nice. 

 

[Caya]

Note to those not reading or watching GoT - this is purposefully misquoted from a different show (source and many more here).

(Golden Girls)

[Van Buren Supernova]

On 5/23/2019 at 3:22 PM, Artemis said:

On one hand, everyone seems upset about the ending, so maybe I'm glad I didn't get too invested in the characters.

I don't get invested in GoT character, I think. Not the way Sherlock makes me feel. Not the way it personally affect me. But I was invested in the character arc, and GoT 'used' to be the best in those. I'm not sure why Sherlock is different, maybe because I don't think I'm able to relate too much with anyone in GoT? Well, I'm not interested in RL politic and power, hmm hmm, although I probably have Night King's lookalike pissed-off face.

Quote

But on the other hand, it's all anyone's talking about, and I'm feeling left out of the conversation, lol.

Who is 'anyone'? Internet? In my RL, I don't know a lot of people who watch GoT before season 7 actually. And I still know a lot of people who have not and don't give a peep about it, including my SO. I dropped my jaw in Book 1 and ran around the house freaking out in Book 4 (Tywin) and he just looked at me unflinchingly as if that was just one of the things I usually do. Couldn't talk to anyone, didn't know anybody who read the book. Couldn't go to internet.

Anyway, if people are talking about show I haven't and want to watch, I'd just leave the room or lalalala them.

Curious, since you seem to be around people who watched it, have you been spoiled? Wouldn't it affect your enjoyment and judgement since you also know the reactions, or those are okay for you? Gah, you are in this thread! Quick, warg away!

On 5/24/2019 at 8:27 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

But that's what this forum is for -- you name it, and you'll find someone who'd enjoy discussing it with you.

Yup, I think I would still down for discussion, can't help it. Except maybe season 7 and 8. But if you push the right button, I could even give you unsolicited blabbering and go out of control that you'd need to give me virtual smack. 

[J.P.]

I don't think that I will feel so close to the characters as in Sherlock.

As for GoT, what I liked was the all-over complexity of characters, all of them. And the way how it was made, with the cultures, the languages, the costumes and set.

And I remember the agony of being alone with something that blew your mind. It's torture.

[Artemis]

On 5/26/2019 at 11:51 AM, J.P. said:

I don't think that I will feel so close to the characters as in Sherlock.

Yeah, same.  "Sherlock" is a different story altogether.

But I do get invested in other characters/character arcs, too.  I can't recall if I related to any of the characters in Game of Thrones (what I saw of it), but there were characters I liked.  I think Tyrion was my favorite.

On 5/26/2019 at 7:59 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

Who is 'anyone'? Internet?

Yeah, pretty much.  I don't currently interact with many people "in real life".

On 5/26/2019 at 7:59 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

Curious, since you seem to be around people who watched it, have you been spoiled? Wouldn't it affect your enjoyment and judgement since you also know the reactions, or those are okay for you? Gah, you are in this thread! Quick, warg away!

Yes I've seen spoilers, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of a show negatively at all.  Occasionally I'll even seek out spoilers for a show, especially one like Game of Thrones, where character deaths are virtually inevitable.  I don't like to be surprised by that, I'd rather know ahead of time.  And I'm particularly choosy about shows where animals are involved.  On the whole it's difficult to surprise me anyway; I usually figure out how a plotline is going to unfold soon after I start watching it, so it's not even worth the stress of trying to avoid spoilers.

Other people's reactions don't usually affect my opinion of a show much, either.  If I'm interested in watching something, I'm going to watch it regardless what people say, even if everyone says it's horrible.

On 5/26/2019 at 11:51 AM, J.P. said:

As for GoT, what I liked was the all-over complexity of characters, all of them. And the way how it was made, with the cultures, the languages, the costumes and set.

Ditto!

On 5/26/2019 at 11:51 AM, J.P. said:

And I remember the agony of being alone with something that blew your mind. It's torture.

I think I know what you mean.  I watch just about everything alone, so I must be used to it.  Or else it's as I said above, there's not much that surprises me, so my mind isn't often blown.  But in the case of "Turn", there was an episode late in the series where one of my favorite characters returned after a long absence, and I was just so excited about seeing him and what he might do, lol.  He was one of those characters who you initially think is an oblivious milquetoast, but then he gets into a dire situation and it turns out he's a brilliant BAMF; you just didn't know it because he's a softie who's more interested in intellectual pursuits than being a soldier.  (Also he had an awesome foe-to-ally / pawn-to-mastermind / compassionate-but-naive-to-broken-and-bitter-to-wiser-but-compassionate-again character arc that begins and ends with his love for his horse, lol.)  I really wanted to talk to someone about it, but I couldn't find anyone who watched it, so it was a downer having to be excited all by myself, lol.  I even searched the internet for a "Turn" fandom just to see if anyone else was as excited as I was, but no one was discussing it at the time.

"Turn" is another show that I like in part for its complexity of characters.  No one is entirely right or entirely wrong, they all have glaring flaws and complex motivations driving them.  They are frustrating at times and elicit sympathy at other times.  Sometimes you want to punch the protagonists and hug the antagonists, lol.  (Except for Simcoe.  No one wants to hug him, lol.)  Good stuff.

 

[Arcadia]

Turn … is that the one set during the American Revolution? I thought I would like it, but I didn't see it from the beginning and I was still trying to get into it … and then my cable service moved AMC to a more expensive tier, and that was the end of that.

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 8:59 AM, Van Buren Supernova said:

But if you push the right button, I could even give you unsolicited blabbering and go out of control that you'd need to give me virtual smack.

Like you normally do, you mean?  

[Artemis]

Yep, that’s the one.  “Turn: Washington’s Spies” is the whole name.  It takes some dedication to get into it, at least it did for me, lol.  I was iffy about the whole first season, I don’t think it really found its footing until sometime in the second season.  But even so, I don’t think I could have gotten into it at all coming in in the middle.  It builds on itself from early on, so it’s not the kind of show you can just pick up, you really have to see it from the beginning.

(I believe it’s still on Netflix, for those who have that.)

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

14 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Like you normally do, you mean?  

Wha..what? Unsolicited blabbering, and lately lack of ability to retain short-term memory and I think I have started to forget which stories I have told and haven't. Gasp, am I the person I'm always ranting about??!! 😲 Holy smoke, I must be unbearable.

22 hours ago, Artemis said:

Yes I've seen spoilers, but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of a show negatively at all.  Occasionally I'll even seek out spoilers for a show, especially one like Game of Thrones, where character deaths are virtually inevitable.  I don't like to be surprised by that, I'd rather know ahead of time. 

Mmmm mmm *stroking invisible beard*

I see where you are coming from.. (Read: I think you are nuts )

 

[Artemis]

I started watching GoT today.  It’s been a long time since I’ve seen the first two seasons, so I’m rewatching them.  I tend to go through shows fast, so I’m sure I’ll be getting to season 3 before long.  Should be fun...

 

[Arcadia]

Good luck!  

[Artemis]

I just started season 5.  I have to be honest, I almost decided to stop watching after the Red Wedding episode.  That was horrible and depressing, and I'm not sure how much more of Ramsay's continued existence I can endure.  I was perking up through season 4, until I got to the season finale, which was a letdown.  I don't like where most of these characters are starting to go.

I guess one upside was the dispatch of a certain odious father (though I wasn't particularly pleased to watch one of my favorite characters become a murderer, for his own sake).

 

[T.o.b.y]

40 minutes ago, Artemis said:

I just started season 5.  I have to be honest, I almost decided to stop watching after the Red Wedding episode.  That was horrible and depressing, and I'm not sure how much more of Ramsay's continued existence I can endure.  I was perking up through season 4, until I got to the season finale, which was a letdown.  I don't like where most of these characters are starting to go.

I guess one upside was the dispatch of a certain odious father (though I wasn't particularly pleased to watch one of my favorite characters become a murderer, for his own sake).

 

I feel you. The cruelty on GoT got too much for me really fast. And Ramsay... Ugh. Blech. When I learned about the Boltons in general, I thought, this is not for me... 

[Artemis]

Question: At what point in the series do the show’s writers stray from the books and mainly start writing their own story, due to the books being unfinished?  Is it only the final season?

 

[besleybean]

I thought so...

But then I have only read book 1, which I think pretty much matches up with season 1...

Others may know better, I can't really remember!

[Caya]

Season 6-ish ... it's a bit hard to tell from what I gathered from Wikipedia (I stopped watching in S2, but I read all the books, though it's been a while), but there seem to be bits and pieces of stuff happening in the books showing up all over S6 parallel to new plot. Besides, there were differences in plot between series and books before; then again, some stuff that shows up later they got from GRRM and it's probably going to be the same in the books (like Jon's parentage, which was foreshadowed as far back as book 1). So S6 is mixed and from S7 it's mostly new, definitely not in print yet (or, let's be realistic, ever *sigh*).

[Van Buren Supernova]

14 hours ago, Artemis said:

Question: At what point in the series do the show’s writers stray from the books and mainly start writing their own story, due to the books being unfinished?  Is it only the final season?

 

Actually it's a mix, it's a bit hard to pinpoint the actual line.

 

FULL SPOILER AHEAD (I still think you are nuts that you don't mind spoiler Artemis, but if you insist )

These are last the story lines of the book, feel free to correct me, it's been a while ...EIGHT YEARS MARTIN! Geez! Anything happen after these are not in the book yet, but there are some notes (more on that later)

Tyrion Lannister has not met with Daenerys yet, he was captured by Jorah but they are both captured by slaver. With Tyrion's wits, they managed to escape and I believe they are about to join sell-sword company in attempt to go to Daenerys.

Jamie Lannister has settled the capture the Riverrun, taking control from inept Frey like in TV, and taking control of other house without violence (he is proven to be good in war strategy as well), but then he leaves after he is approached by Brianne. It is unclear, but implied that Brianne is under the order of Lady Stoneheart to capture Jamie. My Unsolicited Opinion (MUO): He is in deep shit.

Cersei Lannister finished her walk of shame and is waiting for trial for regicide and incest, she is keeping her head down, as told from POV of Kevan Lannister, her uncle who took over the ruling.

Sansa Stark is still with Littlefinger, I think in the Eyrie or leaving to meet heir of the Vale. In the book, Ramsay Bolton is already married with Sansa's friend (which they claim as Arya).

Arya Stark still in training, Bran still in the cave.

Jon Snow has just been stabbed and dying on the snow.

Daenerys has just rode Drogon from the fighting pit, and lost in unknown area.

Samwell Tarly is in journey to the Citadel.

Varys. He has just assassinated Kevan Lannister and Grand Master Pycelle.

Barristan Selmy is still alive in the book, and orchestrating a coup after Daenerys disappears.

 

That is the latest from the book, anything beyond that from the show creator, however some main some events are certainly based on bulletpoints from Martin, some they executes well; Cersei burning the Sept, Hodor moment, Hardhome, Battle of the bastards but many of others, as you probably know, are blotched badly, in my personal opinion, some of season 5, definitely season 7 & 8.

There are events in the shows that are not based on the book, eventhough it happened earlier than season 6. The two big ones are Jamie and Bronn in Dorne storyline and another one, that actually made book readers jumped, happened in season 4 when they showed Night King taking Craster baby and turned it, including the Night King lair. That scene is not in the book whatsoever.

Hope that answers you question.

 

 

 

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

@Artemis, when you finish season 5, I actually want to ask your opinion about some screen interpretations.

[Artemis]

I'm done with season 5, ask away.    Not sure how informative I'll be though.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

Don't worry, I'm asking for opinion and there is no right or wrong, unless you disagree with me.

It's not a fun topic at all, I don't like it, but I'm just curious as I think I have quite opposite reactions to everyone else. Appreciate everyone's take on this.

 

There are three controversial scenes that involve violence to women, and I'd like to know what you think of them before and after I compare them to what happens in the book.

1. Khal Drogo and Daenerys wedding night.

2. Cersei and Jamie, beside dead Joffrey.

3. Ramsay and Sansa wedding night.

 

And here in the comparison to the book:

Spoiler

 

1 & 2. In the book, these are consensual reunions, eventhough Dany was frightened at first, well who doesn't. But for some reason the show makes it rapey. For 1, I don't know what was the reaction and 'defense' of the showrunner as I didn't follow season 1 live. For 2, they insist it's consensual but it's so not the case in the show (and that is very disturbing). These two pissed me off a lot. In fact, these two scenes are the two that really press my button back then.

3. In the book, Sansa part happens to other character, her friend from north, that we barely know. But it was described horrendously in details about what happens to her. In the show, they didn't actually show anything, but it is implied.

I wasn't so mad about this scene. Well, of course, it's horrific act of violence against woman, but story and adaptation wise, for a show that is known for showing unnecessary exploitation and violence to women (scene in Craster Keep after mutiny comes to mind), I actually think they tackle this one better. We know who Ramsay is and what he is capable of, I don't know if anyone expect something else to happen on their wedding night. They didn't show or glorify anything, it's off screen while 1 & 2 are shown explicitly. 

To my surprise, this is apparently the one that broke the show for many people, and it's still considered one of the worst episode ever. I believe big part of the reason is because it happens to Sansa, an innocent character that they know and it's not her in the book, but streamlining and character combining is nothing new in the series. I wouldn't defend the scene, NO, but how it is worse than 1&2, and why people weren't as mad as me for 1&2? Because I'm still pissed at 1 and 2!

 

 

[Artemis]

I don’t have a lot to say on the subject except that I agree with you.  The Ramsay/Sansa scene was the least explicit depiction of sexual violence I’ve seen on the show thus far.  I was actually quite surprised by how “tame” it was compared to the other scenes.  Even her almost-rape in King’s Landing was more explicit than that.  I was much more bothered by other scenes than the Ramsay/Sansa wedding night, and the fact that she is a main character makes no difference to me.  I felt just as distressed for the many nameless women assaulted by the Dothraki, or the mutineers at Craster's (to name only two of many examples).

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

May I just say, I continue to be really, really glad that I never started watching this show!

[Artemis]

I just learned that HBO is making a GoT prequel series.  Thoughts on that?  Did we want one?    It surprises me a bit since the final season of GoT appears to have been so poorly received.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

On 5/6/2019 at 5:52 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

I'm starting to think that movie makers have forgotten how to do anything except remakes, sequels, reboots, and adaptations.

 

3 hours ago, Artemis said:

I just learned that HBO is making a GoT prequel series.  Thoughts on that?  Did we want one?  

 

Apparently I forgot to say "prequels."

[Van Buren Supernova]

12 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

May I just say, I continue to be really, really glad that I never started watching this show!

There are of course many other more things to appreciate, and I'd also say I like the realism, reading from book is much better of course, as there are always background stories that make them more believable.

For the show, now that the ending is out, don't waste your time. I have shelved my intention of watching many so-called good shows when I found out that the ending sucks. (General opinions, I don't actually want to know the actual endings yet in case one day I have time to waste and make judgement myself) 

7 hours ago, Artemis said:

I just learned that HBO is making a GoT prequel series.  Thoughts on that?  Did we want one?    It surprises me a bit since the final season of GoT seems to have been so poorly received.

The intention was out before the final season. There are a bit of sources, published materials like novella or geez.. the term escapes me, something more like a short summary of the history, but other than that, they have to rewrite, presumably on George's guidance, and if he does that, the next book will come out when some of us has moved to the space.

If it's done by other showrunners, and it will be, I'd give it a try. Imho, the world of Ice and Fire is a very fascinating and rich universe that has a lot of potentials.