Jump to content
Undead Medic

CBS's "Elementary"

Recommended Posts

And Watson, being the more "normal" of the two, is of course the reader / viewer's point of contact with the events.

 

Something else has been bumping around in the back of my head ever since Sherlock first said that Irene is dead. [Where have we heard that before?] Is he sure? This episode presents what could be a really big loophole -- only about 2/3 of M's victims have actually been found -- what if Irene's body is one of the missing ones? She could be in cahoots with Moriarty (Sherlock isn't the first adaptation to use that idea).

 

Or -- Moran and Sherlock could both be wrong about Moriarty making Irene's death look like one of Moran's jobs. Moriarty may have had nothing to do with it. Maybe Irene herself saw the serial killings as an opportunity to disappear.

 

In any case, I'll be very surprised if she never shows up. Alive.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to consider the plot line as well. Where would Sherlock be without his Watson. Couldn't be Sherlock Holmes without him...or in this case.....her. To throw in my own two cents worth, I would say at this point in this relationship, she is worried about him. He was prepared to torture and even kill the man, up to the point of actually stabbing him. So, I like the last part of your post, Carol. To protect Sherlock. Maybe she'll grow into liking the "detective" part later on.

 

I think she wants to protect him from himself and - at the same time is getting hooked on the "Chase!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And Watson, being the more "normal" of the two, is of course the reader / viewer's point of contact with the events.

 

Something else has been bumping around in the back of my head ever since Sherlock first said that Irene is dead. [Where have we heard that before?] Is he sure? This episode presents what could be a really big loophole -- only about 2/3 of M's victims have actually been found -- what if Irene's body is one of the missing ones? She could be in cahoots with Moriarty (Sherlock isn't the first adaptation to use that idea).

 

Or -- Moran and Sherlock could both be wrong about Moriarty making Irene's death look like one of Moran's jobs. Moriarty may have had nothing to do with it. Maybe Irene herself saw the serial killings as an opportunity to disappear.

 

In any case, I'll be very surprised if she never shows up. Alive.

 

 

I'm with you on this one. As in the shower scene in Dallas, in television, they always can write in ways to bring anyone back from the dead. But with a female Watson, it may be a while before the plot or ratings will need a dramatic love interest for Holmes.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... it may be a while before the ... ratings will need a dramatic love interest for Holmes.

Cynic! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm only a Cynic when discussing. When I'm watching, listening, or reading anything Holmes I'm just like a little Kid the first time through. I just enter the story and live! But after - I enjoy picking everything to death. Ha.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, good, I'm not the only one! I know that some people enjoy trying to figure out "whodunnit" while they watch, and sometimes I feel kinda guilty about not wanting to do that, but I'd rather just let the whole experience flow over me. It takes a pretty big jolt (like the PBS cuts in Sherlock episodes) for me to come back to the real world during the show, especially (as you say) the first time. But afterwards is a different matter!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am trying to like "Elementary" but really, after watching the Jeremy Brett and Benedict Cumberbatch interpretations of Sherlock Holmes this character feels so very flat. There is none of that frenetic energy one equates with Sherlock. This version seems pedestrian to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those that have been wanting to watch "Elementary", Episode 1 of Series 1 is on Pick TV at 9pm tonight. I know, I know, that's just about "now", but I've only just noticed...


(It's followed by Game of Thrones, series 1, for those that want to watch it)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is none of that frenetic energy one equates with Sherlock.

I don't have your extensive background in the canon, so I tend to see each adaptation as its own thing, rather than comparing it very much to Conan Doyle's stories. This particular Holmes seems to have a lot going on inside, so perhaps he keeps his frenetic energy bottled up -- or channels it into useful activity, rather than shooting the wall!

 

But that's OK with me, because I tend to like low-key characters -- which is probably one reason why in Sherlock, I prefer Martin Freeman's subtle intensity over Benedict Cumberbatch's more overt variety (though I greatly enjoy the contrast between their two characters).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Elementary is also on CBS tonight (10 pm Eastern). This one's a repeat -- new episode next week, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the contrast between Holmes and Watson is the magic of Sir Arthur's genius. It's that calm, sane voice balancing the wild energy of Holmes' break neck speed deductions and pronouncements and that cry, "But I NEED A CASE!!!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I HAVE had experience with the canon, since my early teens. Blame my dad. He was desperate to get me out of Nancy Drew and drecky westerns and scifi. Yes, the Granada version of Sherlock Holmes (Brett) is the closest to canon so far. But I have always enjoyed the excursions into what fanfic would call AU. I think there is room for experimentation with situation and character. I like to see what other writers can come up with to further the Sherlock legend. I enjoy both the BBC Sherlock and the Elementary version. I also love the Granada version. King's books give me more Sherlock and there is also another author who has written some more along the line of ACD's casebooks. When I can remember the author I will post the name of the author and books.

 

There is so much variety available; like sampling from a nce big brunch buffet. Don't just have the scrambled eggs, try the belgian waffles too!

 

Oh, and I love Clyde! Let's hope he stays out of the soup! :toss:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, the scrambled eggs and the Belgian waffles -- but please, no turtle soup!

 

We were a little late turning on the tv last night, and missed everything before the first commercial. Normally, that part's just a teaser, but I spent the rest of the hour feeling like I'd skipped an entire episode.

 

I take it that Sherlock had been acquainted with the first dead guy, and that's how he knew Clyde's name. But when did Gregson bar Sherlock from the police station? And how did he know about Sherlock's original intention to kill Moran? I thought Moran lied to cover Sherlock's tracks (presumably so that Sherlock would still be at large to track down Moriarty). I'd greatly appreciate some filling-in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those who have seen The Red Team, there was what I assume was an intentional fandom shout-out. I mean, why else would they call a character by that particular name, even if they did use the full first name and not the short form. If you want to know what I'm waffling on about the name's behind this nice spoiler tag...

Harold Dresden

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I noticed that name (though now I'm having trouble remembering which character he was). I don't recall that anyone in that episode had much in common with ol' what's-his-name, so it seems odd that the similar name would be intentional.

 

On the other hand, it's kind of an unusual name to use just by coincidence, so it could still be an in-joke. I remember one episode of Starsky & Hutch where a fight broke out at "Bjo's Lounge" -- which had to be an obscure nod (presumably by the writer) to well-known Star Trek fan Bjo Trimble, even though she didn't seem the type to own a bar!

 

Oh -- and if I may refer to this thread's title -- there's a non-Thursday episode tonight on CBS, whenever they actually get done with the Superbowl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was not impressed with Elementary when it started. The first episodes were interesting only for Jonny Lee Miller (who is awesomely awesome in most everything he does). The mysteries themselves were a little too simple or the solutions broadcast to broadly or something - I mean if I've figured it out before the great Sherlock Holmes than they aren't very good mysteries. But I think they've really stepped up their game and I actually love it. Also, I think it's not accurate to say CBS Elementary stole the idea of modern Sherlock Holmes from the BBC since CBS did a version of this a few years back (not successful) - also I remember when I first read about the Sherlock in development (as a modern take on the character) that there were - at that time - two versions of it in development one American and one British. But here in the US ideas in development don't always get the go ahead, but I remember reading about them very close to the same time (and thinking it was a horrible idea :)). It's more a matter of zietgeist I think. BBC did it first and brilliantly. Elementary is coming into its own though.

 

I am interested to know how people feel about the very straight, very sexual Holmes pn Elementary though. One of the arguments against this version I've heard is that it plays to the American audiences aversion to homosexual subtext. (Which I don't think is true, except for the typical audience for any CBS procedural).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I'd call him "very sexual" -- though I'll admit that he's hardly asexual, which makes for quite a contrast against the Sherlock Sherlock. I'm also not so sure that he's necessarily straight (straight sex may be simply easier to get). He seems to view sex in much the same way that the Sherlock Sherlock views food -- a regrettable necessity.

 

Oddly enough, I'm becoming a bit annoyed with the show, just as you're coming to appreciate it. I still like the characters, though I'm starting to wonder whether Holmes is actually low-key or just slightly boring. But the main thing that's starting to bother me is the blood. All over the place. Just about every week. Pools of the stuff!

 

Those coupled (so to speak) with the gratuitous sex-related scenes, make me wonder -- no, I'm past wondering -- make me reasonably certain that the show is going for the shock factor (not that Sherlock has steered completely clear of it).

 

Oddly again, I thought the first few plots were delightfully intricate, but now they seem to be repeating the occasional plot. Admittedly, that's kind of unavoidable in weekly television, but it took Star Trek two or three seasons to start repeating themselves to the extent that I'm already noticing in just half a season of Elementary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To those of you who know how averse I have been to Elementary, you must know that I finally have mustered the courage to watch an episode. And here are my thoughts. As a show, as an American show, I give it a four on a scale from one to five. As a Sherlock Holmes take, I give it a 1.5. Not fabulous. Relatively good quips ocassionally, but not much else. Also, as we have mentioned, Sherlock's decided virginity seems to be of no consequence to the writers of Elementary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations on finding your courage, Alice!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To those of you who know how averse I have been to Elementary, you must know that I finally have mustered the courage to watch an episode. And here are my thoughts. As a show, as an American show, I give it a four on a scale from one to five. As a Sherlock Holmes take, I give it a 1.5. Not fabulous. Relatively good quips acassionally, but not much else. Also, as we have mentioned, Sherlock's decided virginity seems to be of no consequence to the writers of Elementary.

 

Oh. Who decided he was a vrigin? That is certainly never stated in the ACD canon. He was probably celibate,that seems to be implied, or assumed by Watson, though was also never stated ourright in canon. (Well, it wouldn't have been back then, right?)

 

In the BBC Sherlock, it's used as an insult and it's implied - and SH certainly doesn't protest to the contrary either, but that seemed more out of an idea it would make him appear more foolish than he was already feeling at that moment. Protest too much and all that. But inexperience and reticence re:relationships doesn't mean a person has never had sex.

 

I'm sure this is a well-worn argument though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think I'd call him "very sexual" -- though I'll admit that he's hardly asexual, which makes for quite a contrast against the Sherlock Sherlock. I'm also not so sure that he's necessarily straight (straight sex may be simply easier to get). He seems to view sex in much the same way that the Sherlock Sherlock views food -- a regrettable necessity.

 

As far as my bi-friends tell me, for a man, gay sex is always easier to get (if you're remotely atractive). It is harder to convince a woman to sleep with with you.even when you are attractive. Poor men, they suffer so.

 

Maybe he is fluid in that way, but I doubt we'll see it played out. There's a great fic story involving Alistair (no sex scenes, just history). Can't remember the title though. I will rec it when I do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm waiting to see if we get an explanation for Sherlock's tattoos (which are actually JLMs and not make up). It's been hinted we will, and I do know the true meaning behind the 26.2 on his left shoulder as JLM is an accomplished marathon runner.

 

Posted Image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know that there are conflicting viewpoints. This forum would be boring if there weren't! But I do like Elementary very much. I like what is being done with the Joan character. A woman is keeping up with Sherlock, being an asset on crime scenes. And Holmes' sexuality is, I think, up to what the writers of the show want for their version of Sherlock. This is the CBS treatment of the Sherlock Holmes character, not the BBC version. I must admit that Sherlock's affection for women in Elementary makes him more human. He enjoys women, he enjoys letting his hair down with them and has no hang ups about enjoying sex with them.

 

I have two questions about The Deductionist; what happened to Clyde, and what did Sherlock do to Joan's toothbrush?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... inexperience and reticence re:relationships doesn't mean a person has never had sex.

I think that's the general idea in the Mary Russell stories, for whatever that's worth.

 

 

As far as my bi-friends tell me, for a man, gay sex is always easier to get (if you're remotely atractive).

Hmm, yes, I guess I can see why -- the majority of men are straight, so it's a matter of supply and demand.

 

 

There's a great fic story involving Alistair (no sex scenes, just history). Can't remember the title though. I will rec it when I do.

I like Alistair, and hope they bring him back. Was it stated (or implied) that he's gay -- or did I just get that vibe?

 

 

I like what is being done with the Joan character. A woman is keeping up with Sherlock, being an asset on crime scenes.

I like that too. Of course, I'd dearly love to see John Watson's medical and military expertise recognized as an asset on Sherlock.

 

 

I have two questions about The Deductionist; what happened to Clyde, and what did Sherlock do to Joan's toothbrush?

Two of life's little mysteries, I suspect! ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 33 Guests (See full list)

    There are no registered users currently online

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of UseWe have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.Privacy PolicyGuidelines.