What would you like to see in series 4?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Who knows exactly how Moftiss will interpret / reinvent that part of canon -- but I do dearly want to see Sherlock and John mature and age over many years.

 

[T.o.b.y]

I also wonder what they will do with John. Seeing how thoroughly they have explored Sherlock and his inner life and his past this season, I wonder whether we'll get a bit of background on John Watson and more about what makes him the way he is. Might be interesting.

[Zain]

Mh, I wonder if there is so much to explore about John. There's his sister, and there are his unnamed parents. I doubt the war will ever be truly introduced to the series. It's not like he truly suffers from PTSD. So it doesn't make for much character background (not from a writer's perspective).

 

Actually, I don't see any problem with Sherlock heading for a 5th season. I rather fear the 4th one. I think it is very difficult to pick up from season 3. The end is a bit edgy, and unlike TRF, you do not have a clear path to head for. Cliffhangers are easier, you get a starting point. While Moriarty's return (I don't believe it's him, but until we get other hints..) is a leading factor, it's not really suitable for a episode to episode cliffhanger. It's more like foreshadowing. If they manage a good fourth season, there's definitely room for season 5. The main idea behind Sherlock is beautifully chosen, and I see the creative potential behind it.

 

Something that came to me tonight; I'd so love to see Sherlock in rehab. For an undercover mission. Just for the hilarious aspects when he has to go to group therapy. Not something I expect them to do but I want to see that...

[Slithytove]

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I'd love it if they occasionally brought back those unaired pilot jeans!

I have never seen the unaired pilot! Where do I find it?

[T.o.b.y]

   I think it is very difficult to pick up from season 3. The end is a bit edgy, and unlike TRF, you do not have a clear path to head for. Cliffhangers are easier, you get a starting point. While Moriarty's return (I don't believe it's him, but until we get other hints..) is a leading factor, it's not really suitable for a episode to episode cliffhanger. It's more like foreshadowing. If they manage a good fourth season, there's definitely room for season 5.

 

Very true. While after The Reichenbach Fall, it was fairly easy to guess what was going to happen next series - the reunion, the explanation, Moran, the marriage, a shift in Sherlock and Molly's relationship, a new villain (and Magnussen was the obvious choice) etc., it's much more difficult now. For me, especially, because I look at all this mostly from the adapter's point of view and they have now pretty much used up "the canon" as a story beyond the individual cases, they've had the beginning and the end and everything I consider important for the characters that happens in between.

 

Of course, one element is still missing: Watson moving back and the idea that they lived together again for a few years at Baker St for no apparent practical reason (money was not a problem for Holmes in later years). But if they ever let that happen at all on "Sherlock", I doubt they'd do it as soon as series 4. On the other hand, In some ways, the end of series 3 was like turning back the clock and restoring the status quo from before The Reichenbach Fall. Molly's engagement over. Moriarty alive. Sherlock neither dead nor exiled, needed in London to play his part in the great game. John's chair by the fireside again (that sure was not gone for long). So why not move John himself back and forget series 3 ever happened. We shall see what they come up with.

[Karie]

 

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I'd love it if they occasionally brought back those unaired pilot jeans!

I have never seen the unaired pilot! Where do I find it?

 

 

Check your inbox. 

[abductive.reasoning]

I would like to see a bit more detail about Mary's secret past (apart from the fact that she is some sort of intelligence agent or something, we didn't find out) and we will probably finally find out how Moriarty can somehow beat death. After another 2 year wait. Yay.

 

OK, Sherlock beating death is plausible. He's Sherlock Holmes and I would expect nothing less. But Moriarty? 

[abductive.reasoning]

Mh, I wonder if there is so much to explore about John. There's his sister, and there are his unnamed parents. I doubt the war will ever be truly introduced to the series. It's not like he truly suffers from PTSD. So it doesn't make for much character background (not from a writer's perspective).

 

Actually, I don't see any problem with Sherlock heading for a 5th season. I rather fear the 4th one. I think it is very difficult to pick up from season 3. The end is a bit edgy, and unlike TRF, you do not have a clear path to head for. Cliffhangers are easier, you get a starting point. While Moriarty's return (I don't believe it's him, but until we get other hints..) is a leading factor, it's not really suitable for a episode to episode cliffhanger. It's more like foreshadowing. If they manage a good fourth season, there's definitely room for season 5. The main idea behind Sherlock is beautifully chosen, and I see the creative potential behind it.

 

Something that came to me tonight; I'd so love to see Sherlock in rehab. For an undercover mission. Just for the hilarious aspects when he has to go to group therapy. Not something I expect them to do but I want to see that...

 

I agree with you to an extent. But John, of all the characters, is hardly the most riveting. We are only really interested in him as a result of his friends and especially Sherlock. Without Sherlock, would we find John that much of a character?

 

Unless there is some sort of distant connection between John and someone interesting that could shake things up a bit.

 

The fourth season...yes, it will be very difficult to follow on from Season 3. I thought that it would be impossible to follow on from Season 2. I worry. Sherlock in rehab would be something to really hold out for, as well. Fingers crossed.

[T.o.b.y]

But John, of all the characters, is hardly the most riveting. We are only really interested in him as a result of his friends and especially Sherlock. Without Sherlock, would we find John that much of a character?

 

Um... I think there are quite a few John Watson fans around here who might disagree with you on that one...

 

I'm very much focused on Sherlock myself, but I do think John is very interesting in his own right as well. It's cool to finally see a Dr Watson, after having only looked over his shoulder, so to speak, as a reader. Because the narrator of the original stories does not write very much about himself (his "job", after all, is to be Holmes' "Boswell"), there is so much room for interpretation and it is very nicely done. Of course it also helps that I greatly admire the actor who plays him.

 

I read somewhere some time ago that Martin Freeman said in an interview he thought John was actually very much of an "alpha male" and that a lot the dynamic between the characters was built on what happens when he encounters a kind of "super alpha", i.e. Sherlock.

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Something that came to me tonight; I'd so love to see Sherlock in rehab. For an undercover mission. Just for the hilarious aspects when he has to go to group therapy. Not something I expect them to do but I want to see that...

Actually, they've done that already -- with "they" in this case being Elementary. So I very much doubt that we'll ever see that in Sherlock.

 

I have never seen the unaired pilot! Where do I find it?

It's on the Series 1 DVD (or Season 1 if you have the Region 1 DVD).

 

I read somewhere some time ago that Martin Freeman said in an interview he thought John was actually very much of an "alpha male" and that a lot the dynamic between the characters was built on what happens when he encounters a kind of "super alpha", i.e. Sherlock.

Interesting! That's pretty much the impression I've had of John. 

 

[Ally.C]

The unaired pilot is also currently free to download on iTunes. 

[T.o.b.y]

I've been thinking about the baby and why they would choose to bring that into the story. The Watsons had no children (as far as I know) in the original. It is very hard to imagine Sherlock fondling a baby, but there is a scene where Holmes does just that in one story: The Sussex Vampire. I'll put the rest of my thoughts on that in a spoiler box, because some might not have read it yet and might want to.

 

 

If Moffat, Gatiss and Co wanted to do an adaptation of "The Sussex Vampire", they'd certainly have the stage all set. Because it features a man who married a woman after a pretty short acquaintance with her about whose past he knows little and who has  "sides of her character which he could never explore or understand". She is extremely attached to him and would go to any lengths to "protect" him from truths that would "break his heart". Strange things start happening to their child and Sherlock Holmes is asked for a discreet investigation.

 

[aely]

I want more Lestrade, there wasn't enough in S3 for me.

[Zain]

Something that came to me tonight; I'd so love to see Sherlock in rehab. For an undercover mission. Just for the hilarious aspects when he has to go to group therapy. Not something I expect them to do but I want to see that...

Actually, they've done that already -- with "they" in this case being Elementary. So I very much doubt that we'll ever see that in Sherlock.

 

Carol, honestly?

Damn. I didn't know that. I watched two episodes of Elementary, but I couldn't stop myself from comparing it to Sherlock. Maybe I would have liked it better if I had found it before watching Sherlock.

 

 

And the Sussex Vampire, interesting idea.

 

 

I find it hard, however, to see how a direct adaption would work. Doesn't the woman suck the child's blood because the older child poisoned it out of jealousy?

Would that make Sherlock the older child? Since they now have a real baby?

It makes for an interesting theme, though. Maybe Mary does something that endangers the child. It's a bit repetitive to have her be under suspicion and then "cleared" due to the right motives, maybe it's true this time around and she endangers the child because she put John on top of her priorities again? And that could lead to a resolution in this family melodrama? Because she then loses the child as a direct result and John can't cope with that?

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

And the Sussex Vampire, interesting idea. I find it hard, however, to see how a direct adaption would work.

 

So far, they have never done a direct adaptation, they've always gone from a story and twisted it around to both remind us of what it was but then mess with the expectations that remembrance raised - while still conveying extremely well the spirit of the original.

 

I do not expect they'll really do "The Sussex Vampire", but if they wanted to, now would be the time, in my opinion. I'd like it because it's a nice little domestic case and it's more about people and what drives them instead of a lot of bang and action and murder. I've always liked the more "quiet" Holmes cases - and also the ones where it turns out there was no actual crime committed. I wish they'd do one of those. 

[Zain]

Then how do you imagine they could adapt the story? Out of curiosity.

[T.o.b.y]

Then how do you imagine they could adapt the story? Out of curiosity.

 

No idea. It would be really hard, because there is so much potential for soap-opera-style melodrama in it. Let me see, the original plot is

 

 

 

this couple has a baby and the mother is suspected by the servants and later the father of harming it (sucking it's blood, actually, hence the title). It later turns out that the man's older son by a first wife who died had been so jealous of his new brother that he had tried to poison him and all the mother had been doing was suck the poison out (which didn't harm her since it was only effective if given directly into the bloodstream - that part at least made sense, there are drugs like that). She didn't know how to tell her husband, because he was so fond of his boy and it would break his heart, but she was also outraged that he believed she would harm her own child.

 

The Watsons are definitely very like the couple in the story (love each other very much, but he doesn't know a lot about her and there are aspects of her character and her past he can't fathom or does not want to, she thinks she needs to protect him from some unpleasant truths etc. And now there's a baby on the way. And there the parallel ends. I guess one could adapt it very loosely. Maybe bring Mary's past into play. Some relatives or friends of a former victim might get wind of her present identity and threaten to do something to her child, she might not want John to find out because he wasn't too keen to learn much about her former "career" and so might behave strangely and he might start wondering about that.

 

 

 

As I said, no idea. That's why I'd be curious in my turn whether the "Sherlock" writers with their uncanny knack of adaptation could come up with something.

[Zain]

I fear that the end of season three (with John choosing not to deal with Mary's past) leaves barely room for anything but potential family melodrama.

 

I suppose it at least opens up the possibilty to bring the Watson family arc to an end. I know that not everybody was as displeased with it as I was but it gives me some hope. So thanks for bringing it up, Toby The more I read in this thread, the more I am starting to look forward to season 4.

[T.o.b.y]

So thanks for bringing it up, Toby The more I read in this thread, the more I am starting to look forward to season 4.

 

Um... don't get your hopes up, because hardly any of my conjectures regarding series 3 were correct!

 

And an important difference to the original story: The couple in question were of course not Mr and Mrs Dr Watson

 

[mnfe]

I fear that the end of season three (with John choosing not to deal with Mary's past) leaves barely room for anything but potential family melodrama.

 

I suppose it at least opens up the possibilty to bring the Watson family arc to an end. I know that not everybody was as displeased with it as I was but it gives me some hope. So thanks for bringing it up, Toby The more I read in this thread, the more I am starting to look forward to season 4.

 

Just because John chooses not to deal with it doesn't mean he won't be forced to deal with it in some way.  We know that there are still people out there that want Mary dead, so it may still be an issue whether John wants it to be or not.  Of course, then what did Sherlock sacrifice himself for?  It may be that it doesn't get revisited.  But I feel that it did get left open for future plotlines.

[T.o.b.y]

Well, the wish list is growing daily. I wonder how long it will be by the time series 4 actually airs! Right now, I think I'd like them to tackle "The Valley of Fear" (because of Moriarty being mentioned in it but not appearing in person plus a corpse with a wrong identity - that would fit well with the ending of His Last Vow), "The Sussex Vampire" (because of the "interesting" state of the Watsons' marriage at the moment) and "The Gloria Scott" (because they seem to have drawn from that already for Mary and I would still really like to see a "Sherlock" version of Victor Trevor and learn a bit about Sherlock's uni days after we've already been given glimpses at his childhood). Then if they can somehow fit "The Speckled Band" in there some place too, that would be awesome.

[Carol the Dabbler]

You mean you weren't happy with "The Speckled Blonde"? 

 

[T.o.b.y]

No, and I think that case deserves a little more than just a play on words in it's honor.

[Zain]

Glad to see someone else is interested in a Sherlock version of Victor Trevor, too

He's become so popular in fanon, I hope they'll introduce him in season four.  I mean, I sometimes feel ridiculous because one of my top five characters in "Sherlock" isn't even canon (yet?)... I just like the idea. I think it has great potential for a hilarious setting.

[wildwoodflower]

I would really like the show to calm down again. Make an episode without helicopters and CIA killers and a lot of slow motion to the sound of wailing violins. Also no more fake deaths. None! Just keep the really good characters alive, please.

 

I really have no idea how they will fit the Watsons having a child into the big picture. There are never any children mentioned in Doyle's stories. I think I'd quite like it if they just let it be born during series 3 and 4 and then not make a big deal of it's existence. Just let Sherlock and John be the main characters, solving crimes together, and John be married and a father "on the side" (not from his point of view, of course, but from ours). I'd like that, it would be pleasantly mundane and believable (like Sherlock's parents, I really liked those. It was a nice, unexpected touch).

 

As for the cases, I think it's time they did a version of "The Speckled Band" and "The Red-Headed League".

 

You mean there are never any Watson children mentioned, right? Because there are governesses and they do have charges.