Episode 3.2, "The Sign of Three"

[J.P.]

Oh, I forgot - a nice ad-on of the episode: Mycroft in black Lycra. Lycroft? Anyway, it humanizes him very effectively.

[Arcadia]

 

He throws flowers at Janine. Which is probably not even a tradition.

 

Well, to be fair, it was probably the first wedding Sherlock ever attended (properly). And he does seem to have gotten the bride's and the best man's roles a little bit confused... So maybe the bouquet-throwing happened as a result of that. :P

 

Now that I think about it, I wonder who caught Mary's bouquet?

[Shadow Dweller]

 

 

 

 

He throws flowers at Janine. Which is probably not even a tradition.

Well, to be fair, it was probably the first wedding Sherlock ever attended (properly). And he does seem to have gotten the bride's and the best man's roles a little bit confused... So maybe the bouquet-throwing happened as a result of that. :P

 

Now that I think about it, I wonder who caught Mary's bouquet?

Sherlock. I saw he gave it to Molly who looks so dejected. That's nice of him trying to comfort a friend. *is spreading rumour*

[Shadow Dweller]

Oh, I forgot - a nice ad-on of the episode: Mycroft in black Lycra. Lycroft? Anyway, it humanizes him very effectively.

So sorry for double post but the multiquote option did not work on mobile :(

 

Do you mean the exercise room scene? I didn't realize that the black with red ensemble is Lycra.

[Inge l-w]

Of course nothing's sacred when it concerns Mr Moffat! The longer he procrastinates writing S4, the more I'm inclined to side with PlaidAdder! And then we spend endless hours and burn Heaven knows how many grey cells on what is called the loudest subtext on television, when we're handed hints right in the show! O_O

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

 

Bits and Pieces:

 

Spotted sniffing: 1x

Twiddling: none

 

 

BRING BACK THE TWIDDLING!!!!

 

There might be zero twiddling, but did you guys notice two epic twirlings??

I tried to find the gif last week to no avail. XD

One, when he whips the magnifying glass in mayfly apartment.

Two, of course, dance practice.

 

The cavalry has arrived.

 

 

I love how quilty he looks. Maybe more guilty than in TEH. XD

 

Give him a break, he is composing a best man speech, one of the very torturous impossible tasks on earth. :lol:

 

Anyway, it stands out to me how homy he looks in that khaki color dressing gown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

He throws flowers at Janine. Which is probably not even a tradition.

Well, to be fair, it was probably the first wedding Sherlock ever attended (properly). And he does seem to have gotten the bride's and the best man's roles a little bit confused... So maybe the bouquet-throwing happened as a result of that. :P

Now that I think about it, I wonder who caught Mary's bouquet?

Sherlock. I saw he gave it to Molly who looks so dejected. That's nice of him trying to comfort a friend. *is spreading rumour*

I missed that..!

Wait.. oh.. dang..!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Sex might not alarm Sherlock, but the word "sex" apparently does. His face as Janine mentions it. :D

 

To be fair, it would also alarm me when someone I barely know suddenly mentions it out of context.

 

In the barracks' bathroom: Sherlock looks at John clearly impressed by his calmness and professional behavior.

When he was drunk, he admit that John is smart. That should be his honest opinion of John as well.

 

Notice in the barrack bathroom scene, Bainbridge's position is not right. He was leaning on his back to the cubicle when he was found. Yes, his colleague broke the cubicle, but unless he flipped him over purposely, he shouldn't lie on his stomach when he was found.

 

If the colleague had any EFR knowledge and tried to check his pulse, it is also not a recommended recovery position at all.

 

The cylinders Sherlock uses for beer. He should have cleaned them after the latest experiment. Bleh...

Twice.

I was standing in a shop for couple of minutes contemplating to buy that (what they have is made from plastic), just because.

 

The feelings: this pic I found online sums it up the best.

 

 

I wonder about this too but certainly love the randomness and the caption. I bet my kidney it's BC's improvisation.

[Fantasy Lover]

Of course nothing's sacred when it concerns Mr Moffat! The longer he procrastinates writing S4, the more I'm inclined to side with PlaidAdder! And then we spend endless hours and burn Heaven knows how many grey cells on what is called the loudest subtext on television, when we're handed hints right in the show! O_O

Loudest subtext in television ftw!

[Van Buren Supernova]

That smile again!

 

 

 

Mahahahahhaha.....

Awwww.. that adorable sociopath face..

 

Oh, I forgot - a nice ad-on of the episode: Mycroft in black Lycra. Lycroft? Anyway, it humanizes him very effectively.

 

I don't really want to see that again. But, Lycroft!! :lol:

 

You forget drama queen expression

 

[Inge l-w]

Ah, yes, but puzzle solver/drama queen is perfectly within ACD parameters. He often gets into a moody state if Dr Watson is not immediately prepared to drop everything, including wife and his practice to join him in yet another adventure.

[Boswell]

Bits and Pieces:

 

 

The guessing game: "I'm you, aren't I?" Fantastic deduction, Sherlock :D

 

Yes that guessing game I've wondered about too. So Sherlock does think John is clever, in addition to "nice-ish", but also that John "rubs people up the wrong way" - now WHY would he think that, considering John is the one who is forever trying to get Sherlock to behave with some semblance of sociability?

 

And since it's a scene that mentions Madonna, I'm reminded how I really wish they had made Sherlock a little more attuned to the world of music, as he is in the original stories. As things stand, his playing the violin is almost just a prop, used only to make him look sad in ASIB and tragic in TSOT.

[T.o.b.y]

 

Yes that guessing game I've wondered about too. So Sherlock does think John is clever, in addition to "nice-ish", but also that John "rubs people up the wrong way" - now WHY would he think that, considering John is the one who is forever trying to get Sherlock to behave with some semblance of sociability?

 

Well, John is only the socially adept one when compared directly to Sherlock... On his own, he's not exactly the embodiment of a Nice Guy. Remember the morning Kate came to ask him and Mary for help because of her son, for example?

 

[J.P.]

Beside this: it is what Sherlock thinks John thinks about himself. :D

[jadpdr]

Well, we know right from the start that Dr Watson has trust issues, anger management issues and other messy things left over from his deployment, but the way he behaves in this episode is, to say the least, ambiguous: he obviously worships the ground Major Sholto walks on, but he cannot distance himself from Sherlock either, so it seems as if he's being torn apart, by past associations, present conflicting emotions and an uncertain future, no matter how he tries to bolster his resolve by calling the wedding day "the happiest day of my life." It won't remain that way for long, it takes only one month for everything to come crashing around his ears!

[Carol the Dabbler]

The guessing game: "I'm you, aren't I?" Fantastic deduction, Sherlock :D

Yes that guessing game I've wondered about too. So Sherlock does think John is clever, in addition to "nice-ish", but also that John "rubs people up the wrong way" - now WHY would he think that, considering John is the one who is forever trying to get Sherlock to behave with some semblance of sociability?

 

Why does he think that? Well, for one thing, he's sloshed. But also perhaps for the same reason he believes that all of John's friends hate John. He sees John with other people only when he himself is also present -- so perhaps he is not actually oblivious to the way they react, he merely interprets it as their reaction to John.

 

Well, John is only the socially adept one when compared directly to Sherlock... On his own, he's not exactly the embodiment of a Nice Guy. Remember the morning Kate came to ask him and Mary for help because of her son, for example?

 

To be fair, Kate's knock on the door awakened John from a deep sleep -- from a dream, in fact. So he's bound to be a bit groggy and disoriented. Plus, he's a man. No fair comparing his social skills to Mary's!

[J.P.]

This thought popped up in my head while driving, few days ago, but got buried under the trash in my Mind Trash Heap. Now with the stormy wind it showed again:

 

The way Sherlock reacts to Mary.

He indeed responds like a respectful child (which even he notices) - to Mary's, let's say, slightly dominant behavior. Which somehow mirrors his mother's "style". You just look at the smoking scene in HLV. Maybe Mary triggers his reactions just like Mycroft, only in an opposite way?

 

Which would suggest, that Sherlock had a quite strong relationship with his mother.

 

Does it make sense?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Yup.

 

I think someone has already suggested that Sherlock is reacting to Mary as the big sister he never had.  Mother figure would presumably be similar.

[Boton]

I rewatched TSoT last night, which is pretty rare for me, but I've had a pretty rough couple of weeks and need some relaxation and Sherlock. Anyway, unpopular opinion time, but I focused throughout on the interactions between Sherlock and Janine.

 

One of the things I caught this go round was the body language from Sherlock when he sends Mary and John off to dance and looks around the dance floor at everyone else dancing.  He is stiff and uncomfortable, and then his eyes find Janine.  She gives him an open smile, and he returns it - eyes and everything - and starts to move toward her.  Then he sees her with the geeky guy, and he stops, and the next thing we see is him leaving alone.  He doesn't even go over to join the group of Molly and Meat Dagger and Mrs. Hudson dancing together, or go to find Lestrade.  He just leaves.

 

It occurred to me that, regardless of whether you ship Sherlock/Janine, that they built a special kind of friendship during the wedding, and that he felt that this friendship was being taken from him in a way that was similar to John and Mary being taken from him by the wedding and the baby.  For me, it leads to a slightly new interpretation of Janine's role in HLV:  Sherlock really only takes advantage of people he genuinely likes.  I mean, he loves John (however you interpret that), and he drugs him in HoB and admits that John lost an entire Wednesday in TSoT.  He regularly pickpockets Lestrade.  Of course, if he likes Janine, she's the one he's going to fake propose to!

[Arcadia]

Sherlock's version of showing people he likes them is to use them. I love it. :D

[Pamela]

Sort of a variation on "you always hurt the ones you love."

[Boton]

Only Mrs. Hudson has escaped.  As far as we know.

[Boton]

You know, the other thing about that scene is that it gives us a lot of information about how Sherlock was seeing himself throughout the wedding.  Janine's dialog in TSoT was often sexually playful and focused on the idea of the Chief Bridesmaid and Best Man getting together, as is often the joke.  In fact, weddings are often structured so that the honor attendants almost function as a "junior" bride and groom.  So, the best man holds the rings and toasts the couple, the chief bridesmaid gets passed the bride's bouquet during the ceremony and often is the one that will catch the bouquet during the toss, which marks her as the "next bride."

 

Throughout this whole thing, Sherlock was not playing the part of a man who had disdain for romance or sex or relationships, no matter what he said in his speech.  He was actively trying on the role of the groom, right down to helping plan the wedding and making a vow in public.  

 

He wanted to be like John in this moment.  Maybe it was all going to be OK if he and John both were in relationships and both had women who understood The Work.  Then everything would continue on as it had been; it wouldn't be the "end of an era."  

 

But he got two blows within minutes of one another:  first, he realized Mary was pregnant, which put John not one but two life stages "ahead" of Sherlock, and Janine appeared to be hooking up with Geek Boy.  If Sherlock really didn't care about whether he would get to "try on" the idea of being in a relationship and really had the disdain for it he claimed, he would have gone over with Mrs. Hudson or Lestrade and breathed a sigh of relief.  But he did want to try it on, and suddenly he realized "we can't all three dance" and that Janine was (momentarily, at least) unavailable, and he fled.  

 

I'm not sure if that makes me feel better about TSoT or worse, but I do think I like this idea of Sherlock trying on relationships to see if he likes them, and I might see if that interpretation makes me feel differently when I watch HLV.

[bedelia1984]

He wanted to be like John in this moment.  Maybe it was all going to be OK if he and John both were in relationships and both had women who understood The Work.  Then everything would continue on as it had been; it wouldn't be the "end of an era."        

 

I pretty much agree with all your sentiments about the episode, and Janine, and Sherlock, in those moments at least, wanting to be more like John. At times, I wasn't sure if Sherlock was confusing himself with the groom or the bride, especially when you throw in the wedding planning he was doing.

 

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on HLV too, though I think somewhere in between these episodes he changed his view of Janine, focusing more on her usefulness than the fact he was genuinely flattered by her attentions. I also think he (of all people) got slightly caught up in the optimism and romance of the wedding itself, and then landed with a bang to earth by HLV, when he realised how much his friendship with John had altered.

[Boton]

 

He wanted to be like John in this moment.  Maybe it was all going to be OK if he and John both were in relationships and both had women who understood The Work.  Then everything would continue on as it had been; it wouldn't be the "end of an era."        

 

I pretty much agree with all your sentiments about the episode, and Janine, and Sherlock, in those moments at least, wanting to be more like John. At times, I wasn't sure if Sherlock was confusing himself with the groom or the bride, especially when you throw in the wedding planning he was doing.

 

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on HLV too, though I think somewhere in between these episodes he changed his view of Janine, focusing more on her usefulness than the fact he was genuinely flattered by her attentions. I also think he (of all people) got slightly caught up in the optimism and romance of the wedding itself, and then landed with a bang to earth by HLV, when he realised how much his friendship with John had altered.

 

 

Yes, I know what you mean about whether he was confusing himself with the bride or the groom, although I sort of think he wasn't sure if his parallel was John or Mary, not groom or bride, if you know what I mean?  I think part of the reason he forgives Mary relatively readily in HLV is that he sees her as a female version of himself, and maybe he sees some parallels between her relationship with John and his own.  (Not trying to go down a Johnlock road here, just saying there are parallels.)  In HLV, if John would reject the clearly-sociopathic Mary, he might reject the self-styled "high functioning sociopath" Sherlock.  

 

I have some other ideas about HLV since it's my favorite, but I'm going to try to go into the next viewing fresh since I've had a fairly long break since watching it and have this new theory.  I want to see how it holds up.  

[Inge l-w]

Lucky you, dear Boton! This side of the pond it's been an awful fortnight at work, necessitating wading in students' essays ( which have to be corrected and returned in due course), a family visit to watch Hamlet (nice little piece, never liked it overmuch, used to joke about the name being made up of Ham, of which actors do a lot, and Let as a diminutive, like islet. So, I watched Sherlock every free moment I got and fumed at the usual bits and pieces. "In short the two people who love you most in the world" plays right into the hands of any Johnloc conspirator around the world, anyway, combined with this Sherlock's decidedly jealous reaction to Major Sholto's appearance.