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1 hour ago, Artemis said:

... research has suggested that most people are only productive at work for 1-3 hours in an 8-hour day.  So one must question how much they were really getting done at work to begin with.  It's possible that being less productive working from home is more perception than reality.


That is an excellent point!  I generally felt that I had about 6 good hours per day IF I was allowed to take a meaningful break now and then (e.g., go for a walk or take a cat-nap), which is presumably easier to get away with at home.  One employer insisted that we be at our desks precisely during our nominal work hours, and (for whatever reason) I felt less productive there.  Of course, they turned the ventilation system down in cold weather, which I'm sure accounted for part of it.  It struck us as really weird that they thought they were saving money that way -- while paying their staff to sit there half brain-dead from the reduced level of oxygen.

My husband's former employer has for some time had a policy of letting people work at home when that's practical, but (until recently) that seemed to be honored more in theory than in practice.  Now they're not only allowing it, they're apparently requiring it for a large portion of the staff.  I kinda suspect that after the emergency is over, a lot of people will be pretty adamant about wanting to keep working from home, especially in cases where, like Pamela's sister, they've been given equipment to make that easier.

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Yes, there are a lot of jobs that can't be done from home, the ones that need hands-on or constant supervision, or require us to have specific technology and facilities. I just hope that this quarantine actually proves, like what Carol said, that it's possible for many. Even those that seems unlikely, like construction for example, and I believe some can be said for many areas, a day of WFH actually good since there are almost always administrative work, meetings etc that could be done remotely and have been done remotely.

Say, on this particular day of week people are encourage to stay at home, shops, attractions, entertainments to close, like what we do now without the virus. Let it be a more relaxing day, would it be a positive thing in long term? Retail may lose income for a day, seemingly, but it's actually only shifted to another day once it becomes a habit and people can plan around it. I don't know, I'm amazed seeing how significant impact it brings in various countries; visible blue sky in China and India that we take for granted, clearer water in Venice, improved air quality, lions relaxing on the road etc etc etc.

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12 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Say, on this particular day of week people are encourage to stay at home, shops, attractions, entertainments to close, like what we do now without the virus. Let it be a more relaxing day, would it be a positive thing in long term? Retail may lose income for a day, seemingly, but it's actually only shifted to another day once it becomes a habit and people can plan around it.

That's what Sunday used to be, for a long time.  A 'day of rest' has religious associations as one of God's Ten Commandments and has become more and more lost over time; but it is very healthy for our collective and individual psyche and, personally, is a practice I'd like to see brought back and preserved for all its benefits.

 

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We all need time off.

But it doesn't have to be one particular day.

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Works better for families, though, I'd guess - if one parent has Mondays and Tuesdays off, the other has Wednesdays and Fridays, and their schoolkids Saturday and Sunday, that can't really help with family life, no?

Here in Austria, btw, most shops are still closed on Sundays (exceptions exist for gas stations and such, pharmacies have a system so that there's always one open in your general area, and so on), plus they have restrictions on how long they can open during the week (so no 24/7 supermarkets or similar). I am fond of that system, and polls show most Austrians are, too.

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Yeah, we managed to survive with restrictions of that kind when I was a kid, I imagine we could do it again.

 

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One of my nephews recently started working from home, before the quarantine, and the first few weeks were rough for him. The business was slower than usual and he found himself at loose ends, not having enough work to keep busy. It's taken him a while to find a routine that works for him. But he loves the freedom and flexibility. He is also saving money on gas. His main office is 30-40 miles from his home so he spent significant time in the road. Now he only goes into the office occasionally.

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6 hours ago, Caya said:
Works better for families, though, I'd guess - if one parent has Mondays and Tuesdays off, the other has Wednesdays and Fridays, and their schoolkids Saturday and Sunday, that can't really help with family life, no?

Here in Austria, btw, most shops are still closed on Sundays (exceptions exist for gas stations and such, pharmacies have a system so that there's always one open in your general area, and so on), plus they have restrictions on how long they can open during the week (so no 24/7 supermarkets or similar). I am fond of that system, and polls show most Austrians are, too.

My social worker would disagree with you, but then again she has a toddler and a baby. The baby is crying often and the only thing the toddler is capable of saying these days is "mommy" and "I'm bored", sometimes both of them at the same time. She's struggling to balance work and family, she misses the time you could focus on one or the other, it's hard to balance three plates at the same time. Sometimes I'm glad I don't want to start a family.

 

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So what are we talking about -- longer weekends, work-at-home Wednesdays?  I'm sure most people would like that.  However if everyone has the same schedule, it'd mean more crowded shops on certain days.

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On 4/17/2020 at 1:47 PM, Artemis said:

That's what Sunday used to be, for a long time.  A 'day of rest' has religious associations as one of God's Ten Commandments and has become more and more lost over time; but it is very healthy for our collective and individual psyche and, personally, is a practice I'd like to see brought back and preserved for all its benefits.

 

 

On 4/17/2020 at 2:22 PM, besleybean said:

We all need time off.

But it doesn't have to be one particular day.

 

On 4/17/2020 at 7:54 PM, Caya said:

Works better for families, though, I'd guess - if one parent has Mondays and Tuesdays off, the other has Wednesdays and Fridays, and their schoolkids Saturday and Sunday, that can't really help with family life, no?

Here in Austria, btw, most shops are still closed on Sundays (exceptions exist for gas stations and such, pharmacies have a system so that there's always one open in your general area, and so on), plus they have restrictions on how long they can open during the week (so no 24/7 supermarkets or similar). I am fond of that system, and polls show most Austrians are, too.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 4:09 AM, Carol the Dabbler said:

So what are we talking about -- longer weekends, work-at-home Wednesdays?  I'm sure most people would like that.  However if everyone has the same schedule, it'd mean more crowded shops on certain days.

I am actually thinking of continuing some sort of quarantine habit for environmental purpose as the main objective. It's technically not a time-off (because I could see companies will object to that), but it is some sort of time-off. Pretty sure we have uphill battle to find a way of how we could be kinder to environment, and in unexpected result of outbreak, it does make a difference. One day a week is 52 days a year, it's not bad. It's like car-free-day on steroid, these bleak weeks have proven it actually can be done. Say, Wednesday, we could plan our time and need for 'meet-up' on other days, and plan on works we could do on that Wednesday. As for shopping etc, there are six other days for people to do that, if SAHW (Stay at Home Wednesday) becomes regular, we could plan everything around it. Food stock, what to cook, things to do etc. But it could only work on bigger scale when businesses, companies are committed to it, which, sadly, I don't think they would. 

Another way we could change, is to be less consumptive. Look around the house to see how many junks that we don't really need, compared to our parents or grandparents, there was time when everything is useful and long lasting, passed from generation to generation. At least this teach us that crisis could happen any time, we could live simpler. Oh well, probably unlikely, since the economy will be in the most desperate state to recover, but at the very least there could be smarter system.

Or the world will continue what it does best, if we got through this, we would move on and never look or learn important lesson from it.

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I remember when gas prices first began to soar in this country, you could tell it made a difference; there were fewer and smaller cars on the road. Then the prices went back down, and people reverted to using their vans and wagons and SUVs. Then the price went up again ... and they just kept driving the big cars, and making just as many trips as before.

So, no, I don't expect there will be a big change in human behavior. 

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I suspect we'll see some long-term changes, but maybe not the ones we'd expect.

My best guesses would be more working from home and more phone-ahead-for-pickup purchases, both of which had already gotten a start before the virus hit, and both of which can be more convenient than the usual alternatives.

 

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On 4/20/2020 at 6:11 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

My best guesses would be more working from home

I guess I'm skeptical because it was a huge thing in this area awhile back ... then bit by bit, the employers started cutting back on it, until hardly anyone was working from home. Whether it was because they didn't think their employees were doing as much work, or what, I don't know.

It would be nice if they did permit more of it though; the traffic in this area is really becoming a problem, more working from home might help with that.

One of my students told me she's using curbside pickup; she says she can't wait until she can go back to picking out her own purchases. I suspect younger people will adapt more easily, though.

The big change I noticed this week was ... when I went shopping two weeks ago, there was a line because they were letting only a few people in the store at a time, and nearly everyone was wearing a mask. (And I noticed nobody was looking each other in the eyes, I suspect because they all felt as silly as I did with their masks on. It was kinda funny.)

This week, though, you could walk right in, and hardly anyone was wearing a mask. It wasn't crowded, though, so I'm guessing people are going out less. Or maybe they were at other stores, trying to find toilet paper. :smile: This particular store hasn't had any the last three times I've been there. Or any other paper goods, for that matter. And still no margarine! Everything else seemed to be fully stocked, though.

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Margarine is not one we've had issues with at all here and thankfully we seem to be over the stupid toilet paper grab!

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Toilet paper is kind of hit-and-miss here now (and I haven't seen the type I prefer since Before, though fortunately I still have a supply in the linen closet).  Oddly enough, we just recently started having a bit of trouble finding organic butter, even though there's plenty of regular butter.

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I don't think I realized before now how much butter/margarine is considered a staple! :smile: I suspect people are doing more baking than usual. That's why I ran out in the first place, in fact ... I baked myself a cake. Normally that carton of margarine would've lasted another few weeks. I can go for days with using the stuff, normally.

I am picking up so many bad eating habits during this thing. Arrghhh.

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I am trying to be good...

took me about 12 years to lose over 6 stones...

not going back to that!

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2 hours ago, besleybean said:

I am trying to be good...

took me about 12 years to lose over 6 stones...

not going back to that!

I know what you mean. I was trying to lose a stone when all this happened, now I'm just trying not to put on a stone. Or two. 

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I bought toilet Paper yesterday!
The isle was quite… draughty, but there were some expensive sorts and one cheaper, fortunately the one I use. :D

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Just watching TV with herds of people on the streets and in the parks of Berlin. Police had to close a whole recreational area because of such behaviour.
They are  partially opening schools and… seriously discussing opening the Soccer season. I mean WFAF???

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5 hours ago, J.P. said:

They are [....] seriously discussing opening the Soccer season.


I was just pondering that sort of thing the other day.  Seems like it should be possible to play the games (with various safety measures in place for the players) and show them on television.

Being able to attend the games sounds more iffy at this point -- but I suppose they could allow people to sit in every third or fourth seat, and make it very clear that if they don't abide by the rules, they'll be kicked out.  I dunno.

  

5 hours ago, J.P. said:

... herds of people on the streets and in the parks of Berlin. Police had to close a whole recreational area....

I guess it's a city thing -- people are used to being in crowds.  I think some parks and playgrounds have been closed in this country as well, or at least they're threatening to do so if people don't observe social distancing in them.

Alex and I went for a walk in our favorite nearby small town today, and it was a very pleasant experience.  For starters, the weather was lovely, and everyone seemed in a good mood.  People were waving to complete strangers (namely us), and we even had a couple of brief long-distance conversations.  Social distancing is starting to feel very natural to us.

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Re: soccer. I've seen the pictures from the trainings. No sign of distancing. And how do you want to distance while trying to get a ball from the opposite player? All of them breathing heavily, shouting etc. What I found worse, they want to keep them tested all the time - while the average folk has to have symptoms AND a contact with a sick person to get tested.
IMO The teams would have to be group-quarantined, and there should be 14 Days between the matches to exclude the possibility of getting it from the other team. Not to mention all the people keeping that whole circus running. It's madness.

I'm also convinced by reasoning that people will get together in the areas around the stadiums, even if they are closed, and they would meet with each other to watch the matches on TV.

And above all - it's a wrong statement, showing the players as someone better than the rest and soccer as being more essential than… well, being essential at all.

Meanwhile only 60% of people in my state agree with the obligatory carrying of facemasks. They are opening schools without being able to apply the hygiene and distancing rules. France urges their citizens to spend their vacation travelling only in the country. I mean, WTF, does we have a cease-fire with the virus? Have it left, bored with us? Are we suddenly immune?

We do deserve to go extinct. I even made a T-shirt for it, funnily enough some weeks before the corona bomb  exploded. There were reasons enough, even before COVID.

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21 hours ago, J.P. said:

Re: soccer. I've seen the pictures from the trainings. No sign of distancing. And how do you want to distance while trying to get a ball from the opposite player? All of them breathing heavily, shouting etc. What I found worse, they want to keep them tested all the time - while the average folk has to have symptoms AND a contact with a sick person to get tested.
IMO The teams would have to be group-quarantined, and there should be 14 Days between the matches to exclude the possibility of getting it from the other team. Not to mention all the people keeping that whole circus running. It's madness.

I'm also convinced by reasoning that people will get together in the areas around the stadiums, even if they are closed, and they would meet with each other to watch the matches on TV.

And above all - it's a wrong statement, showing the players as someone better than the rest and soccer as being more essential than… well, being essential at all.

Meanwhile only 60% of people in my state agree with the obligatory carrying of facemasks. They are opening schools without being able to apply the hygiene and distancing rules. France urges their citizens to spend their vacation travelling only in the country. I mean, WTF, does we have a cease-fire with the virus? Have it left, bored with us? Are we suddenly immune?

We do deserve to go extinct. I even made a T-shirt for it, funnily enough some weeks before the corona bomb  exploded. There were reasons enough, even before COVID.

Yeah, the soccer thing makes my blood pressure go through the roof as well. Did you happen to catch that radio interview with this one politician who seriously claimed that it was "too much to ask" of the German people to go without soccer games indefinitely? The same guy didn't want to even discuss re-opening playgrounds, schools or daycares, btw. Or allowing public protests.

Interesting priorities... It sounded like, God forbid people get educated and question my decisions. Much better to just have them sit in front of the television watching sports.

I really shouldn't complain because keeping your job and steady income these days is a real blessing, but I always feel kind of left out by all these "how to keep yourself busy in quarantine" posts, articles and memes online. Boredom isn't exactly my problem right now. <_<

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7 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

... one politician who seriously claimed that it was "too much to ask" of the German people to go without soccer games indefinitely? The same guy didn't want to even discuss re-opening playgrounds, schools or daycares, btw. Or allowing public protests.

Interesting priorities... It sounded like, God forbid people get educated and question my decisions. Much better to just have them sit in front of the television watching sports.


Well, if people watching sports on TV was what he actually had in mind (rather than attending the games in person), then I think he has a point (though "too much to ask" seems overly dramatic!).  It would give people some excitement while they're required to stay home.  On the other hand, it does raise questions -- as J.P. pointed out -- regarding risks of the virus spreading through the league, and the expense of minimizing those risks.  But it might be worth looking into.

Aren't German schools currently being conducted via the internet and/or take-home lesson plans, worksheets, etc.?  That's apparently what's being done most places in the US right now -- not the same thing as in-person school, of course, but some kids might actually do better this way.

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The German 1. League is certainly not having no money. They seem to be the second holy cow in this country just behind car industry, I wouldn't be surprised if someone was pulling some strings lobby-wise.
If we open soccer, others will come and want to be opened. We already have the arguments about one stores being able to open, while others can't, about "why I cannot visit my relatives?", "Why I can walk, but not read a book on a bench", etc, etc…

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