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kattholmes

What about Sherlock's feelings for Molly?

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:sherlock: what do you think about it? has he feelings of love for her or Irene? 

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   I think "love" is to strong a word for Sherlock.  He did tell Molly that she had always counted and that he had always trusted her and I think for him, being able to trust was a much more valuable commodity in a personal relationship then anything else. I think that is why he felt compelled to apologize to her after he humiliated her at the Christmas party.

 

  As for Irene Adler, he admired her intelligence and in her, he saw something of himself. They were both lonely in their brilliance. She bested him and forced Mycroft to have to apologize to the highest ranking peerage of the realm. He admired her brains more then ever loving her. But could he ever truly trust her? Especially after she betrayed him and threatened to destroy England, Mycroft, and himself.

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I mostly agree with Fox, but then again, Sherlock can be hard to predict!  We'll presumably find out at least a little more regarding Molly in Series 3.

 

And hello, kattholmes -- welcome to Sherlock Forum!  :welcome:

 

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Yes! Hello and welcome kattholmes! A good question that a good many people want to know the answer to. Hopefully Sherlock will have matured enough during his "Great Hiatus" to be truthful in his feelings towards Molly, what ever they may be.

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It's very hard to foresee anything with this show (part of the appeal - so many films and television series are fun to watch but horribly predictable). Especially when it comes to Molly, because there is no precedent for her. Usually, when I interpret what I saw or speculate about how things will develop, I go on what I know from reading Doyle. Irene, for example, was the woman. Which probably means that she was the one female who mattered to Holmes in a romantic way. She only appeared in one memorable story, she married someone else and as far as we know, he never saw her again. So my guess on her modern reincarnation is that yes, he fell in love with her (in his own particular way) and probably remembers her in that light, but I think it highly unlikely that there will ever be a "proper" relationship between them.

 

But Molly - who knows what the writers have in store for her. Maybe they don't even know themselves. Didn't she start out as a very minor character for just one scene and then sort of grow on her own? So far, I think Sherlock was very aware that she had a crush on him, liked that because it was flattering and useful, but didn't feel any attraction to her himself. He certainly liked and trusted her. If she really did play a crucial part in his fake suicide and knew he was alive the whole time, their relationship is bound to change in some way. I don't think they'll become a couple - yet.

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Nicely written, T.o.b.y. And I hope Molly and Sherlock will never become a couple. I just can't imagine Sherlock in a romantic relationship. 

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Oh, neither can I. I'm sure I'd hate it. But I'm not entirely sure whether those who write him will be able (and willing) to keep Sherlock single forever, even though I fervently hope so.

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From the interviews by Gatiss and Moffat I don't see any change in their attitude in keeping as close to the Canon as possible so I'm not looking for any kind of personal love match in Sherlock's future.

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Let's hope you're right... While it would seem kind of mean not to grant Watson a happy love life, I don't think Sherlock Holmes in any reincarnation would need a girlfriend to be completely happy. Besides, the poor woman! Irene might be able to deal with him, but in that case, I'd pity Sherlock.

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Nicely written, T.o.b.y. And I hope Molly and Sherlock will never become a couple. I just can't imagine Sherlock in a romantic relationship. 

 

Yeah, he's not the coupling sort, is he? Despite fan desires that he should be coupled (that's what fanfic is for), I think the stories work best if he is the sun and everyone else are planets circling around him (even if he has forgotten some stuff about solar systems and what all.)

 

In the case of Molly I actually think he's going to tell her that she deserves better than him and that he wants he to have a good full life and she'll take that to heart and move on. Because he is good person in there somewhere.. .

 

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I think the stories work best if he is the sun and everyone else are planets circling around him (even if he has forgotten some stuff about solar systems and what all.)

 

:D  I'm sure that's how he sees his place in life... From what I've heard of The Empty Hearse, he's in for quite a surprise when he returns to find that the universe has gone on without him. If Molly is indeed engaged by now (as the ring might suggest), she maybe didn't wait for him to tell her to get over him. I think I'd like that.

 

Why do people find the idea of Holmes having a regular relationship so appealing? It would be out of character, in my opinion. Of course it's fun to speculate what he would make of romance, but we've already seen that in A Scandal in Belgravia, so it's not really an unanswered question.

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Well, to quote the relevant tvtropes page:

 

"I actually don't think girls like a guy who treats them bad. But I do think they—we—get off a little on the idea of changing someone for the better, or the idea of having the power that someone loves us so much that he'll change or sacrifice something for us. ... A nice guy doesn't need to change, and, most importantly, he's already nice to everyone. How do you know that you're special if he treats everyone else with as much kindness and respect as he treats you? The "bad boy" type, though? He may range from simple, garden-variety jackhole (hello, Sawyer!) to appalling psychopath (hello, Dr. Lecter!), but you know he loves you because he's completely different around you. You are an exception to his very nature. This is how "villain" ends up drifting towards "antihero"—Dracula, The Phantom of the Opera, Spike on Buffy, fanfic!Draco Malfoy—but you even see it with straightforward heroes: Mr. Darcy and Mr. Rochester are both cold, prickly, withdrawn types until Lizzie Bennet and Jane Eyre arrive, respectively, to bewilder and melt them. That's the fantasy."

Cleolinda Jones
 
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Hey guys (sorry I haven't been around for a while... But I'm back !)

 

So... I just think that Sherlock isn't able of love, for any one. Friendship, trust and respect, are probably the most he can do...

Beside, I probably hate to see him in a relationship, with Irene or  Molly. I would think it's funny for a fanfic, or a special episode which wouldn't be part of the rest of the story, but please, nothing more !

More than that, I like the seduccing game between him and Irene, and that's what I like about this relation : it's a game ! When the game end, it stop being interesting. And whit Molly... poor her !

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Well, I think he is capable of love (he certainly loves his closest friends and I think he had some feelings for Irene but I'm not sure whether it was love or just admiration) but isn't capable of having a romantic relationship. With his personality, I wonder what woman would want to be with him.

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Yeah, sorry, I meant "love"  in a  romantic way ^^'

Probably some kind of masochist admirative and very patient woman could be with him... But I don't know if he could be with her ^^

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Well, to quote the relevant tvtropes page:

 

"I actually don't think girls like a guy who treats them bad. But I do think they—we—get off a little on the idea of changing someone for the better, or the idea of having the power that someone loves us so much that he'll change or sacrifice something for us. ... A nice guy doesn't need to change, and, most importantly, he's already nice to everyone. How do you know that you're special if he treats everyone else with as much kindness and respect as he treats you? The "bad boy" type, though? He may range from simple, garden-variety jackhole (hello, Sawyer!) to appalling psychopath (hello, Dr. Lecter!), but you know he loves you because he's completely different around you. You are an exception to his very nature. This is how "villain" ends up drifting towards "antihero"—Dracula, The Phantom of the Opera, Spike on Buffy, fanfic!Draco Malfoy—but you even see it with straightforward heroes: Mr. Darcy and Mr. Rochester are both cold, prickly, withdrawn types until Lizzie Bennet and Jane Eyre arrive, respectively, to bewilder and melt them. That's the fantasy."

Cleolinda Jones

 

 

Very well summed up. That's definitely the kind of love story I like to read and fantasize about (and would go any lengths to avoid in real life).

 

The problem with applying that to Sherlock is that I wouldn't want him to change one bit. I think he's quite perfect already. ;)

 

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Yeah, sorry, I meant "love"  in a  romantic way ^^'

Probably some kind of masochist admirative and very patient woman could be with him... But I don't know if he could be with her ^^

 

But he wouldn't respect someone like that and without the respect it wouldn't be love anyway. And the woman you describe would be the classic Mary Sue, kind virtuous and patient beyond reason. Those kinds of people in real life don't waste their time on men who behave badly. Those kinds of people are busy helping humanity at large.

 

 

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Well, to quote the relevant tvtropes page:

 

"I actually don't think girls like a guy who treats them bad. But I do think they—we—get off a little on the idea of changing someone for the better, or the idea of having the power that someone loves us so much that he'll change or sacrifice something for us. ... A nice guy doesn't need to change, and, most importantly, he's already nice to everyone. How do you know that you're special if he treats everyone else with as much kindness and respect as he treats you? The "bad boy" type, though? He may range from simple, garden-variety jackhole (hello, Sawyer!) to appalling psychopath (hello, Dr. Lecter!), but you know he loves you because he's completely different around you. You are an exception to his very nature. This is how "villain" ends up drifting towards "antihero"—Dracula, The Phantom of the Opera, Spike on Buffy, fanfic!Draco Malfoy—but you even see it with straightforward heroes: Mr. Darcy and Mr. Rochester are both cold, prickly, withdrawn types until Lizzie Bennet and Jane Eyre arrive, respectively, to bewilder and melt them. That's the fantasy."

Cleolinda Jones

 

 

Very well summed up. That's definitely the kind of love story I like to read and fantasize about (and would go any lengths to avoid in real life).

 

The problem with applying that to Sherlock is that I wouldn't want him to change one bit. I think he's quite perfect already. ;)

 

Oh no, please, don't make him change for a (stupide ?) lovestory >.<

 

But he wouldn't respect someone like that and without the respect it wouldn't be love anyway. And the woman you describe would be the classic Mary Sue, kind virtuous and patient beyond reason. Those kinds of people in real life don't waste their time on men who behave badly. Those kinds of people are busy helping humanity at large.

 

That's precisly why I think he can't be in a relationship, in a romantic way. It couldn't last... or even begin. I don't know, this discussion is driving me crazy XD I just can't pictured him in love with anyone, neither can I picture a person who could survive his personnality !

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 this discussion is driving me crazy XD I just can't pictured him in love with anyone, neither can I picture a person who could survive his personnality !

 

Oh... sorry! But - what did you make of A Scandal in Belgravia, then? Don't you think he fell in love with Irene, in his own peculiar way?

 

For your consolation, if the writers stick to the original concept, that should have been it. You can't have the woman if there are more to follow, can you. And even if they let her show up again (I'm still not sure whether I want them to or no), I can't imagine her as part of a regular humdrum happy couple holding hands and going to the movies any more than I can him. They might manage some kind of standing flirtation with or without the occasional close encounter, but I really can't picture them keeping house.

 

Wasn't there an interview quite recently where Moffat or Gatiss said that Sherlock wouldn't know what to do with a girlfriend and that he would probably poison her just to see if it worked?

 

As for surviving his personality, that seems to be possible. John even managed to live with him for... how long was it? And he looks pretty much alive. Although I bet he's happier in a nice house with Mary where his computer is his own and the fridge is for food only (I hope).

 

I'm sure Sherlock Holmes is very capable of loving people (I believe in the great heart behind the great brain), but I think the petty details of a normal relationship, let alone a marriage, would probably be less than interesting to him. As for sex, who knows, but a man who goes without food or sleep occasionally to pursue his work probably ignores other demands of the body as well. (And if not, I have to say I don't really want to know too much about it).

 

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Wasn't there an interview quite recently where Moffat or Gatiss said that Sherlock wouldn't know what to do with a girlfriend and that he would probably poison her just to see if it worked?

 

 

That would be interesting :D 

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 this discussion is driving me crazy XD I just can't pictured him in love with anyone, neither can I picture a person who could survive his personnality !

 

Oh... sorry! But - what did you make of A Scandal in Belgravia, then? Don't you think he fell in love with Irene, in his own peculiar way?

 

For your consolation, if the writers stick to the original concept, that should have been it. You can't have the woman if there are more to follow, can you. And even if they let her show up again (I'm still not sure whether I want them to or no), I can't imagine her as part of a regular humdrum happy couple holding hands and going to the movies than I can him. They might manage some kind of standing flirtation with or without the occasional close encounter, but I really can't picture them keeping the house.

 

 

Maybe it's just me, who really don't want him to be more human than he has to be because of the realistic world, but I felt like it was more of a big flirt than actual love... I said I thought it was a seducing game, and I don't know how to say it otherwhile... But maybe it's just the dark-sleeping-fangirl in me who just don't want this character to be in love with anyone (else) ^^

 

Wasn't there an interview quite recently where Moffat or Gatiss said that Sherlock wouldn't know what to do with a girlfriend and that he would probably poison her just to see if it worked?

 

That would be so funny ! I actually am picturing them both saying that !

 

 

As for surviving his personality, that seems to be possible. John even managed to live with him for... how long was it? And he looks pretty much alive. Although I bet he's happier in a nice house with Mary where his computer is his own and the fridge is for food only (I hope).

 

Yeah, how did I forgot that ? *kill herself*

But still, it's not the same to live with someone as a roomate or as couple...

 

I'm sure Sherlock Holmes is very capable of loving people (I believe in the great heart behind the great brain), but I think the petty details of a normal relationship, let alone a marriage, would probably be less than interesting to him. As for sex, who knows, but a man who goes without food or sleep occasionally to pursue his work probably ignores other demands of the body as well. (And if not, I have to say I don't really want to know too much about it).

 

 

Yeah, I don't know if he is capable of love, but I'm sure that in a relationship, those details would be left out !

(I have to say, I don't want to know much about it... would be odd !)

 

 

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I think perhaps Sherlock will wonder about 'love' as he sees his friend enjoying married life and could 'experiment' with his feelings. :wub::sherlock:

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Do you mean Sherlock might experiment with his own feelings?  Kind of like the Conan Doyle original trying out poisons on himself?  That could be interesting....

 

(I assume you don't mean he might experiment with John's feelings -- seems like he's already done that often enough!)

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