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Episode 3.3, "His Last Vow"


Undead Medic

What Did You Think Of "His Last Vow"?  

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    • 7/10 Slightly Above The Norm.
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Oh and I forgot to say...

 

I knew Redbeard was a dog. Well, animal. Probably dog. Child Sherlock was so sweet.

 

Who is/was "the other one"????

 

Not enough Lestrade in this ep AT ALL.

 

Haven't got a clue myself, but some Googling found this:

 

http://www.sherlockian.net/world/mycroft.html

 

 

The rest of the family

 
It is natural to wonder whether there were other brothers in the Holmes family. None are mentioned in any of the original Sherlock Holmes tales. But the 1975 film "The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes' Smarter Brother", starring Gene Wilder, is not about Mycroft; instead, Wilder presents a manic third brother, Sigi Holmes. Presumably the name is short for Sigerson, taken from the alias used by Holmes in "The Empty House".
 
A number of Sherlockians have ventured to speculate about a brother named Sherrinford. That name is taken from Arthur Conan Doyle's original notes for A Study in Scarlet, in which the name Sherrinford is used for the consulting detective who would shortly appear in print under the name of Sherlock.
 
And what about sisters? There is no evidence, apart from a few wistful comments in "The Copper Beeches" to the effect that "no sister of mine" should run the risk that faced Violet Hunter.

 

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Hate to boast, but the ending was EXACTLY what I predicted for end of series three. EXACTLY. The mocking message at the very end - Boast boast boast.

Its actually how i would have written the end.

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By now, I should have learned not to say anything until I haven't seen one of the new episodes at least twice. But first impression: ugh. There were some really nice scenes, some very good lines. But in all, it was too fast and too loud and too spectacular for me. Of course I said that about the The Empty Hearse at first and now I like that episode after all, but still.

 

I strongly object to Moriarty coming back to life. The only person I can ever forgive for dying but not really is Sherlock Holmes. Period. Yes, he was an amazing villain, but if they liked him so much, they should have simply not killed him in the first place. Of course he was also the master villain from the original. There was only one even stronger and that was Magnussen. Which was why I thought they would use him for at least as long as they did Moriarty. And seeing as gunfire never seems to kill anybody on this show, he probably is still alive as well and they will have the two master villains team up so the next episodes can be even more dramatic.

 

I fully expected something like this happening with Mary, but I still don't like it. An assassin. Oh come on. It's just so over the top. Well, now we can really look forward to the crime solving (action) trio, can't we. I bet the baby has superhuman powers.

 

Sorry. Will shut up now. I bet when I've seen the episode another 3 times I will love it and be terribly embarrassed about this post.

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Interesting...

 

I am going to be brutally honest, though... It didn't top TRF, which I thought it might. Not for me, anyway.

 

Same here, mostly because the 'villain' isn't nearly as entertaining. Kinda like Bane vs. Joker, no contest :/

 

Andrew Scott's Moriarty is pure genius as a character, I was very disappointed when he died because I loved watching him, his performance was just so mesmerising. I kept rewinding his scenes like a mad person.

 

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Glad I'm not the only one underwhelmed by Magnussen :unsure:. I've heard so much praise but I just couldn't see it.

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Glad I'm not the only one underwhelmed by Magnussen :unsure:. I've heard so much praise but I just couldn't see it.

 

I'll have to watch again to have a proper opinion. I did like his performance, it had that quietly sinister vibe about it and he definitely was disconcerting (for want of a better word not in my vocabulary). I guess it would be boring if all villains were animated and a bit manic.

I just love Moriarty so much it'd be hard for another performance to compare for me.   

 

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Most of Sherlock's 'pressure points' make sense but Hounds of the Baskerville? Firstly the ep was The Hounds of Baskerville, not THE Baskerville, and why is that case a pressure point?  :huh:

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I think I should wait until I see it a few more times to vote, because I am feeling pretty underwhelmed by some things and this usually improves with a few more views.  

 

But can I just say how much I HATE how easily John forgave Mary? I loved her, absolutely loved her, and now I hope she dies in childbirth in between this season and the next. John's forgiveness of her was so easy and unbelievable. Does he never hold anyone accountable for their actions? 

 

Honestly, that one thing is threatening to ruin for me what is probably, otherwise, a very good episode. 

 

And the whole time I had expected it would be John to shoot Magnussen. He is, after all, a soldier, and he kept asking "To be clear, this information exists only in your mind?" But then, I guess if he had shot him he would have gone away to prison forever, whereas it's not like Britain can condemn Sherlock Holmes forever, not when they need him so desperately. 

 

And not that I don't love to see Andrew Scott again, but really, does anyone on this show ever die? This is what happens when Moffat is running things. They might as well rename this show The Highlander. 

 

Did anyone catch Sherlock's full name? I couldn't make it out over the background noise and BC's rumbly baritone. 

 

Last thing first :) William Sherlock Scott Holmes, as I heard it. Love the name :) It's beautiful.

 

I'm going to rewatch it right away (I missed the first half hour!), before I can make up my mind about many things. However, on first impression I share some of your concerns, Karie. Does John ever hold people accountable? And Sherlock forgave her pretty easily, too. I guess what we're supposed to learn from this is not to hold on to the past? I can agree on that, but in reality forgiveness can actually be a process. (Sarcasm, in case that wasn't clear.)

 

I am, however, (after my first viewing; might revise my statement later) very pleased with Sherlock shooting Magnussen. It appeals to my desire to see Sherlock a hero, I suppose. A hero for his friends, at least. He again proves how much John means to him.

 

The ending? I was shocked so much that I cheered madly, simply because of the surprise - but I'm not actually sure how clever I think it is... Awakened from the dead? We've been there, haven't we...

 

 

Yes, I quite love the name, too! It makes me wonder about Mycroft's full name. 

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Sherlock forgave her so easily mostly for John's sake, but I think he was quite fond of her, himself, and was probably subconsciously looking for an excuse to do so. It's evident in how he dismissed the shooting as "surgical" and "sentimental", saying she deliberately left him alive. Which is total BS, because she actually did succeed in murdering him. He died, and it was only by his own force of will that he fought his way back to life.  If she were being so "surgical" and trying to leave him alive, she might have tried aiming for left side instead of taking the risk of getting too close to his liver. Her calling the ambulance was just her hoping he might be saved, but she had no way of knowing that he would be.  

 

The second time Sherlock collapsed, in front of John, no less... I thought that would be enough to make John hate her forever.  Apparently he is just a glutton for abuse, though, because he will forgive any damage anyone visits down on him. 

 

I have no problem with Sherlock kililng Magnussen. Maybe it's the American in me, LOL, but the b@stard needed a bullet between the eyes and I'm glad someone put him down.  I just think it's supremely stupid that Mary didn't just shoot him to begin with and then run off on Sherlock. I mean, she couldn't kill them both, like Sherlock said, because that would implicate John.  But if she truly believed she would be leaving Sherlock alive anyway, why not just kill Magnussen and then tell Sherlock not to tell John, before running off? She had to know that he would find her and learn the truth before he bothered to turn her in.  Shooting Sherlock instead of Magnussen was absolutely pointless and stupid. 

 

I'm annoyed by the cliffhanger only because it's ridiculous that no one is ever really dead on this show, but then, like I said I have come to expect that from Moffat.  It does tend to undermine the feeling of loss after a while. But, I will shrug it off this time in that, at least Moriarty was interesting, and AS is brilliant. So there's that to look forward to.  

 

In roughly 11 minutes I will be watching again and hopefully a much more clear viewing will result in the capture of more detail. 

 

I'm a little confused on Janine, but that was due to poor audio and visual quality. I got that they never slept together, but did it turn out she was an "opportunistic wh0re" (is that what he called her?) That's disappointing. I really liked her.  I actually thought she was in on it with him until the whole fake proposal thing. At which point I was rolling my eyes, because what has it been, a month? At that point I knew she was either up to something, or really desperate. 

 

I'm also wondering how he managed to keep her out of his pants for a month. She was sleeping in his bed, wearing his shirt and nothing else around the house, and they were intimate enough for her to be in the bathroom while he was in the tub. And her efforts to find a man to take home at the wedding show she's a woman who likes a good time. How, exactly, did he evade her advances? I actually would have loved some flashbacks showing him making up lots of excuses and dancing away from her wandering hands, that would have been quite funny. 

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Not happy about Moriarty coming back, not because of the way TRF ended.  I'm probably alone, but I just don't like the casting.  I never like Moriarty, I know we are not supposed to like the villain, but thats not what I mean.  I didn't like the way he was played.

 

Magnusson - much better casting.  Would have preferred someone else to shoot him though.  The mind palace vault was genius - I should have saw it coming.  I too thought information was being sent to his glasses - but that is because of the way it was shown to use (he takes glasses off, cleans them, puts glasses back on, information changes)

 

Mary - assassin, it fits.  Not actually too fussed that she shot Sherlock, because she did it surgically.  And as for the kiss and make up - actually that makes perfect sense.  Because, despite the deceits - it is clear that the characters do really love each other, and the sign of true love is being able to accept things that others would not (I have personal experience of this, so I know what I am talking about - an no, I'm not sharing)

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By now, I should have learned not to say anything until I haven't seen one of the new episodes at least twice. But first impression: ugh. There were some really nice scenes, some very good lines. But in all, it was too fast and too loud and too spectacular for me. Of course I said that about the The Empty Hearse at first and now I like that episode after all, but still.

 

I strongly object to Moriarty coming back to life. The only person I can ever forgive for dying but not really is Sherlock Holmes. Period. Yes, he was an amazing villain, but if they liked him so much, they should have simply not killed him in the first place. Of course he was also the master villain from the original. There was only one even stronger and that was Magnussen. Which was why I thought they would use him for at least as long as they did Moriarty. And seeing as gunfire never seems to kill anybody on this show, he probably is still alive as well and they will have the two master villains team up so the next episodes can be even more dramatic.

 

I fully expected something like this happening with Mary, but I still don't like it. An assassin. Oh come on. It's just so over the top. Well, now we can really look forward to the crime solving (action) trio, can't we. I bet the baby has superhuman powers.

 

Sorry. Will shut up now. I bet when I've seen the episode another 3 times I will love it and be terribly embarrassed about this post.

 

Yes, way over the top! And it wasn't just her lying to John from the beginning. It was the fact that she had clearly killed a lot of people, and he didn't even want to know about it. Maybe they were all bad guys and double agents, or maybe they were innocent people she had to kill because they "knew too much". John is a man of high moral character, that he would take her back without knowing the truth is appalling and unbelievable to me. It was as if he didn't want to know because he was afraid it would be innocent lives she'd taken, and he knew that would be the end of them. So he'd rather be ignorant and still have her as his wife. WTF is that? She's obviously going to die eventually, why not let her die with him still hating her so that he wouldn't be gutted by it as he now will be? 

 

And, by the way, Sherlock deduced that her accent was fake and she was probably not English. She worked for the CIA, are we to assume she was American? 

 

Most of Sherlock's 'pressure points' make sense but Hounds of the Baskerville? Firstly the ep was The Hounds of Baskerville, not THE Baskerville, and why is that case a pressure point?  :huh:

 

Good eye, I didn't notice that. Will have to check that all out more closely when I can pause the episode. 

 

Interesting...

 

I am going to be brutally honest, though... It didn't top TRF, which I thought it might. Not for me, anyway.

 

If we're being honest, I'll just tell you, it didn't even top Great Game for me.  <_<

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Not happy about Moriarty coming back, not because of the way TRF ended.  I'm probably alone, but I just don't like the casting.  I never like Moriarty, I know we are not supposed to like the villain, but thats not what I mean.  I didn't like the way he was played.

 

Magnusson - much better casting.  Would have preferred someone else to shoot him though.  The mind palace vault was genius - I should have saw it coming.  I too thought information was being sent to his glasses - but that is because of the way it was shown to use (he takes glasses off, cleans them, puts glasses back on, information changes)

 

 

I'm the exact opposite - loved the portrayal of Moriarty, but I feel this season as a whole has been weaker without him, and I'm underwhelmed by Magnussen.

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God, I am in mourning.

Like some of you, I can't believe the Mary conclusion. I liked the episode until John forgave her. So not on... I mean, Sherlock nearly died twice. And John was there, he knows that she even hunted Sherlock down after he left hospital, with a gun in her pocket. Wonder what she planned to do with that, light a cigarette for him?... Yes, she so did not plan to kill him.

No. John was never my true favorite, I liked him, but I was more interested in Sherlock. This episode ruined John for me, however. We see him react to Sherlock's betrayel in The Empty Hearse. That was horrible. He forgave him. Yes. But I do not think trying to kill someone who was not threatening your life (even when he was blackmailing you) is forgivable. Not for him. John did not kill the cabbie because he was evil. He did because the cabbie was about to kill Sherlock. It was a moral decision. Mary's decision was anything but that. Effectively, she also killed Sherlock. I don't know how John can forgive that. I can't. That goes against everything I ever thought about him. I don't think I want him to be Sherlock's friend. He's rotten at it. He allowed Sherlock to ruin his entire life for Mary. Sherlock betrayed his own family, risked to be killed by his own brother, killed somebody, and was almost exiled (where Mycroft told him he'd get killed). And John did not intervene. He did not stand up and tell Sherlock that it was alright. That he did not WANT him to do all that for Mary. Nor did he decide to leave with Sherlock. He shook his hand while standing next to his wife. Just like he stood back after Sherlock killed Magnussen. He did not stand on his side, nor did he try to protect him in any way. He stood back.

 

I don't know if I can ever accept that end. Maybe if he had tried to shield Sherlock. Just one gesture, but to me, this episode is purely about John betraying Sherlock and the effort he makes to protect John's happiness. 

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By now, I should have learned not to say anything until I haven't seen one of the new episodes at least twice. But first impression: ugh. There were some really nice scenes, some very good lines. But in all, it was too fast and too loud and too spectacular for me. Of course I said that about the The Empty Hearse at first and now I like that episode after all, but still.

 

I strongly object to Moriarty coming back to life. The only person I can ever forgive for dying but not really is Sherlock Holmes. Period. Yes, he was an amazing villain, but if they liked him so much, they should have simply not killed him in the first place. Of course he was also the master villain from the original. There was only one even stronger and that was Magnussen. Which was why I thought they would use him for at least as long as they did Moriarty. And seeing as gunfire never seems to kill anybody on this show, he probably is still alive as well and they will have the two master villains team up so the next episodes can be even more dramatic.

 

I fully expected something like this happening with Mary, but I still don't like it. An assassin. Oh come on. It's just so over the top. Well, now we can really look forward to the crime solving (action) trio, can't we. I bet the baby has superhuman powers.

 

Sorry. Will shut up now. I bet when I've seen the episode another 3 times I will love it and be terribly embarrassed about this post.

Yes! I totally agree with you. I also hope it will be better after re-watching but the whole series has been a bit of a let down for me. I remember the feeling when watching the old Sherlocks, goosebumps down my arms after he had solved the case. Series 3 was far too character based for me. 

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[snip]

 

I'm also wondering how he managed to keep her out of his pants for a month. She was sleeping in his bed, wearing his shirt and nothing else around the house, and they were intimate enough for her to be in the bathroom while he was in the tub. And her efforts to find a man to take home at the wedding show she's a woman who likes a good time. How, exactly, did he evade her advances? I actually would have loved some flashbacks showing him making up lots of excuses and dancing away from her wandering hands, that would have been quite funny. 

 

 

Possibly because he was "always at work" - remember Watson hadn't seen him for a month.

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I have to admit, though, I am loving the "Surprise, b*tch, bet you thought you'd seen the last of me" manips of Moriarty on tumblr now. 

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Welcome to the forum, 221! :wave:

 

Definitely not my favourite series either. Then again, it'd be hard to top series 2.

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I was actually okay with Magnussen. He was played just...amazingly. I think it's annoying that he only got one season, one proper episode and that's it. The vault was perfect. I called it as they were walking to the door.

Moriarty returning. I was shocked, I didn't expect it but at the same time, I'm going to have to wait to see how they play it out. I love Andrew Scott's portrayal of him. It's so dangerous and he twists everything around him so well. I can't actually tell if I'm really happy about it or not yet.

I won't go into Mycroft in this post or it'll end up being an essay...

Mary. Now it'll be an essay. I want her gone now. I thought she'd go and then it was all "ASSASSIN." And I thought "She's definitely gone." but then John forgave her and now I just want her out of the series. Absolutely no way you'd ever forgive someone for shooting your best friend, baby or not. Life saving or not. All the lies and deceit. I'm somewhat hoping she'll be a target for Moriarty.

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Did anyone pick up on Mycroft saying something about another brother? Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but I'm going to rewatch that scene to double check. (It's the scene after Sherlock is arrested and Mycroft is talking to a board of people) 

 

I refer the honourable gentleman to my post on the previous page:

 

 

 

Oh and I forgot to say...

 

I knew Redbeard was a dog. Well, animal. Probably dog. Child Sherlock was so sweet.

 

Who is/was "the other one"????

 

Not enough Lestrade in this ep AT ALL.

 

Haven't got a clue myself, but some Googling found this:

 

http://www.sherlockian.net/world/mycroft.html

 

 

The rest of the family

 
It is natural to wonder whether there were other brothers in the Holmes family. None are mentioned in any of the original Sherlock Holmes tales. But the 1975 film "The Adventure of Sherlock Holmes' Smarter Brother", starring Gene Wilder, is not about Mycroft; instead, Wilder presents a manic third brother, Sigi Holmes. Presumably the name is short for Sigerson, taken from the alias used by Holmes in "The Empty House".
 
A number of Sherlockians have ventured to speculate about a brother named Sherrinford. That name is taken from Arthur Conan Doyle's original notes for A Study in Scarlet, in which the name Sherrinford is used for the consulting detective who would shortly appear in print under the name of Sherlock.
 
And what about sisters? There is no evidence, apart from a few wistful comments in "The Copper Beeches" to the effect that "no sister of mine" should run the risk that faced Violet Hunter.

 

 

 

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I was actually okay with Magnussen. He was played just...amazingly. I think it's annoying that he only got one season, one proper episode and that's it. The vault was perfect. I called it as they were walking to the door.

Moriarty returning. I was shocked, I didn't expect it but at the same time, I'm going to have to wait to see how they play it out. I love Andrew Scott's portrayal of him. It's so dangerous and he twists everything around him so well. I can't actually tell if I'm really happy about it or not yet.

I won't go into Mycroft in this post or it'll end up being an essay...

Mary. Now it'll be an essay. I want her gone now. I thought she'd go and then it was all "ASSASSIN." And I thought "She's definitely gone." but then John forgave her and now I just want her out of the series. Absolutely no way you'd ever forgive someone for shooting your best friend, baby or not. Life saving or not. All the lies and deceit. I'm somewhat hoping she'll be a target for Moriarty.

 

Oh I don't know, I think there are many times that John would have liked to have shot Sherlock, but no way he could do it himself.  So maybe he see is at some sort of just desserts.

 

Admittedly, if she had actually killed him I think he would have killed her.

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God, I am in mourning.

Like some of you, I can't believe the Mary conclusion. I liked the episode until John forgave her. So not on... I mean, Sherlock nearly died twice. And John was there, he knows that she even hunted Sherlock down after he left hospital, with a gun in her pocket. Wonder what she planned to do with that, light a cigarette for him?... Yes, she so did not plan to kill him.

No. John was never my true favorite, I liked him, but I was more interested in Sherlock. This episode ruined John for him, however. We see him react to Sherlock's betrayel in The Empty Hearse. That was horrible. He forgave him. Yes. But I do not think trying to kill someone who was not threatening your life (even when he was blackmailing you) is forgivable. Not for him. John did not kill the cabbie because he was evil. He did because the cabbie was about to kill Sherlock. It was a moral decision. Mary's decision was anything but that. Effectively, she also killed Sherlock. I don't know how John can forgive that. I can't. That goes against everything I ever thought about him. I don't think I want him to be Sherlock's friend. He's rotten at it. He allowed Sherlock to ruin his entire life for Mary. Sherlock betrayed his own family, risked to be killed by his own brother, killed somebody, and was almost exiled (where Mycroft told him he'd get killed). And John did not intervene. He did not stand up and tell Sherlock that it was alright. That he did not WANT him to do all that for Mary. Nor did he decide to leave with Sherlock. He shook his hand while standing next to his wife. Just like he stood back after Sherlock killed Magnussen. He did not stand on his side, nor did he try to protect him in any way. He stood back.

 

I don't know if I can ever accept that end. Maybe if he had tried to shield Sherlock. Just one gesture, but to me, this episode is purely about John betraying Sherlock and the effort he makes to protect John's happiness. 

 

Yes, and for what? A woman who had been lying to him since day one? If I were John, I'd have been wondering if she set her sights on me deliberately. You're right, that was so not on. 

 

 

 

[snip]

 

I'm also wondering how he managed to keep her out of his pants for a month. She was sleeping in his bed, wearing his shirt and nothing else around the house, and they were intimate enough for her to be in the bathroom while he was in the tub. And her efforts to find a man to take home at the wedding show she's a woman who likes a good time. How, exactly, did he evade her advances? I actually would have loved some flashbacks showing him making up lots of excuses and dancing away from her wandering hands, that would have been quite funny. 

 

 

Possibly because he was "always at work" - remember Watson hadn't seen him for a month.

 

 

Maybe, but I don't know. I mean, you've been dating someone for a month or less, and you're already sleeping over in their bed and rearranging their kitchen? How does it move that fast, if you haven't even had time to have sex once because he's always working? I guess it could all be blamed on the fact that apparently she was an opportunist who was just using him. As long as he was letting her get close -staying over, moving in, whatever - and she thought she might get some social elevation out of it, she didn't care if they actually got to be physical.  She didn't even appear to notice how lackluster his kisses were, though it could be argued that he was clamming up in front of an audience and was more physical in private. And he did seem comfortable enough with her on his lap. 

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