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Sorry if I'm repeating myself, can't remember if I have previously shared this on here or my other forum.

To try and keep it brief: years ago, when I was young...my then best friend really upset me.

I confided in Mum and she gave me this advice:  do you want to keep this person in your life?

In my case, yes I did...

We lost touch for years...but a few years ago we got back together and have never looked back since.

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On 5/2/2020 at 12:53 PM, Sheerluck said:

I would alter my previous statement to forgive her and move the hell on.

 

5 hours ago, besleybean said:

do you want to keep this person in your life?


I agree with both of the above, at least to a certain extent.  It seems to me that you have not one but two decisions to make, FL:

1.  Can you forgive her?  This part is more for your benefit than hers, really.  Even if you choose never to see her again, you could still allow those experiences to eat away at you.  Letting go of those feelings is difficult -- I know that from my own experience -- but it's really important.  Maybe it would help to tell yourself that she was so torn up by her mother's death that she didn't fully understand her own behavior (or its consequences), which is likely to be true.

2.  Then, as Bev says, you need to decide whether you'd prefer to have her back in your life -- or not -- and if so, then to what extent.

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13 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

 


I agree with both of the above, at least to a certain extent.  It seems to me that you have not one but two decisions to make, FL:

1.  Can you forgive her?  This part is more for your benefit than hers, really.  Even if you choose never to see her again, you could still allow those experiences to eat away at you.  Letting go of those feelings is difficult -- I know that from my own experience -- but it's really important.  Maybe it would help to tell yourself that she was so torn up by her mother's death that she didn't fully understand her own behavior (or its consequences), which is likely to be true.

2.  Then, as Bev says, you need to decide whether you'd prefer to have her back in your life -- or not -- and if so, then to what extent.

Yes, please remember - forgiveness is for YOU. And forgiveness does NOT require reconciliation, unless that's what you want.

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BErzOlf.jpg

In my experience, not a bad rule to live by if you can pull it off (I definitely need to work on that forgiving part, and as I get older the not forgetting bit too :lol: ).

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I somehow find it easier to forgive other people (or at least to think of some plausible reason why they might have done what they did, which I think amounts to roughly the same thing) than to let myself off the hook.  Of course I *know* why I did whatever it was, so I can't make up excuses.  But oddest of all, I seem to have the most trouble forgiving myself when I really did have a perfectly innocent reason for my actions, but they turned out badly in ways I had no reason to anticipate.

People sure are funny -- me included.

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59 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I somehow find it easier to forgive other people (or at least to think of some plausible reason why they might have done what they did, which I think amounts to roughly the same thing) than to let myself off the hook.  Of course I *know* why I did whatever it was, so I can't make up excuses.  But oddest of all, I seem to have the most trouble forgiving myself when I really did have a perfectly innocent reason for my actions, but they turned out badly in ways I had no reason to anticipate.

People sure are funny -- me included.

^ Same here.

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but best wishes for you in your predicament, FL.  I've been there, it's rough.

 

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Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. I thought about it and came to the following decision: I'll talk to her, see what she has to say. I'll see if she feels guilty about it, but it will take a long time for me to forgive her.

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Hi all, just dropping in to let you know I'm still around, just been super busy.

FL, sorry to hear what you've been going through, I'm in a similar situation with someone who I once thought of as my best friend. I'd like to keep her in my life, but she's sure making it tough. I hope your situation resolves. It sounds to me like you're on the right track.

Hope everyone is staying safe. I'll try to drop in more often, miss you all!

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Good to hear from you.  Glad to hear you’re keeping busy.

 

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Agh, too busy! Trying to sell my house. Have an offer ... if I take it, I'll be even busier, moving. UGH.

Right now someone else is touring the house, so I'm sitting in my car at the library, borrowing their wifi and admiring their astonishing rose garden. This library is about five minutes from my house, and I had no idea this rose garden even existed until now. Every color rose you can think of, it's stunning. Well, wait ... nope, no black roses. Well, shoot, that ruins it. ;) 

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34 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Trying to sell my house. Have an offer ... if I take it, I'll be even busier, moving. UGH.

Getting ready to move is my idea of purgatory.  I am NEVER moving again!!!

35 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Every color rose you can think of, it's stunning.

Next time you're in London (if it's about the right time of year), check out the rose garden in Regent's Park.  A lot of their roses are old-fashioned types that smell really nice.

Pretty sure there are no black ones, though!

 

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Apparently there's a mob of George Floyd protesters destroying the Target and other businesses about a mile from my dad's house.

Crazy times.

 

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Oh dear. :( Hope he's safe and so are you! :hugz:

eta: Just stumbled over this on imgur: https://imgur.com/gallery/4Qh3rCB . Please let us know if you and your loved ones are okay, that looks frightening. :unsure:

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So far so good, but it’s a bit nerve-wracking.  The rest of the stores in the area and surrounding cities have closed down as a safety precaution.  There has been a fatal shooting and a few stabbings, but I’m most concerned about the fires.  The crowds are growing and moving, but I hope they will leave the residents alone.  There are houses and apartments right near the looted and destroyed stores; I hope they are safe.

I was especially sad to learn that they burned down a new 190-unit low-income housing development that was nearly completed in Minneapolis last night.  We are in desperate need of affordable housing in the metro.

 

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That's the mob mentality, unfortunately.  People are understandably angry and frustrated, but take it out in some terribly inappropriate ways.

I'm glad to see that (so far, at least) more appropriate actions seem to be prevailing at the official level.  Not only the perpetrator but also his three colleagues on the scene have been fired from the police force, and expectation seems to be that they will soon face criminal charges.  Police are attempting to control the mobs in reasonably safe ways.  Also many people, including the victim''s family and friends, are calling for any protests to be peaceful.

I was particularly impressed by a detailed opinion piece by Jack Brewer, a former Minnesota Viking (i.e., member of the local pro football team) which included this:
 

Quote

I must admit, it’s emotionally draining to write this often about unarmed black men losing their life at the hands of evil individuals who are supposed to be defending and protecting their fellow citizens.

It’s even more draining to continue to watch polarization and identity politics being used to divide us following a brother or sister’s tragic loss of life.

This is definitely a war -- I just hope we keep our eye on the actual enemy.  [....[

If we take our eye off fighting the evil of racism to focus on politicizing identity, then we will continue to lose this spiritual war.

.

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On 5/28/2020 at 10:27 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

Police are controlling the mobs in reasonably safe ways.

Not so sure about that.  The Minneapolis police chief earlier announced that they were stepping back for the officers' safety and not confronting the rioters.  They seem to be taking a little more action now that the MPD 3rd Precinct has been invaded and set on fire, but they don't appear to have much control of anything at the moment.

Edit: Well never mind, that "action" was short-lived.  They've retreated from the precinct area and left it to the protesters.  I guess they've just decided not to do anything for now.

 

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27 minutes ago, Artemis said:

The Minneapolis police chief earlier announced that they were taking a step back for the officers' safety and not confronting the rioters.

Oh dear, that's bad news.  I mean, I can see his point, but if the police do nothing to protect the residents and their businesses, then who will?

We were living near LA in 1991, when the police involved in the Rodney King beating were acquitted, and the police chief immediately pulled all his people off the street, with predictable results.  For the next several days, the local TV stations showed nothing but CCTV feeds of the looting, and there was considerable violence as well, despite pleas from Rodney King himself for people to "get along" with each other.  Things finally quieted down, but I had to look online just now to see exactly what happened -- apparently the police went back on the streets, backed up by the National Guard.

I hope the situation in Minneapolis is resolved more quickly and peacefully than that.

 

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There was an 8pm curfew tonight, set to extend through the weekend.  Most stores are closed and boarded up for the next few days.  There was a Walmart open for a few hours, and I guess they've abandoned their limited customers rule, because (I heard) it was shoulder-to-shoulder packed.  *Sigh*.

 

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I wish I could say I'm shocked, but I'm honestly not surprised anymore. I remember the murder of Michael Brown in 2014, it was horrifying to see more people being added on the list: Eric Garner, Tamir Rice and Philando Castile are the most well known for being shot by cops. I hoped those deaths would be the end of racism, I was wrong.

 

I saw the article of BBQ Becky calling the police on a group of black people who were holding a BBQ, I saw several others like her who called the police for the most dumbest reasons. The recent being a woman who was pissed that some dude told her to leash her dog. I saw how Trump held rallies with the words "build that wall!" And "Send them back!" I saw immigrants being put in containment camps. It saddens me that stuff like this still happens, I feel like nothing changed.

 

 

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My personal opinion is that there will never be any such thing as "the end of racism".  Not totally.  It could improve, and we should never stop striving towards that; but it will always exist to some degree, along with sexism, poverty, rape, murder, et. al.

I think a major part of the problem, in cases like these, is special protection/privileges and a double standard for police which allows them to act as though they are immune to the law.  Police should be (and in many cases are) trained to preserve human life above all else, in every interaction; but as long as positions of authority exist, they will attract people who seek to exert power over others.  There should be strong and immediate penalties for those who abuse that.  Too often abuse of power is met with a slap on the wrist, or ignored entirely.  Derek Chauvin had a long history of conduct complaints against him that should have been addressed long ago.  Law enforcement requires reform in many respects which is long past due, and I think it'd be a good idea to start by focusing on that, which is something that can be changed, instead of trying to make racists less racist, which is just going to end with heads banging against walls.

There should be outrage about the death of George Floyd, and protests are most certainly warranted.  However, burning cities down is not the way to go about it.  Not only is it detracting from the real issue, it's hurting those who were already the most vulnerable people in the community.  Many of the neighborhoods being set aflame belong to the lower-income population, and the businesses burning are the businesses that serve them and employ them.  Many of those are small, family-owned businesses that individuals spent a lifetime building.  Some people are losing their only means of transportation when their cars get burned.  People are getting injured and killed.  People are scared.  We were already struggling with severe hardship here from having so many businesses closed due to the pandemic.  Now many of those businesses are razed to the ground, which means even fewer jobs returning when the economy reopens.  And guess who will bear the economic burden of rebuilding?  People who pay taxes, that's who.  We are in serious trouble and this wanton destruction is accomplishing absolutely nothing positive.  No one wants to have a conversation with the person holding a torch to their home or livelihood.

It should be said that I don't know how many of the people participating in this can even be called "protesters" anymore.  I think many are just taking advantage of the situation to vent some rage and steal stuff.  I've also been hearing that many are coming from outside the state, as well as from other "movements", to fan the flames.  Apparently there are drug cartels moving in as well.  I don't know how much of that is confirmed, but in Detroit, Michigan, where they actually bothered to arrest some rioters, about 3/4 of them were outsiders.  To those people in Minnesota, I would really like to say, get the f*ck out of my town.

 

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4 hours ago, Artemis said:

My personal opinion is that there will never be any such thing as "the end of racism".  Not totally.  It could improve, and we should never stop striving towards that; but it will always exist to some degree, along with sexism, poverty, rape, murder, et. al.

I think you're right.  It seems to be basic human nature to prefer the company of others like oneself, because it sometimes has survival value.  Historically, the ability to recognize the minor differences between neighboring tribes could enable a person to be welcomed home vs being killed or enslaved.  But even though such distinctions make little practical difference in most parts of the world today, it's still our nature to at least notice them, and some people can't seem to move beyond a tribal mindset.

Those individuals are unlikely to change their outlook, so the important thing is to ensure that criminal behavior is not tolerated, regardless of whose behavior it is.

6 hours ago, Artemis said:

Law enforcement requires reform in many respects which is long past due, and I think it'd be a good idea to start by focusing on that, which is something that can be changed, instead of trying to make racists less racist, which is just going to end with heads banging against walls.

Exactly!

6 hours ago, Artemis said:

I don't know how many of the people participating in this can even be called "protesters" anymore.  I think many are just taking advantage of the situation to vent some rage and steal stuff.  I've also been hearing that many are coming from outside the state, as well as from other "movements", to fan the flames.  Apparently there are drug cartels moving in as well.  I don't know how much of that is confirmed, but in Detroit, Michigan, where they actually bothered to arrested some rioters, about 3/4 of them were outsiders.

I can tell you that the people shown in the CCTV images from the 1991 LA "riots" didn't look enraged -- they seemed to be having a really good time, pushing carts full of loot out of a Sears store.  And I wouldn't be at all surprised if the current Minneapolis situation were being co-opted by people with any number of other agendas.  In fact, humans being the opportunists that we are, I'd be surprised it that were *not* the case.

 

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You and your folks still okay, @Artemis ? :unsure:

t4K9FGs.jpg

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5 hours ago, Caya said:

You and your folks still okay, @Artemis ?

Well, she checked in six hours ago, so at least she's functional and has internet service.  But yeah, how's it going, Arty?  Is your father at your house or at his?

 

5 hours ago, Caya said:

t4K9FGs.jpg

Ain't it the truth!  The riot touring company has come to Indianapolis (they co-opted a peaceful demonstration over the weekend), so there's been a curfew the past three nights.  Once again, I am really glad to be living out in the boonies.

 

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