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Carol the Dabbler

"Reichenbach" Revisited

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... Sherlock's "confession" to Anderson was disproved!

Really?!  I have a number of quibbles with it myself, as do many other people, but I don't recall seeing it actually disproved so far.

 

Please elaborate!  :smile:

 

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Well, Anderson filmed Sherlock 'confessing", but when Sherlock was all done, Anderson said something along the lines of "How did you know that John would stay put?" So, yeah -- how would Sherlock ensure John would stay at that very spot without it seeming too conspicuous?

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We'll never know for sure, I reckon. For myself, even the first time I saw it, I already guessed that most of the people milling around were Sherlock's people ... and one of their jobs was to make sure John was where he needed to be each step of the way. That much to me was pretty obvious, I'm afraid. Really, the only thing that doesn't fully make sense to me is why John had to be kept in the dark for two years, but I suppose I just have to accept the "because he couldn't be trusted to keep his mouth shut" explanation. Which seems kind of a put down of John, to me, but what the hey.

 

Take that back ... the other thing that doesn't make sense to me is, why the body double tossed out the window? All I can figure is that it was a back up plan in case John got too close too soon. On the other hand, I also kind of believe John wasn't even supposed to be there.....

 

Otherwise, though, Sherlock's story rings fairly true to me, if a bit cast so as to put him in a better light..... :smile:

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Well, Anderson filmed Sherlock 'confessing", but when Sherlock was all done, Anderson said something along the lines of "How did you know that John would stay put?" So, yeah -- how would Sherlock ensure John would stay at that very spot without it seeming too conspicuous?

 

I agree that Sherlock's explanation has a lot of holes -- but those could well be "none of your business" holes.  I've never understood that particular objection, though, because it seems obvious to me that John would stay put because Sherlock asked him to.  So no, I don't see that as disproving the whole thing.

 

... the other thing that doesn't make sense to me is, why the body double tossed out the window? All I can figure is that it was a back up plan in case John got too close too soon. On the other hand, I also kind of believe John wasn't even supposed to be there.....

I have never understood that part either. Nor do I understand why Sherlock assumed that Moriarty had used his lookalike to fool Claudette (seems to me there are far easier ways to make her afraid of him).

 

Resorting to real life, I suspect that Moftiss were simply very fond of the idea that Molly's contribution was a corpse, so they kinda shoehorned it in.  (In my pre-Hearse headcanon, Molly's contributions were far greater.)

 

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Anyone else find that big inflatable thing a bit much?  Like it seemed like quite the production.  Do you guys take that as canon, or no?  What if he just landed in the truck instead and it pulled away? 

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Yes to both; I think it's the "correct" explanation, and I think it's a bit much! The racket from inflating one of those things would be pretty considerable, you'd think. Personally, I would've preferred that the mattress be hidden in the truck, already inflated. Then the body double would've made sense, too (since Sherlock, presumably, would have been driven off in the truck.)

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I know a lot of people hold onto the theory with the truck, but I can't really see how he was supposed to get in there. I estimate that the distance between the hospital and the truck is about 2 1/2 to 3 metres, so Sherlock would have needed to push off really hard to jump that far. But he merely falls down. So I see no way he could have landed in the truck. In my version he does fall onto the blue pad, but there is no lookalike corpse. Sherlock just lay down on the pavement as soon as the blue pad was gone, I see no need for another body. In my version, Molly's role was only to fake the records and maybe provide some blood that his homeless network could spill over the pavement. The one big problem I have is the question why the sniper didn't shoot John, because he must have seen the blue mattress at some point.

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Well, what I meant was, I would have staged it so that the truck WAS in the right position. In other words, I would have filmed it differently. :D I suppose Moftiss found that too obvious.

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Yes, that corpse seemed really pointless.  And I've always assumed that Molly did a lot more to help him fake his death other than just dumping a dead body on the sidewalk.

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Anyone else find that big inflatable thing a bit much?  Like it seemed like quite the production.  Do you guys take that as canon, or no?  What if he just landed in the truck instead and it pulled away? 

 

To my mind, the biggest problem with Big Blue is that John's cab would have driven right by it while it was being inflated.  Sure, he's distracted, but still....

 

The truck seemed the obvious answer.  The first time we watched "Reichenbach," I didn't notice the truck, but I deduced its presence -- I said to Alex, "Obviously, there has to be a garbage truck."  But then once we spotted it (a laundry truck, apparently), I started thinking it might be just a tad too obvious -- ergo perhaps a red herring.  Besides, escape by garbage truck had been such a cliche on American television a few decades ago.

 

Yes to both; I think it's the "correct" explanation, and I think it's a bit much! The racket from inflating one of those things would be pretty considerable, you'd think. Personally, I would've preferred that the mattress be hidden in the truck, already inflated. Then the body double would've made sense, too (since Sherlock, presumably, would have been driven off in the truck.)

 

I agree, Big Blue should have been hidden under those laundry bags.  But as has been pointed out numerous times (even by Sherlock), the curb is quite a distance from the building, so they'd have needed to pull it off the truck, then put it back on and cover it up -- still easier than inflating it off-stage and carrying it on, I would think.  And far less likely that John would see anything.

 

... I see no need for another body. In my version, Molly's role was only to fake the records and maybe provide some blood that his homeless network could spill over the pavement. The one big problem I have is the question why the sniper didn't shoot John, because he must have seen the blue mattress at some point.

 

Indeed -- we saw his view of John right after Sherlock was carted away, and John was standing more or less where Big Blue had been.  I guess that's why Moftiss decided they'd invite him to reconsider (though I think that introduces far more problems than it solves).

 

Yes, that corpse seemed really pointless.  And I've always assumed that Molly did a lot more to help him fake his death other than just dumping a dead body on the sidewalk.

 

Yes!  Like enlist some real doctors and nurses to play doctors and nurses.  As Schlauer Fuchs said, file the proper faked documents and supply a bag or two of blood (presumably outdated blood from the hospital supply).  Hide Moriarty's body.  Retrieve Sherlock's cell phone.  Put on a two-year show of grief for John's benefit.  Line up the laundry truck (which presumably serves the hospital).  Anything else?

 

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... I estimate that the distance between the hospital and the truck is about 2 1/2 to 3 metres, so Sherlock would have needed to push off really hard to jump that far. But he merely falls down.....

It's kinda blurry, but judging by Google Satellite View, I think that sidewalk is right around ten feet wide, which is 3 meters.  Then you'd need to add the distance from where Sherlock is standing on the ledge to the actual edge of the roof, plus the distance from the curb to the center line of the truck.

 

He doesn't exactly just fall, he's sort of sky-diving.  But even so, 10-15 feet is quite a distance to fly when your only wings are a Belstaff coat.

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Yes to both; I think it's the "correct" explanation, and I think it's a bit much! The racket from inflating one of those things would be pretty considerable, you'd think. Personally, I would've preferred that the mattress be hidden in the truck, already inflated. Then the body double would've made sense, too (since Sherlock, presumably, would have been driven off in the truck.)

 

Oops, one more comment -- I still don't think the body double would've made any sense, because there's NO WAY it would have fooled John at close range.  But Sherlock could've hopped off the truck easily enough (or just hopped off of Big Blue if they had temporarily moved it down to the sidewalk for his landing).

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I can kind of make the body double make sense if Molly used it to help prove Sherlock was dead, to weight down the coffin, stuff like that.

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I can see a body double for all of the mortuary and following. But for immediately after the fall I don't se why it's necessary since Sherlock is already down there. He can just stay laying there with all of the help rushing in.

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Maybe there was no body on the sidewalk?  The other thread got me thinking, but if Sherlock only gave Anderson pieces of the truth, he may have not told him exactly what Molly's involvement was.  Maybe he manufactured this sidewalk body dumping job to protect her.  If anyone found out how much Molly probably had to fudge to help him fake his death, that's a huge career risk for her.   Maybe the sidewalk body doesn't make much sense b/c it never happened and didn't need to happen.

 

 

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Hm I'm probably wrong but... didn't John see the fake body just before he was hit by the cyclist and before Sherlock had time to cover himself in blood and lie down on the pavement? I think he did, actually.

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You're right, Janie, there is some blood under his head (unless it's a very hard shadow), however I can't see any blood on his face at that point.

 


To my mind, the biggest problem with Big Blue is that John's cab would have driven right by it while it was being inflated.  Sure, he's distracted, but still....

 

I think it would have driven by while the people dragged it to Sherlock's landing position. And John sat on the other side of the cab, preparing to get off. He was probably getting out some money for the cab driver, after all he gets off of the cab the moment it stops and I guess London cabbies aren't keen to do their job for free ;)
 

 


Indeed -- we saw his view of John right after Sherlock was carted away, and John was standing more or less where Big Blue had been.  I guess that's why Moftiss decided they'd invite him to reconsider (though I think that introduces far more problems than it solves).

 

I agree with the "reconsidering" introducing even more problems. Because why did they allow him to point a gun at John for such a long time, never knowing when he'd decide to shoot? And we see him unhurridly pack in his gun again and then move away with it, it doesn't really look as if he was being threatened at all.

 

 

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Yes, that corpse seemed really pointless.  And I've always assumed that Molly did a lot more to help him fake his death other than just dumping a dead body on the sidewalk.

 

Oh, but she did! Remember Irene "knowing the record keeper"? That's what Molly was for Sherlock. He needed to be declared dead by someone - and Molly did that. She risked her job and probably also time in jail by deliberately faking the necessary paperwork and lying to the authorities for him.

 

Of course they needed a lookalike corpse for the funeral. Not that I think it was open casket, but since his body didn't officially disappear, Molly would have had to take another one and just say it was Sherlock, have it buried (or cremated and then buried) under his name. Then she'd have to come up with some ideas on how to disguise the fact that now the stand-in corpse was officially missing - best use someone who didn't have any family to ask odd questions.

 

Why Molly got away with all this once it turned out Sherlock Holmes was alive is anyone's guess, and the fact that she was is one of the delightful little differences between Sherlock's world and ours. In a pinch, of course, you can always explain things like that with the one word "Mycroft". I guess that's why Mycroft needs to be there in the first place.

 

The second corpse on the pavement makes no sense to me at all. John was knocked out by the bike after Sherlock jumped and before he could see round the corner, so why couldn't Sherlock have just rolled off the airbag and started playing dead right away?

 

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Oh, goody! I never got to discuss the TRF theories enough before, more fun!!

 

I agree with the "reconsidering" introducing even more problems. Because why did they allow him to point a gun at John for such a long time, never knowing when he'd decide to shoot? And we see him unhurridly pack in his gun again and then move away with it, it doesn't really look as if he was being threatened at all.

I'm thinking this could be easily explained away (someday :( ) by trick camera angles and such. In other words, the person we saw packing his gun was not necessarily the same one looking through the rifle scope at John. Maybe it was one of Mycroft's people we saw instead, or something like that.

 

Hm I'm probably wrong but... didn't John see the fake body just before he was hit by the cyclist and before Sherlock had time to cover himself in blood and lie down on the pavement? I think he did, actually.

The second corpse on the pavement makes no sense to me at all. John was knocked out by the bike after Sherlock jumped and before he could see round the corner, so why couldn't Sherlock have just rolled off the airbag and started playing dead right away?

What Janie says points to the only thing I've been able to come up with ... the body double was there in case John saw more than they wanted him to see before the cyclist hit him. Sherlock would have landed in a different spot than the corpse did, after all, maybe they were making sure he had time to get into place before John saw him up close?

 

Let's see if this works:

- The body lands. At the same time, Sherlock lands farther away (with big squelching sound as he hits the air mattress that no one hears... :blink: )

- Sherlock isn't "right there", he doesn't have time to get into place before John sees the body.

- John sees body first, then is knocked down by cyclist. While he's out of action, Sherlock replaces body.

 

Okay, that's the best I got, hack away at it!

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Oh, goody! I never got to discuss the TRF theories enough before, more fun!!

 

I'm thinking this could be easily explained away (someday :( ) by trick camera angles and such. In other words, the person we saw packing his gun was not necessarily the same one looking through the rifle scope at John. Maybe it was one of Mycroft's people we saw instead, or something like that.

 

Mycroft's people aiming at John? :blink:

 

 

Let's see if this works:

- The body lands. At the same time, Sherlock lands farther away (with big squelching sound as he hits the air mattress that no one hears... :blink: )

- Sherlock isn't "right there", he doesn't have time to get into place before John sees the body.

- John sees body first, then is knocked down by cyclist. While he's out of action, Sherlock replaces body.

 

Could of course be true, but I do still think Sherlock didn't really jump off, to me it looks as if he just "lets go" and falls down. The he would have landed on the blue thing, got off it because it had to be gone when John came ("speed was paramount") and then could just have laid down where the mattress had been moments before for John to see him. It's so much easier, no danger that John could look up too early again and see the body double being dragged away.

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I think [John's cab] would have driven by while the people dragged [the air bag] to Sherlock's landing position. And John sat on the other side of the cab, preparing to get off. He was probably getting out some money for the cab driver, after all he gets off of the cab the moment it stops....

 

Yes, it could have happened that way -- but how could Sherlock be even halfway certain that it would? Hmm, thinking -- yes, John naturally got in on the curb side of the cab, so it could certainly be expected that he'd exit on that side as well, facing away from Bart's. But then I'm remembering the intermediate shots of him looking out the other side. All it would have taken was a glance. And (I'm starting to sound like Anderson now) what if the cab had brought him further around the circle? The part right in front of Bart's is a bus stop (raising the question of precisely how did they make sure there wouldn't be a busload of people witnessing the whole thing?), but what about the general area where the bicycle hit John? Gaaaah!

 

I agree with the "reconsidering" introducing even more problems. Because why did they allow him to point a gun at John for such a long time, never knowing when he'd decide to shoot? And we see him unhurridly pack in his gun again and then move away with it, it doesn't really look as if he was being threatened at all.

I suppose they could have been waiting for him as he came down the stairs, and we wouldn't have seen that. But as you say, what if he'd shot John as soon as he saw Sherlock fake the fall?

  

Remember Irene "knowing the record keeper"? That's what Molly was for Sherlock. He needed to be declared dead by someone - and Molly did that. She risked her job and probably also time in jail by deliberately faking the necessary paperwork and lying to the authorities for him.

I agree that she must have done that. It's consistent with Lestrade saying "Molly Hooper laid him out" (which my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary says means "to prepare a body to be buried," and in this context apparently refers to the legal formalities and perhaps an autopsy). But it would have been nice for Sherlock to mention, however briefly, more of the things that made her "the one who mattered most."

 

Of course they needed a lookalike corpse for the funeral. Not that I think it was open casket, but since his body didn't officially disappear, Molly would have had to take another one and just say it was Sherlock, have it buried (or cremated and then buried) under his name.

Now I'm getting a mental image of Molly intentionally bashing in the corpse's face, so the funeral personnel couldn't see that he wasn't all that good a double, facially speaking. There was no news coverage of the fall, and a bashed-in head would certainly be consistent with falling off a four-story building, so she would get away with that pretty easily, I think.  And if it needed doing, she would definitely do it.

 

But speaking of no news coverage -- what about all the people who presumably live and/or work in the surrounding buildings? Why were there no photos posted on Twitter, like "Look at this weird guy landing on an airbag, then pretending to be dead? What's with that?"

 

The second corpse on the pavement makes no sense to me at all. John was knocked out by the bike ... before he could see round the corner....

Well, no, he wasn't. He did have a brief glimpse of the corpse just before the bike hit him (or at least we did, over his shoulder). But why couldn't the bike have just hit him a little sooner?

 

I'm thinking this could be easily explained away (someday :( ) by trick camera angles and such. In other words, the person we saw packing his gun was not necessarily the same one looking through the rifle scope at John. Maybe it was one of Mycroft's people we saw instead, or something like that.

That's what I was thinking, until Julia Mae posted screencaps of that fellow and one of the photos that Mycroft showed John, which do seem to be the same man. On the other hand, who's to say that Mycroft's photos weren't of his own people? (In which case -- considering what happened to two of them -- remind me never to work for Mycroft!)

 

Let's see if this works:

- The body lands. At the same time, Sherlock lands farther away (with big squelching sound as he hits the air mattress that no one hears... :blink: )

- Sherlock isn't "right there", he doesn't have time to get into place before John sees the body.

- John sees body first, then is knocked down by cyclist. While he's out of action, Sherlock replaces body.

Yeah, I think that's how we're supposed to see it. Except for the big squelching sound, of course (or maybe it was a big "whoompf" sound). But that reminds me of the only reason I ever thought of for the corpse -- sound effects! John would (at least subconsciously) expect to hear a sickening "thud" as Sherlock hit the pavement, and the corpse did provide that.

 

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How noisy are the large industrial airbags that are typically used in Hollywood? If they run relatively quiet then definitely would need a corpse for the this. If they run loud, then there needs to other noise to cover it up and a corpse falling would not be necessary.

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But speaking of no news coverage -- what about all the people who presumably live and/or work in the surrounding buildings? Why were there no photos posted on Twitter, like "Look at this weird guy landing on an airbag, then pretending to be dead? What's with that?"

 

I suppose this is where the newspaper headline "refit for historic hospital" comes in that we were shown briefly in A Scandal in Belgravia. Sherlock says the street was closed off - probably Mycroft's doing, but if there was major construction going on at Barts, then that must have been a lot easier to sell to the public. Also, it would mean that the hospital was probably a lot less full than usual. Maybe Mycroft even managed to get other buildings in the area evacuated for the day - they could claim that the repairs work was in some way dangerous. Or something like that.

 

 

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While looking for Julia Mae's post that I linked to above, I found another of hers from the pre-S3 era, where she points out that our old friend the laundry truck may not have been just a red herring after all.  It may have prevented John's sniper from seeing Sherlock actually land.

 

Although I think that works reasonably well with what we saw in "Reichenbach," it unfortunately does not fit with certain things shown in "Empty Hearse" -- such as the airbag being dragged from the ambulance station to the other side of the street.

 

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I've determined that I love autocorrect on my phone..Not.  I realized a few spelling errors in my last post.  That I didn't catch then.

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