Why does "Blind Banker" bother some people?

[jesskayding]

I know! What's up with PBS editing! Thank goodness for DVD'S I had no idea some of the things I missed.

[jesskayding]

 

 

Thank goodness for photobucket. Here's the clay pot from Taiwan.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I know! What's up with PBS editing! Thank goodness for DVD'S I had no idea some of the things I missed.

 

 

For Series 1 and 2, they tried to cram 90 minutes of program into a 90-minute time slot, along with their own opening credits, introduction, non-commercials, previews, and closing theme.  This meant that they insisted on Hartswood providing them with an 82-minute version of each episode.

 

Thank goodness they finally came to their senses for Series 3, and ran each full 90-minute episode in a two-hour time slot with a made-to-order documentary to take up the now-extra 22 minutes or so.

 

[jesskayding]

On yeah. I saw that when they did HLV.

[PatB]

I quite enjoy BB, and I've seen it 3 times. I especially like the opening scenes and the idea of the girl hiding during the day and coming out at night to do the work on the pots. I also like the whole traditional Chinese thing, recalling Conan Doyle's own day more than our own, the ancient cross-bow, the circus acts, and so on. Basically a Victorian view of the Chinese as a rather sinister but colourful bunch. But the plot is pretty holey. Right away you know you're in for something quite implausible when Chinatown turns out to be about 100 yards up the road from Trafalgar Square. We also have to wonder at Soo Lin's tactical brain. She's supposed to have gone to ground to get away from the Chinese gangs, but unwisely rents a flat directly opposite the shop that serves as a rendezvous for its runners and smugglers. Could have done better, Soo Lin.

[Caya]

Hello PatB and welcome to the forum!

 

And what a way to start here, with that observation - you're perfectly right, she should have noticed something if she's been in the trade for years.

[jesskayding]

Yes. Welcome Pat. So yeah, I went on tangent about this BB thing in another thread & one of the moderators started it as a new topic. Now I fully understand why it bothered people. I guess I was just looking @ it as a wonderful story. But yeah there are things that were done that didn't make since, just so that we could get to a different part of the story.

 

Despite all that. I still really love it, yet its not my favorite. And when I considered all the other episodes. I rank it @ # 7. Whomp whomp

 

But that's only because to me I love them all, even if I would of liked to see something done differently in some of them.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hello, PatB -- welcome to Sherlock Forum! 

 

 

I quite enjoy BB, and I've seen it 3 times. I especially like the opening scenes and the idea of the girl hiding during the day and coming out at night to do the work on the pots. I also like the whole traditional Chinese thing, recalling Conan Doyle's own day more than our own, the ancient cross-bow, the circus acts, and so on. Basically a Victorian view of the Chinese as a rather sinister but colourful bunch. But the plot is pretty holey. Right away you know you're in for something quite implausible when Chinatown turns out to be about 100 yards up the road from Trafalgar Square. We also have to wonder at Soo Lin's tactical brain. She's supposed to have gone to ground to get away from the Chinese gangs, but unwisely rents a flat directly opposite the shop that serves as a rendezvous for its runners and smugglers. Could have done better, Soo Lin.

 

You're the second person I've seen comment on the Victorian flavor of this episode, and I do think you've got a good point there.

 

Minor correction:  John bumps into Sherlock just up Shaftesbury Avenue from Piccadilly Circus (not Trafalgar Square).  Chinatown is very nearby, but as you say, not literally across the street like that (and I believe those shops "across the street" are actually in Cardiff).

 

Yeah, gotta wonder about Soo Lin's brand of logic.  I'm also curious how she managed to get the museum job.  Her only background was drug smuggling, she had no family in London -- but five years on, she's their expert on Chinese pottery?

 

[jesskayding]

Hay, she grew up in the world of crime. I'm sure she could figure out how to amp up a resume. Not only that she's quite attractive. & she's well spoken. So mature. I'm not gay, & I think I fell in love with her. I don't think I'm joking.

[PatB]

Thanks for the welcome. I probably should have introduced myself, but I didn't notice that section of the forum until sometime later. Oh well, I live in Northern Ireland, formerly lving in London, even more formerly Cumbria, and most formerly Malawi... I go back a bit.

 

 

You're the second person I've seen comment on the Victorian flavor of this episode, and I do think you've got a good point there.

 

Minor correction:  John bumps into Sherlock just up Shaftesbury Avenue from Piccadilly Circus (not Trafalgar Square).  Chinatown is very nearby, but as you say, not literally across the street like that (and I believe those shops "across the street" are actually in Cardiff).

 

 

Yep, I got that wrong, didn't I? I've just looked at that episode again. I must have confused it in my memory with a previous scene where we see them going towards the National Gallery. But still it's hard to match up that large outdoor cafe on a busy thoroughfare where the Lucky Cat Emporium is "just over there, Sherlock" with the tiny cafe on a tiny street where Sherlock and John had a cup of coffee, which turns out to be just over there from the Lucky Cat Emporium. Clash of scale somewhere.

 

On the question of the Victorian/Edwardian lenses that we seem to be looking through, I noticed that Soo Lin is even wearing a high-collared dress in the museum while everyone else is in ordinary modern clothes; there's a gang called the Black Lotus; cat-like assassins who climb buildings from the outside; a sub-terranean world of scrawled messages; showdowns in dank, dripping tunnels... it looks like they were deliberately evoking the world of Fu Manchu.

 

Hay, she grew up in the world of crime. I'm sure she could figure out how to amp up a resume. Not only that she's quite attractive. & she's well spoken. So mature. I'm not gay, & I think I fell in love with her. I don't think I'm joking.

 

Nothing wrong with a girly crush occasionally, just for variety. And Soo Lin has such elegance and poise I might even have a girly crush on her myself. And I'm a bloke.

[Tunguska]

I loved the Blind Banker because it has such a Victorian atmosphere within a modern setting. I did not realise it had big plot holes until I read this forum, haha! It's not my favourite but I do think there's so much to love in BB - the little bits of home life (John does all the shopping, Sherlock is completely OK with handing John his bank card), Sherlock's datebombing, 'I took a photo', 'it's in the diary'.

 

One thing I did not get - how did Mr. SprayPaintCipher know on which library shelf to leave his warning symbol? Did he predict LibraryGuy would choose that exact book? Also, if you take out only one book, that cipher would probably be hardly noticable.

[T.o.b.y]

I loved the Blind Banker because it has such a Victorian atmosphere within a modern setting. I did not realise it had big plot holes until I read this forum, haha!

 

Neither did I. But it takes a really big and deep plot hole for me to notice on my own. I usually focus on the characters in a story, and the "poetic logic" of it, and if I like those, then the whole thing kind of makes sense to me and I write of little improbabilities as "fiction magic".

 

But you are right, it takes a lot of that magic to make sense of the way the Black Lotus group acts...

 

I just love the characterizations in this episode and the dynamic between John, Sherlock and Sarah. I had hoped that it would be more like that with Mary. I mean, Sherlock doesn't exactly dislike Sarah or anything, he just grows to tolerate her gradually and organically. I bet if she had stayed on, he would have grown quite used to her.

 

*Sigh*... wouldn't it have been nice if they had let Sarah be Mary and just have her and John's relationship develop gradually in the background while the show continues to focus on cases and Sherlock and John's friendship? Oh well.

 

[Tunguska]

I rarely see plot holes myself although I do have a deep disliking of scientific nonsense or inaccuracies - 'his DNA is MUTATED!' 'Normal people use only 40 percent of their brains!' 'RADIATION!' I'm just glad Sherlock never really goes there and was a bit nervous about Hounds at first

[sittything]

You haven't seen a plot hole until you've seen an X-Files plot hole. lol

 

I don't love the Blind Banker, it struggles to hold my attention at times, but it's not for any plot holes.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... how did Mr. SprayPaintCipher know on which library shelf to leave his warning symbol? Did he predict LibraryGuy would choose that exact book? Also, if you take out only one book, that cipher would probably be hardly noticable.

That's one of the minor plot holes.     (Though I suspect that a sufficiently determined fan could come up with an explanation, and maybe even work it into a short story.)

 

I rarely see plot holes myself although I do have a deep disliking of scientific nonsense or inaccuracies - 'his DNA is MUTATED!' 'Normal people use only 40 percent of their brains!' 'RADIATION!' I'm just glad Sherlock never really goes there and was a bit nervous about Hounds at first

 

You're talking about those Evil Clones?  Yeah, I was a bit nervous right about there myself.  But all in all, Sherlock does manage to sidestep that sort of thing very nicely -- like the way Moriarty's universal computer key code turns out to be a hoax!

 

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

I loved the Blind Banker because it has such a Victorian atmosphere within a modern setting. I did not realise it had big plot holes until I read this forum, haha!

 

Neither did I. But it takes a really big and deep plot hole for me to notice on my own. I usually focus on the characters in a story, and the "poetic logic" of it, and if I like those, then the whole thing kind of makes sense to me and I write of little improbabilities as "fiction magic".

 

That reminds me of this one post floating around somewhere on the internet -- according to that, the mind palace scene in HLV should be considered a metaphor of sorts. There're fans that can do this thing where they break down a scene from literal meaning to metaphorical meaning (*coughcough* loudest-subtext-in-television on Tumblr) to the point where Sherlock becomes a million times deeper than Mofftiss probably intended.

[Redbeard]

 

 

I loved the Blind Banker because it has such a Victorian atmosphere within a modern setting. I did not realise it had big plot holes until I read this forum, haha!

 

Neither did I. But it takes a really big and deep plot hole for me to notice on my own. I usually focus on the characters in a story, and the "poetic logic" of it, and if I like those, then the whole thing kind of makes sense to me and I write of little improbabilities as "fiction magic".

 

That reminds me of this one post floating around somewhere on the internet -- according to that, the mind palace scene in HLV should be considered a metaphor of sorts. There're fans that can do this thing where they break down a scene from literal meaning to metaphorical meaning (*coughcough* loudest-subtext-in-television on Tumblr) to the point where Sherlock becomes a million times deeper than Mofftiss probably intended.

 

 

Yes to the bolded!  I have seen that happen with authors too, I have a friend who was published and so regarded that his book was taught in some writing class.  They went into detail about the deep symbolism of certain things in the book and what the author was really saying.  My friend just laughed and said "Who knew?  Oh well it makes me sound smart so I will go with it.  Smile and nod.  Just smile and nod." 

 

[T.o.b.y]

 

That reminds me of this one post floating around somewhere on the internet -- according to that, the mind palace scene in HLV should be considered a metaphor of sorts. There're fans that can do this thing where they break down a scene from literal meaning to metaphorical meaning (*coughcough* loudest-subtext-in-television on Tumblr) to the point where Sherlock becomes a million times deeper than Mofftiss probably intended.

 

Oh, I bet the level to which interpreting this nine-episode bit of TV fun is taken was never intended at all by any of the creative minds involved. It's not that kind of show. But, it's also not a show for people who don't like to think and wonder and speculate, either.

 

I think it's huge fun to delve into a favorite piece of fiction like that and spend a lot of time turning scenes this way and that, trying to make sense of everything and pretending the characters are real people. I worry, though, that it could reach a point where I take my personal interpretation (or wishful thinking) for an essential part of the story I am dealing with. When I read a comment by one of the writers and it actually makes me angry in an "no, wait, what are you talking about, that's not right!" kind of way, then I know it's time to draw back and remember whom all this really belongs to.

 

And it's also not fair to complain that the creators "don't take their work seriously", as I have seen done lately (not here), just because their attention to detail is not, in fact, as ridiculously minute as the complaining person's, or because they do not have all the answers about their characters, either.

 

If I want total control over a fictional universe, I make up my own. It's never as good as my favorite things that were made by professionals, so I have to accept that they probably do know best, and, if not trust them, then a least respect them for what they do so well.

 

As long as I can remember that - happy obsessing!

 

[Arcadia]

Yes, I've found myself pulling back from wanting certain scenes or plot developments, I'm happier just letting Moftiss toss stuff at me to see what sticks. At the same time, it's fun trying to figure out what they're up to!

[Arcadia]

Since I'm here not wanting certain plot developments -- and at the risk of repeating myself (I can't remember anything I wrote if it was over a week ago....) -- what bothers me about TBB is too much time spent listening to boring peripheral characters. If there's plot holes I haven't noticed them, perhaps because I'm too busy wanting to fast forward through Soo Lin's and General Chan's interminably slow dialog. Gosh, that sounds so mean!!! Oh well, too bad. Except for that, I'm fine with this episode. (My least favorite part of TSo3? Listening to Tessa.......  )

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

 

 

That reminds me of this one post floating around somewhere on the internet -- according to that, the mind palace scene in HLV should be considered a metaphor of sorts. There're fans that can do this thing where they break down a scene from literal meaning to metaphorical meaning (*coughcough* loudest-subtext-in-television on Tumblr) to the point where Sherlock becomes a million times deeper than Mofftiss probably intended.

 

 

Yes to the bolded!  I have seen that happen with authors too, I have a friend who was published and so regarded that his book was taught in some writing class.  They went into detail about the deep symbolism of certain things in the book and what the author was really saying.  My friend just laughed and said "Who knew?  Oh well it makes me sound smart so I will go with it.  Smile and nod.  Just smile and nod." 

 

[MrsMiggins]

For me, I found it a little slow. Not boring or uninteresting on the first watch but just... a bit slow.

[stick]

The problem with this episode is its just not on the same level as the rest, it doesn't draw you in to the point of not wanting to blink in case you miss something. Its not that its bad as its not, any other show (detective ones) producing an episode of this quality would be happy and the audience too but Sherlock's overall quality is so high that this episode not being on the same level as the others means there's a sense of indifference about it.

[Boton]

I think I've said this before, but I do think that TBB did the job it needed to do for the position it is in overall.  It's the second episode of a series, and therefore it has to be case-heavy while we get to know the boys a little better, and it has to be heavy on process so that we can understand what exactly Sherlock Holmes does, if we don't already bring that knowledge in from canon.  The first time I saw it, I really enjoyed it, and it kept me going into TGG.

 

The problem is that it is not a rewatchable episode, and this series is filled with episodes that you watch and rewatch just to get the nuances.  TBB is about broad strokes, not nuance, and that's why I don't rewatch it.  But you have to have those broad strokes in order for the whole series to stand up.

[T.o.b.y]

I think I've said this before, but I do think that TBB did the job it needed to do for the position it is in overall.  It's the second episode of a series, and therefore it has to be case-heavy while we get to know the boys a little better, and it has to be heavy on process so that we can understand what exactly Sherlock Holmes does, if we don't already bring that knowledge in from canon.  The first time I saw it, I really enjoyed it, and it kept me going into TGG.

 

The problem is that it is not a rewatchable episode, and this series is filled with episodes that you watch and rewatch just to get the nuances.  TBB is about broad strokes, not nuance, and that's why I don't rewatch it.  But you have to have those broad strokes in order for the whole series to stand up.

 

I rewatch The Blind Banker. In fact, I've found I like it better now than formerly, because once I got to know the plot, my attention shifted from the case and the silly Chinese circus gangsters to the character work, and I still hugely enjoy how Sherlock and John interact in this episode, and what happens when Sarah joins them. I also like the dynamic between Sherlock and DI Dimmuck (I bet I spelled his name wrong again, but am too lazy to look it up). Lestrade is great, sure, but it is fun to see Sherlock having to try and get along somehow with a police inspector who is not patient and understanding.

 

The Blind Baker is the episode where it's really "just you and me against the rest of the world". Even the client is an asshole. I wonder what this says about me, but I like that. I liked it when Sherlock was still an unknown underdog and John stuck with him and made sure he got paid even though Sherlock treated him like dirt.

 

I'm still hoping the script writer will return for series 4.

 

My initial problem with this episode was the same as with The Hounds of Baskerville: It was too scary for me. I couldn't watch it alone at night. That scene at the beginning, where Soo Lin finds the cipher on the statue... Of course that gets better with rewatching, too.