What is wrong with the address placard on the street?

[coastalcruiser]

Hello. I hope this question hasn't already been beaten to death... I am noticing in Season 3 that the camera is quite often showing us the address on the outside door of 221 Baker St. Perhaps this was occuring before, but in any case it's the first time I've noticed.

 

Question is, why is the door on the street labeed 221B? Should it not be 221? Past that door are apartments A and B. Historically was the street door not marked simply 221?

 

What's up with that?

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Because, perhaps, the door that now officially marks the door to the Sherlock Holmes Museum in Baker Street, London is also marked as 221B Baker Street?.

 

 

 

               

 

 

 

 

   The Museum has its own door. The door where the "Bobby" and visitor is standing is addressed as 221B in the fanlight over the door itself.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Even in the Granada Sherlock Holmes series the street entrance door is marked 221B.

 

     

[Caya]

Hello and welcome to the forum, coastalcruiser!

 

I think Moftiss once said (somewhere in the casebook iirc) that yeah, logically it should be 221, but they went with tradition because they just couldn't put anything there but 221B.

[coastalcruiser]

Hello and welcome to the forum, coastalcruiser!

 

I think Moftiss once said (somewhere in the casebook iirc) that yeah, logically it should be 221, but they went with tradition because they just couldn't put anything there but 221B.

 

Thank you everyone for the replies. And for taking the time to post the pics.

 

Thank you for the welcome Caya. Just now joining in the fun. I am a late bloomer. I just recently joined a Matrix forum to try and answer the question of what Trinity meant when she told Neo that everything the Oracle had told had come true except this. What was this? Trouble is, no one's been in the forum since 2003! LOL.

 

Yeah, it suddenly stood out to me that it "should" be just 221, but at the same time, if you were in charge of what goes there, it would be hard not to put 221B. It "sounds right", because we said it that way in our heads reading the Conan Doyle books; 221 B Baker Street.

 

In fact, I suspect it would raise more eyebrows to not have added the B on the street entrance. It simply would have caught more peoples attention; "Hey you left off the 'B'!".

 

Cheers

[coastalcruiser]

PS - Really enjoying season 3 on this first run through. I think I didn't like season 2 as much as Season 1, so expectations were tempered a bit. Hard to re-create brilliance. But season 3 is quite impressive. There are moments of truly brilliant story telling. And I'm laughing a lot.

[Bakerstreet Irregular]

Season Three did have some high spots....low spots but brilliantly done.......by the way....welcome to the Forum coastcruiser!   Glad you found us and decided to jump right in.

[Caya]

Oh dear, Matrix, that's been ages (plus I must admit I share xkcd's take ). But I hope someone else here can help you out. Come on, local film buffs!

[coastalcruiser]

Oh dear, Matrix, that's been ages (plus I must admit I share xkcd's take ). But I hope someone else here can help you out. Come on, local film buffs!

 

Checked the link. Oh. My. God. That is funny! And soooo true!

 

Regarding what Trinity said... No. Yes, I actually think I figured it out. Even though the threads were long abandoned they were repleat with guesses as to what Trinity meant. The thing is, no one ever nailed it! But in perusing the threads it finally came to me. I think  I know what she meant. It's a best guess anyhow.

[Caya]

Well, what would your guess be then? Her and Neo?

[coastalcruiser]

Well, what would your guess be then? Her and Neo?

The Matrix

An attempt to answer the seemingly unanswerable question

What did Trinity mean when she said: “…everything but this.”

 

In the first Matrix film, after Neo saved Trinity from the helicopter crash, the pair were in the subway station waiting for the phone to ring in order for Trinity could jack-out. Just before Agent Smith appears Trinity says to Neo: "Neo, I want to tell you something, but I'm afraid of what it will mean if I do. Everything the Oracle told me has come true...everything but this." She hesitates, and then Smith shows up to kill them and interrupts her.

 

What did Trinity mean? What had the Oracle told her? Why was she scared to tell Neo? The film never made this clear.

 

[sidenote: Also recall that Trinity had started to relate to Neo what the Oracle had told her when they were in the car on the way to visit the Oracle. She again hesitates, and is interrupted when the car stops at its destination.]

 

A common explanation is that Trinity was afraid to tell Neo she was in love with him. This does not wash however. In her phrasing, Trinity distinguished what had already come true (“has come true”) from what had not yet to come true. Clearly at this point in the film she was in love with Neo. He had just bravely risked his own life to save hers. You can see by the way she looks at him that she’s drank the Neo Kool-Aid. So there is something else, something that has not yet happened, that makes her allude to “everything but this”, with “this” being a reference to something she was about to tell Neo that had not yet come to pass.

 

A twist on the above premise is that Trinity was scared to admit she was in love with Neo because she had been told he was not The One. But this explanation comes from people who are not recalling the timeline properly. The reveal regarding Neo having been told by the Oracle he was not The One came much later when he and Trinity were about to re-enter the Matrix to save Morpheus (also recall that Trinity was unaware the Oracle had told Neo that either he or Morpheus was going to die. This will be important later in this discussion). Furthermore we know at this point in the film that Neo is The One. We have Morpheus just a few minutes before the subway scene announcing “He is The One” (from a rooftop no less) right after Neo saves Trinity from the crash. So neither explanation fits.

 

Now we get to the explanation that makes the most sense. Only thing is, this line of reasoning has a giant rip in it. This is what bakes everyone's noodle. First the explanation:

 

Trinity thought Neo was going to die! That’s one of the things the Oracle had apparently told her, and that’s why Trinity was holding back. It’s why she had said “I want to tell you something, but I'm afraid of what it will mean if I do”. A reasonable fear. How would the recently awakened Neo react to such news? Trinity also had to rectify the idea of Neo dying with the assertion that he was The One. On this last point we have Cypher’s later interjection when he is awake in the Nebuchadnezzar and about to unplug Neo: “I mean how can he be the One if he's dead?”. 

 

[sidenote: If this idea that Trinity has been told Neo was going to die is true, then we know that the Oracle was aware which choice Neo was going to make; save his own life or save Morpheus’s. We would also know its best that circumstances prevented Trinity from revealing Neo’s death to him as that would have diluted Neo’s motivation in choosing who to save.]

 

So Trinity is in dilemmaville throughout the story… until near the end when she is standing over a “dead” Neo. It is at this moment she gets it. In an act of faith --and a nice twist on the ‘Princess kisses the frog’ fable-- she kisses Neo and he awakens. She verbalizes her faith just before kissing him with the line: “Neo, I'm not afraid anymore. The Oracle told me that I would fall in love with a dead man. And that man, the man that I loved would be the One. So you see, you can't be dead. You can't be, because I love you. You hear me? I love you.”

 

So there we go. We now know what the Oracle told Trinity, and we now understand what “everything but this” means. We can now desist in having our noodles baked.

 

Except for one thing. The above words are not what Trinity spoke to Neo. And herein lies our giant hole. It appears that Trinity’s actual lines were: “Neo, I'm not afraid anymore. The Oracle told me that I would fall in love with a man. And that man, the man that I loved would be the One. So you see, you can't be dead. You can't be, because I love you. You hear me? I love you.” There’s nothing in that dialog about her being told she would fall for a dead man! This has been heavily debated in the ancient forums, with people going back to watch the movie, turning on the sub-titles, looking over published copies of the script, and even lip reading! When tallied up, the consensus is that Trinity says nothing of the Oracle telling her that Neo would die.

 

So, this explanation too is rendered invalid, yes? No. Not on your life. Neo dying is precisely what Trinity had been afraid of. OK, then why does the dialog not support this assertion? Answer, I think they made a mistake in the film. The film makers at one point have Trinity seemingly knowing from the Oracle that Neo would die (we’ve eliminated the other theories), yet at another point she fails to verify this notion at the crucial moment where she reveals what the Oracle said. It’s basically poor exposition.

 

Keep in mind that there are several such “mistakes” in the film. One example is when Morpheus’s team is trying to escape from the safe house after it is compromised by agents. Cypher trips, falls, then we don’t see him for a while, until suddenly he shows up in the street making a call to jack-out, a fresh accident scene in the background. WTF? How did Cypher get there? How did he break away from the team trapped in the basement of the house? How did the accident occur? What was he doing in the vehicle? I used to puzzle over that each time I viewed the film. One could certainly extrapolate that a plan was in place to safely extract Cypher from the others so that he could live on and receive his reward while everyone else died. The traffic accident could have been staged by the agents to allow Cypher to escape from police custody. But there is no exposition making this connection. I learned years later that the scene I just described as missing was in fact filmed, but had been cut from the release version. There are a number of other incongruities throughout the film (we of course forgive the brother’s because The Matrix is effectively a perfect movie).

 

We are forced to extrapolate with this Trinity thing as well. She must have been told Neo would die. By process of elimination it’s the only explanation that fits. And it fits oh so well. Bear in mind how integral to the film Neo’s death was. One of the fundamental spiritual metaphors the Wachowski Brother’s employed was the resurrection of Jesus. Think about the exchange between Neo and Choi early in the film:

 

Choi: It's Choi.

Neo: Yeah. Yeah. You're two hours late.

Choi: I know, it's her fault.

Neo: You got the money?

Choi: Two grand.

Neo: Hold on.

Choi: Hallelujah. You're my savior, man. My own personal Jesus Christ.

 

Neo is the savior He is the liberator of the lost souls of the Matrix. But to fulfill his destiny he must die. He must die in the matrix, and then transcend the matrix to be born again into a higher plane of existence. Neo’s death and rebirth is the essence of the film. And the Oracle had to inform Trinity of this to prepare her for how to react when she faces a dead Neo. Don’t forget that the Oracle was known for telling people what they needed to hear. Imagine Trinity’s reaction after Smith shoots Neo if she had not been warned he would die. She may well have lost faith at that moment (just as Morpheus lost faith at the end of the second movie).

 

So the fact that the film makers did not properly close the loop in Trinity’s dialog is trivial. The movie is screaming what she knows. At the finale she states she is “not afraid anymore”. She gazes upon the dead man she loves who is The One, and there is only one thing to do... she takes that leap of faith. She kisses the frog --the ‘dead’ man who does not appear to be The One, but in fact is. Trinity knows this. She’s been forewarned.

And so Neo rises from the dead and the prophecy is fulfilled.

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------

A few old threads discussing this topic

http://www.fanpop.co...t-what-did-mean

http://www.inreview....topic/5505.html

http://thematrix101.com/matrix/faq.php

[Caya]

Wow, your explanation certainly makes a lot of sense - the Oracle would tell Trinity that part because she had to be prepared for it. Well done .

 

Also, knowing that other fandoms obsess about minute details and incongruences just as much as we do makes me happier than it probably should .

[coastalcruiser]

Wow, your explanation certainly makes a lot of sense - the Oracle would tell Trinity that part because she had to be prepared for it. Well done .

 

Also, knowing that other fandoms obsess about minute details and incongruences just as much as we do makes me happier than it probably should .

 

Well thank you Martina from Vienna (I love now knowing someone in Vienna). Yeah, well obsession is ok. Anything to keep us off the streets. ;>

 

Jim from California (or as Arnold says; Caleefornia)

[Carol the Dabbler]

If I may dare to post on-topic:  I found it really funny when Sherlock gives the address "221B Baker Street" to the cabbie in the unaired pilot -- like the cabbie is going to drive him upstairs!

 

(Of course Sherl is pretending to be drunk at the time, so maybe that's just part of his act.)

 

 

Welcome to the forum, Jim! 

 

[Arcadia]

If I may dare to post on-topic:

That would be very ambitious of you.

 

I loved that drunk scene, BTW. There's a few things in the pilot I wish they'd kept. The younger look for Sherlock, for one thing, it fits his behavior better.

[coastalcruiser]

If I may dare to post on-topic:  I found it really funny when Sherlock gives the address "221B Baker Street" to the cabbie in the unaired pilot -- like the cabbie is going to drive him upstairs!

 

(Of course Sherl is pretending to be drunk at the time, so maybe that's just part of his act.)

 

 

Welcome to the forum, Jim! 

 

No. No posting on-topic. Quite unreasonable of you to suggest so.

 

Oh, ok. But only if you answer this [off-topic] question: What's this about an un-aired pilot? I have not a TV, so I only have seen the series on Netflix (streaming and DVD). Am I missing something? The first title of the first sesaon on Netflix is 'A study in Pink'. I recall LOVING it, but it's been a while and I can't recall the scene you mention. (I imagine I could google this but it's more fun to chat.)

 

I just don't want to be missing an episode!

 

Oh, and another quesiton... I'm looking at the detective ratings assigned to the left there, based I guess upon how many posts one had made. Is there some detective level where you get like a badge or something? That would be worth shooting for. :>

 

Cheers!

 

[Arcadia]

 

If I may dare to post on-topic:  I found it really funny when Sherlock gives the address "221B Baker Street" to the cabbie in the unaired pilot -- like the cabbie is going to drive him upstairs!

 

(Of course Sherl is pretending to be drunk at the time, so maybe that's just part of his act.)

 

 

Welcome to the forum, Jim! 

 

No. No posting on-topic. Quite unreasonable of you to suggest so.

 

Oh, ok. But only if you answer this [off-topic] question: What's this about an un-aired pilot? I have not a TV, so I only have seen the series on Netflix (streaming and DVD). Am I missing something? The first title of the first sesaon on Netflix is 'A study in Pink'. I recall LOVING it, but it's been a while and I can't recall the scene you mention. (I imagine I could google this but it's more fun to chat.)

 

I just don't want to be missing an episode!

 

Cheers!

 

This seems to be my day for aiding and abetting but you never heard it here: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xtsdwg_ssherlock-2010-unaired-pilot_shortfilms

 

It's the same plot as Study in Pink but presented differently (Sherlock wears jeans, e.g.) It's different enough to be worth watching, imo.

 

If you're not watching the DVDs then you're probably missing the documentary's too, which I find pretty cool. But that's me. I'm sure they're online somewhere.

[coastalcruiser]

This seems to be my day for aiding and abetting but you never heard it here:

It's the same plot as Study in Pink but presented differently (Sherlock wears jeans, e.g.) It's different enough to be worth watching, imo.

 

If you're not watching the DVDs then you're probably missing the documentary's too, which I find pretty cool. But that's me. I'm sure they're online somewhere.

 

 

LOL. I love you man.

 

I've got the actual DVDs for season 3, and enjoying the first extras bits (that's a British term you know). Thank goodnesss the film company did not make a Netflix only DVD sans the extras -- which is a growing trend ya know.

[Arcadia]

I've got the actual DVDs for season 3, and enjoying the first extras bits (that's a British term you know). Thank goodnesss the film company did not make a Netflix only DVD sans the extras -- which is a growing trend ya know.

Yes I do know, and it annoys me no end.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I'm looking at the detective ratings assigned to the left there, based I guess upon how many posts one had made. Is there some detective level where you get like a badge or something? That would be worth shooting for. :>

Oh, darn, mine musta got lost in the mail -- hey, Tim .... !!!

 

I've got the actual DVDs for season 3, and enjoying the first extras bits (that's a British term you know).

You'd probably like the extras for the first two series as well:

 

Series 1:

The unaired pilot

Audio commentaries for two episodes (I think "Study in Pink" and "Great Game")

Mini-documentary

 

Series 2:

Audio commentaries for "Scandal in Belgravia" and "Hounds of Baskerville"

Mini-documentary

[coastalcruiser]

Thank you Carol!

 

jim

[jesskayding]

Well here in Ohio, Pennsylvania in my experience, depends on the apartment complex or duplex. Sometimes they're posted on inside boxes, other times each apartment has their own door at the same address.

[Carol the Dabbler]

In the case of 221B, though, the addresses on neighboring doors are 219 and 223.  So the "B" would seem to be an anomaly.

 

[jesskayding]

Oh...

[Carol the Dabbler]

The explanation given by Moftiss is that all the other movies and TV shows have always done it that way, so it would look funny if they just put the logical "221."  Basically damned if they do and damned if they don't, I guess.