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A Scandal in Bohemia


Schlauer Fuchs

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I've just finished reading the Scandal in Bohemia (my very first ACD story ^_^) and have one question: In the interviews Steven Moffat mentioned that in the ACD version, Irene Adler is killed in the end. Well, she isn't, is she? So either what I read was but one chapter of the whole Scandal in Bohemia (which I doubt) or Irene features in another Holmes story. Could you please tell me where?

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I also think she isn´t dead because I read the story as well and in the end you´re just learning that she leaved England with her husband but not that she died.

And I´ve never read about her in any other stories, so I´ve read nowhere something about her death in all ACD sories.

 

 

I hope this has helped you

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In the original story, Irene is still alive at the end of the narrative -- but Watson is apparently telling the story well after the fact, and refers to her at the end of the first paragraph as "the late Irene Adler, of dubious and questionable memory."  So although she doesn't die in the story, she has died by the time the story is told.  Considering Watson's low opinion of her, he may have intentionally waited to tell the story, in order not to reflect badly on Irene during her lifetime.

 

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Welcome to the forum, London2211!  :)  Yeah, that's exactly how the story ended in my version, too (surprise ;)). But since I hadn't read another ACD before (actually now I've already read 2  :lol:) I thought maybe her death is described in another story. You obviously know more!

 

And thanks Carol, you're completely right, he calls her the "late" Irene Adler! I had already forgotten that detail when the story suddenly ended even though I was still waiting for an account of how Sherlock couldn't safe her (because Moffat stressed in the commentary that in his version Sherlock saves her, so I always assumed she got killed in ACD's story).

Since we don't know when she died, it might also be that Watson tells the story after two years because he had promised silence until then. That'd suggest that Irene could have died young. But who knows... in your version Watson is more of a man of honour, so maybe I'll associate with your interpretation :)

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Yes, I see Conan Doyle's Watson as, above all, a man of honor -- and that seems to be his defining characteristic in most adaptations, as well.

 

Just in case anyone has a different interpretation of "man of honor" than I do, let me point out that I do NOT mean the knee-jerk type who challenges you to a duel every time you criticize him.  Rather, I mean a trustworthy fellow who would not needlessly hurt anyone's feelings -- or at least that's the part of my definition that's relevant here.

 

And welcome to the forum, london2211!  :welcome:  Thanks for jumping right in with your ideas.

 

I love your avatar picture!  :)

 

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I always thought the "late" referred to the fact that after her encounter with Mr Holmes, Irene Adler's name changed to Irene Norton because she got married.

 

If Irene ever showed up again on Sherlock, I'd love it if she was married to a woman and her last name was Norton now, too. She could still flirt with Sherlock, of course. (She should still flirt with Sherlock). And I want her to be happy. Irene Adler might not deserve happiness by some people's standards, but she sure does by mine.

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I always thought the "late" referred to the fact that after her encounter with Mr Holmes, Irene Adler's name changed to Irene Norton because she got married.

 

Sorry, but that would be "the former Irene Adler."  "The late" always means deceased.  :(

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Except when it means you didn't arrive on time. :smile: ("How would you describe me, John?" "Late." Although perhaps John meant he was ready to kill Sherlock for taking so long to show up .... :P )

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Please note that John described Sherlock as merely "late" -- not as "the late Sherlock Holmes."

 

Mma Ramotswe, the protagonist of the No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency series of novels, often recommends that people drive cautiously rather than rushing, because "it is better to be late than the late."

 

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  • 1 month later...

I always thought "the late Irene Adler" bit was a little confusing.

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  • 7 years later...
7 minutes ago, chongjasmine said:

This story is one of my favourite, and I don't think Irene died.

That's interesting, chongjasmine.  Why do you think Dr. Watson implied that she was dead -- do you think someone had misinformed him, or that he was deliberately not telling the truth, or what?

 

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1 hour ago, chongjasmine said:

I thought maybe he was misinformed.

It would have been easy for that to happen.  As I recall, Irene and her husband had left the country, so getting any news of her would have been difficult, especially back then.

 

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Baring Gould in his chronology (and there are many others) dates A Scandal In Bohemia to May 20th 1888 but the story itself wasn’t published until July 1891 so it could have been the case that Adler had died by the time that the story had come out and as she was quite a well known figure he could have learned this from the newspapers.  There’s nowhere in the series though where it mentions how or where she died although she is mentioned in 3 other stories.

In A Case Of Identity, Watson spots a gold snuffbox and Holmes tells him that it was a gift from the King of Bohemia for his help in the Irene Adler case.

In The Blue Carbuncle, he and Watson are talking about cases that aren’t actually criminal and mentions his effort to retrieve the Irene Adler ‘papers.’ - actually a photograph of course.

and in His Last Bow, he says to Von Bork “ It was I who bought about the separation between Irene Adler and the late King of Bohemia…”

Then of course she makes numerous appearances in pastiches but that’s another story.🙂

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1 hour ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Baring Gould in his chronology (and there are many others) dates A Scandal In Bohemia to May 20th 1888 but the story itself wasn’t published until July 1891 so it could have been the case that Adler had died by the time that the story had come out and as she was quite a well known figure he could have learned this from the newspapers.

It seems clear enough that Watson believed her to be dead -- not only does he refer to her as "late," he also reveals some very personal details of her life, and it was not his habit to disclose such information about the living, except of course for actual criminals.  While Watson does refer to her (twice!) as "the late Irene Adler, of dubious and questionable memory," nothing in his account indicates any criminal activity on her part.

It does seem, however, that news from a distance was a bit iffy in those days, so I'll agree with chongjasmine that Watson may have been misinformed.  It occurs to me, in fact, that he may have been intentionally misinformed by Ms. Adler-Norton herself.  Doesn't it seem odd that in order to escape reprisal by the King of Bohemia, a country in continental Europe, Irene would flee from England *to* continental Europe?  So what the "elderly woman" told Holmes may have been a deliberate lie (on the part of Irene, not her employee), and Irene may have gone to, say, Scotland instead.  Alternatively, the voyage to the Continent may have been merely the first leg of a much longer journey.  Come to think of it, the "elderly woman," whom we had not seen before and who is not otherwise identified except for her reference to Irene as her "mistress" (i.e., employer) -- might she have been Irene herself in disguise?  Even if Holmes suspected as much, he would not have betrayed her to the King.

It would also have been fairly easy for Irene to plant the news of her "death" in some newspaper or other.  As you say, she was well known, so such "news" would have been readily picked up by other sources.  But I assume that all this has been suspected many times before, and sometimes in print!

 

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I’ve just read The Canary Trainer by Nicholas Meyer (who wrote 5 pastiches including The Seven Percent Solution of course) Irene Adler makes a re-appearance and her husband has died.

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6 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I’ve just read The Canary Trainer by Nicholas Meyer (who wrote 5 pastiches including The Seven Percent Solution of course) Irene Adler makes a re-appearance and her husband has died.

Is the story set before the publication of "Scandal"?  And if not, does it explain why Watson described her as "late"?

 

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It is set during Holmes's death/hiatus iirc (read that many years ago) and set in Paris (yes, think Phantom of the Opera). 

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31 minutes ago, Caya said:

It is set during Holmes's death/hiatus iirc

If I've got the chronology anywhere near correct, that would be some time *after* Watson declared Adler dead (in "Scandal").  Do you recall if there's any explanation of why she isn't?

 

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I wish I had that kind of memory, Carol - that was like 25 years ago and I got lent the book by a friend, so I can't even go check, sorry. :unsure:

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4 hours ago, Caya said:

It is set during Holmes's death/hiatus iirc (read that many years ago) and set in Paris (yes, think Phantom of the Opera). 

That’s right Cays.

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4 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

If I've got the chronology anywhere near correct, that would be some time *after* Watson declared Adler dead (in "Scandal").  Do you recall if there's any explanation of why she isn't?

 

No it doesn’t Carol.

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I’ve also got Meyer’s Adventures Of The Peculiar Protocols to read. Plus he released a new Holmes story last year called The Return Of The Pharoah which I haven’t bought yet. So that’s 5 in total that he’s written so far.

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