Thoughts on the Different Sherlocks

[Redbeard]

I have really only known four Sherlocks - Jeremy Brett, Jonny Lee Miller, Benedict Cumberbatch and Robert Downey Jr.  I realized as I was watching one day the ways in which I find them very different, through their characters in relation to time.  What I mean is:

 

Jeremy Brett:  A Victorian  Holmes in a Victorian time period.  And perfect at it.

 

Jonny Lee Miller:  A modern day Holmes in modern day.  Counterpoint to the above, and perfectly fine. 

 

Robert Downey Jr.:  A modern day Holmes in Victorian times.  This portrayal always strikes me as more of a current action hero type, transplanted backwards.  He is cool and all, but doesn't seem to really fit into Victorian times.   

 

Benedict Cumberbatch:  A Victorian Holmes in modern day.  Opposite to RDJ.   And this one I find the most interesting.  He is very Victorian in his look, speech, general aura but plunked down into our modern times, and rocking it. 

 

This is why I find our current Sherlock the most interesting.  It has the most conflict, the most pull between character and setting.  It feels like Sherlock Holmes with a twist.  And played by Benedict Cumberbatch.  And written by the most awesome writing team imaginable.  This one clicks, and is exciting and a joy to watch.  

 

And I find Jeremy Brett's Sherlock Holmes the next best, because it is as legit as Holmes gets.  If you want Holmes, this is Holmes! 

 

Next the RDJ version because again I feel at least some conflict between the character and the setting and the way he plays off of it.  

 

The Elementary version, while fun, is not the mix of time and character that I find as interesting.   There is no mix.   It is just here and now and here and now.  No ZING!

 

Just musing.  I hope the words make sense on the page, they make sense in my mind at least. 

 

Curious if others see them about the same way, or something totally different?

[Convict13]

My partner likes the Basil Rathbone versions, and they are fun, but Watson is a little bumbling for me in those versions, we own most of them and I like to re watch them from time to time.

 

We went to see the RDJ Sherlock Holmes movies, and I really liked the first one a lot, the second one was good fun also, and I'm a HUGE Stephen Fry fan so he makes a great Mycroft to me, but I just can't see the family resemblance with RDJ. But this is more like action man Sherlock.

 

I saw the promo for Sherlock and I thought, that looks interesting, and watched from the 1st episode, and was hooked, and so sad there was only 3 episodes, it was so well written, so well acted and such a clever concept to bring the stories into the modern era, and Mark Gatiss is a really good Mycroft, Ben of course is brilliant as Sherlock and Martin Freeman is so good as Watson, the king of reaction.

 

Last year we picked up for next to nothing,  some Ronald Howard and H Marion Crawford versions, the picture quality is not too great, they are also available on YouTube if you are interested in seeing them,  they were made in the USA I believe, it's been a while since I've seen them, but I think they were pretty good, and it was a very jovial Sherlock.

 

I've watched a couple of episodes of Elementary, but it never quite grabbed me, Sherlock should be at 221B Baker Street, London not New York,  although I liked the chemistry between Miller and Liu (who plays a great Joan Watson, I liked that idea).

 

But my more recent venture has been Jeremy Brett's seminal interpretation of Sherlock Holmes,  I just love it, my sister's tell me my mum used to watch, she had a thing for Jeremy (well my mother did have great taste), but it's more than that, I love the friendship in this series, I love Jeremy's little nuances I think they bring so much to the role, if I have one criticism is that I'm not so sure about their choice for Mycroft, but perhaps he will grow on me.

 

 

 

 

[Arcadia]

I'd love to go back and see the old Rathbone versions, I adored them as a kid but it's been a long time now.

 

My dad loved the Brett versions, we'd watch them together and have a great time. But we got a little tired of them after a while. I don't think I saw the last couple of seasons at all. Not their fault, I don't think. Probably found something else on at the same time that I liked more. Also I went thru a period of life with no PBS stations. (This is pre-Netflix days, folks. Yes, I DO go that far back.) But I'd watch them again, if I could find the freakin' time. And had the dough to rent 'em. There's so many.

 

I remember really enjoying the Seven Percent Solution, both the movie and the book, when it first came out. The RDJ versions are a little too frenetic for me, altho I like the actors. And Young Sherlock Holmes was good, as I recall. Surprisingly dark. Saw it a couple times, movies were cheap in those days.  If I'm remembering this correctly, that was one of the first movies that had a little more story after the end credits rolled, as a reward to those of us who hung around for the credits; a habit I developed during the Star Wars years and have never regretted. I think that's the right movie, can anyone confirm?

 

[Janie]

I have really only known four Sherlocks - Jeremy Brett, Jonny Lee Miller, Benedict Cumberbatch and Robert Downey Jr.

 

The same here. But I'm planning to see as many Sherlocks as possible

 

But so far:

 

Robert Downey Jr. - he was actually my first Sherlock Holmes. I didn't know anything about the character except that he was supposed to be a detective and his friend was someone called Watson. So when I first saw the first Sherlock Holmes film I liked it. And I loved Jude Law as Watson (he's one of my favourite actors). But then I got interested in the BBC Sherlock and discovered ACD's books and I found out that Sherlock was not supposed to be an action hero but he used his brain instead. So now I still quite like both films (I adore Stephen Fry as Mycroft in the second one) but I don't think of the main character as of Sherlock Holmes anymore.

 

J.L. Miller - So far I've seen only two episodes of Elementary and I'm not sure I want to see more. I quite like the main character though it took me a while to get used to him. But he's not Sherlock. He's just a genius junkie who likes to solve crimes. Like in any other CSI tv show. He doesn't seem special to me. And by the way, Sherlock Holmes belongs to London. That's my main issue.

 

Benedict Cumberbatch - I love his Sherlock. Well, this is quite obvious because otherwise I wouldn't have been on this forum He is modern and Victorian at the same time. I think he's the perfect modern Sherlock and he didn't lose anything of ACD's Holmes.

 

Jeremy Brett - I recently started watching the Brett's version and I loved it! He's the perfect Victorian Sherlock like I imagined him when I was reading the books.  

[Dragonslayer]

I think a difference can be made between a good portrayal of ACD SH and a good reimagining of ACD SH.

 

Brett will always be The definitive Holmes because he is exactly what ACD wrote.

 

I do love Cumberbatch more but he is not exactly the character that ACD wrote. He is a lot more cold than Holmes is. As I have said, they play the "I have no sentiments" card too often.

 

Also, Mycroft and Moriarty are miles away from canon.

 

So BC is definitely a more entertaining take on SH than Brett, but Brett is canon.

 

 

And I really dislike RDJ Holmes so much! Movie 1 was okay. Movie 2 was James Bond in 19th century.

[Dragonslayer]

My point being, while Brett IS Sherlock, Cumberbatch is a more entertaining detective.

[Redbeard]

Speaking of the different Sherlocks, not sure if this has been posted anywhere here.  My son watches a You Tube channel called Watch Mojo and every day they feature a top 10 list.  They have don a Top 10 Sherlock Holmes Portrayals.  It's interesting.

 

They list them in this order:

 

10.  Nicholas Rowe

9.    Michael Caine

8.    Christopher Plummer

7.    Tom Baker

6.    Robert Downey Jr.

5.    Peter Cushing

4.    Vasily Livanov

3.    Benedict Cumberbatch

2.    Basil Rathbone

1.    Jeremy Brett

 

Do you think given time, Benedict will rise up to # 1 or #2 ?  I do, actually. 

It is interesting to watch the video, but for some reason I can't get a link to work. ( I suck that way though.)

 

 

[Redbeard]

Ha, trying to link it but never mind.  If you are interested, a search will produce it.  

 

Edited June 4, 2014 by Caya
here you go :)

[Redbeard]

Love you Caya!

[T.o.b.y]

Wow, thanks for the video! I'd never seen any other adaptation than Sherlock (and I only approached that under protest originally), so it's really great to get a short overview like this. None of the Victorian portrayals interest me particularly - I have the books, that's all I need in that area, I think. Maybe I should give Brett a try, though. He has something.

 

But the only version where I feel there's actually an improvement on the original is Benedict Cumberbatch's Sherlock...

[Carol the Dabbler]

I think a difference can be made between a good portrayal of ACD SH and a good reimagining of ACD SH.

 

Brett will always be The definitive Holmes because he is exactly what ACD wrote.

 

I do love Cumberbatch more but he is not exactly the character that ACD wrote. He is a lot more cold than Holmes is. As I have said, they play the "I have no sentiments" card too often.

They may be intentionally overplaying that aspect, since they're doing a younger, less confident Holmes, who fears (because he's been beat over the head with it by Mycroft?) that his sentiment is a weakness. And I do think we're starting to see less of that denial already.

 

I agree with your distinction between portrayals and reimagings.  And I agree that anyone would need a DAMN good reason to ever bother doing a Victorian Holmes again.  Maybe when television and movies are all holographic....

 

And I really dislike RDJ Holmes so much! Movie 1 was okay. Movie 2 was James Bond in 19th century.

I actually like the character, but he strikes me as almost a parody of Holmes.

 

[Dragonslayer]

 

And I really dislike RDJ Holmes so much! Movie 1 was okay. Movie 2 was James Bond in 19th century.

I actually like the character, but he strikes me as almost a parody of Holmes.

 

 

 

I think the moment I was completely turned off by the series was this

 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/07/13/article-0-0CFD973800000578-502_634x592.jpg

[Pawse]

First and foremost: Jeremy. Oh, gosh..! His beautiful speaking voice, playful eyes, lovely smile..! Energetic, commanding, complete ability to hold someone's attention, straight to the point: "And you have a way of prevaricating with your answers, Mr Cubitt!" Complete love of my life!

 

Benedict: a lovely modern version. I like the way his thought processes work (especially the onscreen images and writings), the way he can unravel John's history. His wink at John after he tells him his name and address.

 

Jonny Lee Miller: haven't got a clue as I've never seen Elementary. But I'm sure he's nice.

 

Rupert Everett: very nice version, brooding eyes. Somewhat cold. Engaging. Facial expression is a classic upon one particular scene.

 

Robert Downey Jnr: action based, rockets his way across the screen, beautifully dressed, gorgeous hair, hysterical at the right moments, and got the character down much better in Game Of Shadows more than the first one.

 

Basil Rathbone: the original movie version. Brilliant man. It has to be said that there was one scene in Jeremy's version where he had this particular look upon his face as he smoked his pipe and raised his eyebrows and had a slight smile that he practically resembled Basil, and I thought "he's channelling his inner Basil, there..!" Watson (David Burke) was sitting behind him at the window in this scene.

[Redbeard]

 Maybe I should give Brett a try, though. He has something.

 

 

You should!  And he does! 

 

Jeremy Brett is the only other who can make me feel excited about Holmes.  He has the charm, depth, the I-could-be-dangerous-under-the-right-circumstances kind of undercurrent, the humour, the energy, the quirkiness, the frustrating unattainability..the voice...in fact I can easily imagine Jeremy Brett's Holmes being our Benedict's same Holmes only another 20 years on, older and wiser but easily the same person.  It was funny in one episode just the way he says something (I think he was half-asleep and being woken up by either John or Mrs. Hudson.  He covers he eyes and says/moans something like "Go Away!  Leave me alone." and dang if he doesn't sound exactly like Benedict Cumbebatch.  I had to take a double take at the screen). 

 

The humour in this series is much more subtle but it is there.  Also really fun to spot scenes / lines that also played into Sherlock.

 

Well I didn't mean to turn this into a Jeremy Brett gush, but if you have the chance T.o.b.y I really think you will enjoy it.   

[Carol the Dabbler]

... really fun to spot scenes / lines that also played into Sherlock.

I agree (with pretty much everything you said). The Brett episodes differ from canon mainly in showing us things that happened offstage in the stories, but occasionally they do actually change something. For example, they changed the locale of the child-rescue scene in "Priory School" to a dark cavern, with the rescuers carrying blazing torches. I'm virtually certain that's the origin of the child-rescue scene in "Reichenbach" -- in the "cavernous" abandoned factory, with modern "torches."

 

[Convict13]

 Maybe I should give Brett a try, though. He has something.

 

 

 

 

I thought there is no way any other Sherlock could be as good as Benedict's Sherlock, but Jeremy really is just as good.  I love them both, their portrayals are so different but somehow they are the same.  I would really recommend you give Jeremy a good go, watch more than one episode, I actually think A Scandal in Bohemia is not the best of the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, but it is the first one. But Jeremy is a delightful Holmes. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'd advise watching them more or less in order, though.  Otherwise, the discrepancy between Watsons, to say nothing of Brett's progressively poorer health, could be distracting.

 

[Redbeard]

Sort of off topic, but along the same lines of the Top 10 Sherlocks List.  The Telegraph has a list of Top 10 Dr. Watsons:

 

10. Robert Duvall

 9.  Ben Kingsley

 8.  Jude Law

 7.  Dudley Moore

 6.  James Mason

 5.  Edward Hardwicke

 4.  Andrew Sachs

 3.  Martin Freeman

 2.  Vitaly Solomin

 1.  Nigel Bruce

 

Interesting that Martin Freeman and Benedict Cumberbatch both sit in the same position - #3 - on the list.  That only gives them room to rise!

 

I actually preferred David Burke's Watson for Jeremy Brett, but only Edward Hardwicke made the list!

 

 

 

[T.o.b.y]

I cannot believe there is a better Watson possible than Freeman's, I really can't. I loved Sherlock Holmes long before I even knew who Benedict Cumberbatch was, but Freeman's portrayal made me see the potential behind that character for the first time. I enjoy his narrative voice a lot more now when reading.

[Convict13]

I cannot agree with Nigel Bruce as the best Watson, I don't blame the actor but more the scripts that he was given, which is a bumbling Watson,  and where is David Burke?  

 

My best Watson at the moment is Martin Freeman, David Burke and then Edward Hardwicke (but those two may change position as I am only a little into series 3 of The Return of Sherlock Holmes)

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

My favorite Brett-series Watson depends on which episode I'm watching at the time!  I think Burke is perfect for the earlier episodes, because of his more effusive reaction to Holmes's deductions, whereas Hardwicke nicely represents the Doctor's mellower attitude once he's had some time to adjust.  Of course, the difference could be largely in the writing.  But in any case, I love 'em both.

 

That wasn't always the case, though.  I watched pretty much all of the episodes when they were first on PBS, and I don't recall really giving Watson much notice.

 

I loved Sherlock Holmes long before I even knew who Benedict Cumberbatch was, but Freeman's portrayal made me see the potential behind that character for the first time.

 

Amen to that!!!  I have now become something of a Watson connoisseur, and can't fully enjoy any Holmes production that doesn't give the good Doctor a fair shake.  And I suppose Martin Freeman will always be my favorite Watson.

 

[Redbeard]

Yes, it seems being Dr. John Watson can be kind of a thankless character, with all the notice going to Sherlock.  Well, just like in the stories themselves!  And honestly even though I have my issues with Martin Freeman (I just think he plays Watson a bit too prickly at times, but I guess that comes down to the writing as well) I agree by far he is the best Watson.  He is putting Watson "on the map" so to speak (as an interesting character worth exploring in his own right) and I think he will stand the test of time. 

 

I think Jude Law wasn't half bad either really.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Physically, I think Jude Law is a good fit for the Paget illustrations, but (other than the mustache) not for the description of Watson in "Milverton."

 

His character as written and acted is interesting, but he just doesn't seem like Watson to me -- probably because he doesn't remind me of Martin Freeman's Watson, Edward Hardwicke's, or David Burke's, and they got to me first.

 

[Pawse]

What with my recent discovery (or rediscovery) of the Basil Rathbone era, I find myself totally adoring Nigel Bruce. Yes, his portrayal was bumbling (and a bit blustery), but to me, that added to the character, and his facial expressions are classic. He had some good lines, and could be rather comedic at times.

 

House Of Fear:

Watson: Sorry I'm late - I didn't sleep at all well.

Holmes: Didn't sleep at all well? You snored like a pig!

Watson: Rubbish!

 

House Of Fear again: Watson explains about the body before Holmes can get started, and does rather well, much to Holmes' admiration, then he gets asked about a tattoo on the torso of the victim. Watson falls to pieces at this point, much to Holmes' obvious amusement (Come along, Watson - tell him!)