Mycroft Holmes

[Arcadia]

And she still may be! :d

[Carol the Dabbler]

The name of her book is a definite tease, since it's a variation on the title of a mongraph written by ACD's Professor Moriarty.  So who knows what they may have in mind -- or cook up later on.

[Boton]

 

 

Oh, gad, I'm going to do it.  So far, I've resisted getting into any discussions that go the direction of wanting the Sherlock characters to represent my own experience, but I'm going to jump in just to defend Mummy Holmes.

 

Ages ago, I mentioned that I test as EPG (exceptionally/profoundly gifted), and Toby and I had a great discussion about that which continued in PM for a while. I'm probably not dissimilar to either Mummy Holmes or Mycroft (except I don't have kids).  I also have been a fairly keen ballroom dancer for over a decade now, and I love a good line dance, too.  To me, it is not at all incongruent to say that someone can be very intelligent and academically precocious, and also say that they enjoy being domestic and pursuing hobbies that don't require using all your intellectual firepower all the time.

 

Intelligence is kind of like height.  Just because you're tall doesn't mean you store everything in your house near the ceiling or that you have to play basketball to really enjoy yourself.   :D

 

 

Thank you for adding a real-life perspective! It wasn't the fact that she might have unusual hobbies that made her seem flaky to me (I have a bit of a range myself), but the fact that she would give up her career and never return to it (assuming she didn't), and only maintain those hobbies, after the kids left home. I wonder, do you find it at all odd that Mrs. Holmes completely abandoned mathematics, or do you think that fits too? For a while, I thought she hadn't and was hiding some secret other career or identity.

 

 

Narratively, I'm glad they left Mummy open with lots of possibilities so they could tell a story about her someday.  (Although, now that we've had Eurus, I doubt if they would make her any kind of villain.)

 

In real life, I think lots of gifted folks, and maybe especially EPG folks, abandon their first careers and do something else, or lots of somethings-else in series.  When you look at the distribution of careers inside Mensa (which is top 2% tested IQ), you have probably as many if not more people who are waiting tables as you do people who are scientists.  (Lots of confounding reasons for this, but I'll leave the generalization there.)  Also, there's some research that shows that high-IQ folks tend to "drill down" into a topic until they are satisfied with it, then move to something else, often unrelated.  Maybe Mummy's book was the ultimate project that showed that she was satisfied with what she discovered about mathematics, and she moved on to other interests in her life.  So this doesn't ring untrue for me.

 

One other fact:  academic mathematics is a game for the young, with most significant break-throughs made before the person turns 35 or 40.  If Mummy quit at 33 to have Mycroft and stayed home during that time awaiting Sherlock at 40 and Eurus at 41, she would have been perceived as "too old" to contribute to that kind of research by the time she was willing to return.  If she wasn't happy with the idea of playing second banana teaching intro Calculus at some second rate university, she may have opted to move on.

[J.P.]

Re Mummy: Once I read an autobiography of Richard Feynmann, Noble Prize receiver in physics. What I mostly remember about it - the thought, that his social live would kill me in a week. I have a blurred memory of samba playing in a band or something like that.

[Boton]

Yeah, exactly.

 

So let's take that back to Mycroft.  He's definitely exceptionally or profoundly gifted; what do you think he secretly does for entertainment?  It really can't all be international intrigue.

 

We've seen him exercising at home on his treadmill, so maybe he likes to run or even competes in races?  (I see him as kind of a half-marathon sort of guy.) We've seen him having a drink by the fire, so maybe he's a connoisseur of fine beverages? He also apparently has an umbrella that conceals both a sword and a pistol, so perhaps he practices some sort of martial art or hand-to-hand fighting technique?

[Pseudonym]

 

So let's take that back to Mycroft.  He's definitely exceptionally or profoundly gifted; what do you think he secretly does for entertainment?  

 

Maybe Lady Smallwood ;)

[Boton]

LOLOLOL!    

[bedelia1984]

It seems to me like Mycroft might be in some kind of secret community theatre group.

[J.P.]

He likes old movies. I like to imagine that he likes cooking. That's why he needs that treadmill.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Hu-huuuuy... Mycroft's thread is out.

 

..other in TEH about him having never met a woman ...

Actually I don't remember this... :o

I always think of Mycroft as a straight actually, but he doesn't incorporate intimacy in his lifestyle. In my head, he tried, and find it nah. Not worth the effort. Too much, euh.. not leg, whatever parts, works. :p

He probably find someone with similar role, as intelligent and respectable as Lady Smallworth quite interesting though.

 

I fully expected him to pick up her phone number with like a pair of tweezers and delicately toss it in the trash lol..

Tweezers? :D and why would he has one nearby? Does he pick on ingrown hairs or blackheads on his free time?

 

But this season humanized him a lot. His interactions with Sherlock were warmer than before, including being genuinely happy at Sherlock's praising his acting! Also acting like a jerk so it would be easier for Sherlock to shoot him, his physical and emotional reactions to Eurus's games, and even allowing himself to be comforted by Mummy at the end! Unlike Eurus, Mycroft is just as capable as Sherlock of embracing his emotions and human connections if he would only allow himself to, he is just figuring it out later but he could get there eventually.

Yes, I agree that we actually see a lot more softer side from Mycroft.

I actually think Mycroft cares a lot, not always in normal ways, but he tries. More on this later.

 

I caught the end of TFP on TV again last night, and it got me to thinking about that "five minutes alone with Moriarty" bit, and what it says about Mycroft, which is that he's a bit of a creepy bastard. (Not that we didn't know that already. :P) Not only did he cause his parents to think Eurus burned to death; he locked the girl away for life without access to mental health services or human contact, and he was using her ... her intellect was simply another resource to help him in his work. And then there's the colossal mistake of allowing her to contact Moriarty; simply so he can use her some more.

 

I think we're seeing in S4 how much of Mycroft's behavior is due to the same thing as Sherlock's ... arrogance.

 

Whattt? Creepy bastard? XD

 

Mycroft makes questionable decisions, yes, but I don't say that is exactly arrogance, especially the five minutes contact with Moriarty. He did what he thought was necessary. In his position, it's most likely that he always has to make difficult decision, and most often than not, it's never clean cut decision and he has to make it fast. If five minutes with Moriarty was all she asked in exchange of valuable information that had been proven to save lives by preventing terror attack, it seems like good deal. What would you do in his position? Eurus's deal seems like a good choice back then, based on his ability to control Eurus for years at that time.

 

Yes, he was making use of her and treated her (badly, but that's up for debate to), to me, people like Mycroft and Sherlock making cold-hearted decision is necessary to get important things done, although with that they wouldn't become the most loveable or kindest people. Can anyone imagine if the world is full of loving empathetic people who make most decisions based on heart? Yah, it,'s probably nice, if everyone is like that, means no baddies, no terrorists and full of carebears. (Holy smoke it would be full of hugs and group hugs. Good god! XD)

But it's not real.

 

As long as there are, let me borrow [Trump's term], bad people,[/end of Trump], we need scalpels, and they don't exist for affections, so most actually appear and behave like cold-hearted jerks, maybe they are, but it's probably not easy to face the world, trying to fix and make it better, while making mistakes and being misunderstood, because not many others want to take up the responsibilities.

(To be clear, I'm only talking about him bringing in Moriarty and his other professional occupation related stuff, not about locking up Eurus, because that, I also find it very questionable)

 

 

I think you and I probably can agree to disagree on his level of responsibility for what went wrong in TFP. In the end that isn't hugely important, compared to the fact that we see Mycroft as very human, because the risks he does take in keeping Eurus secret are a tremendous burden to him, and he does it with the intention of keeping his family safe- it shows a very strong love for Sherlock and his family, which is quite touching.

Yes to this.

I always defend that Mycroft is trying very hard to be a good big brother, despite his numerous flaws and failed attempts. The scene in TAB where he sadly sit beside high Sherlock pretty much sums it up for me. That he is aware about it, makes effort to track down and be there for Sherlock, and probably tries countless ways to approach or cure his little brother, making list etc.

 

One of the stupidest, but best intention, normally driven by unconditional love, is attempt to make the person you care for thinks that the world is better than it is, and still try to protect you from that.

It's messed up, yes, but to me, that is exactly the reason why Mycroft lied about Eurus.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Okay, for some reason the system is trying to cut back my post.

So I actually had longer post and upon review it was all fine, but on the final posting it misses a good chunk of my post in the middle part.

 

After trying unsuccessfully for sometimes, it still doesn't work. I probably had too much quotes, but still, instead of telling me, it took the liberty to wipe out sone of my post, rude! And on top of that, it is sneaky enough to only wipe the middle part, makes me think that nothing is missing because the beginning and end are intact.

 

Here are the missing parts, I'm glad I saved it.

 

 

Also I think we're not given enough information to render a value judgement on Mycroft's actions. You could argue it was foolish for him to let Euros speak to Moriarty for 5 minutes but it was still only 5 minutes. Remember Mycroft wasn't just letting her talk to Moriarty for nothing. Euros assisted him in national security matters such as when she predicted a terrorist attack by using twitter. However Euros required rewards for her services.

 

We don't know what Euros did for Mycroft in return for letting her talk to Moriarty. It may have been something that led to saving millions of lives. It may have been worth it.

 

Also I have to say that I don't find Mycroft's belief that he won't be manipulated by Euros to be arrogance. I think he was right.

 

 

Ah yes, I should have just use this for my earlier point. I agree with you.

 

Well, we know three of them are cannibals lol.

Come to think of that, Eurus's cell looks pretty much like Hannibal's. Same glass box, colour scheme, even the place where she passed the violin to Sherlock looks quite similar.

This is one scary working place eh..

[Van Buren Supernova]

And... apparently it still steals the middle of my post.

This is weird. And I spent all the time I have here for these. Geez.

 

 

Missing parts.

 

 

 

Maybe the baby has scared him away from Baker Street for good?

But why? The baby seems.... fully functional.

 

So, in my view, Mycroft should be expecting her, as a notable genius, to try every trick she can to get out, and have been arranging independent security checks from staff with a quick turnover, so Eurus had no time to build relationships and manipulate.

You are right. I had a friend who worked as prison security, and according to her, they are rotated regularly to avoid getting attached to the inmates.

However, for something as secretive as Sherringford, it could be difficult to involve too many staffs. That makes me wonder as well, is Sherringford merely a very high security prison, or is it secret high security prison that probably has some sort of behavioral research for the most messed up law breaker?

Although it's really hard for me to understand why a five-years old was sent there without further effort to rehab/reform (?) her. It seems like she was tried as adult.

[Van Buren Supernova]

Taxpayer money going on terrible wallpaper and cake. So sad.  :'(

Why would you complain about money spent on cake? Why? Why, Pseud? Why?

:p

 

 

 

 

 

5 Season Name Is : Mycroft's empty fridge. ))

 

I think that is his secret bolt hole. :p

 

 

One other fact: academic mathematics is a game for the young, with most significant break-throughs made before the person turns 35 or 40. If Mummy quit at 33 to have Mycroft and stayed home during that time awaiting Sherlock at 40 and Eurus at 41, she would have been perceived as "too old" to contribute to that kind of research by the time she was willing to return. If she wasn't happy with the idea of playing second banana teaching intro Calculus at some second rate university, she may have opted to move on.

I am curious about this fact.

This is probably applicable for mediocre mathematician, but for exceptional ones, I don't see difficulty of them adapting back to teaching in top uni, especially merely Calculus. And I think in that case, ages doesn't really matter.

This is assumption though that she is exceptional.

 

I can actually see her as gifted, intelligent but not on very extraordinary level, not on the level of her children.

 

In my mind, mummy Holmes might have difficulty in trying to 'get' her genius children and she herself may be socially awkward as well in term of relationship. But from the way she treats the boys, trying to meddle, to get in their lives, I'd think she tries hard, eventhough it seems like fruitless effort, she actually achieves something; both of his boys are on the side of angels. That means a lot actually. They have all capabilities not to.

 

And I also agree that Mycroft takes the responsibility himself for his brother and sister, again, flawed, but with best intention.

 

@uncle rudi

I agree with opinion that uncle Rudi sort of came in and tried to help taking care of their problem. In my mind, he was what Mycroft is.

Although, to be honest, it's difficult to think of him that way while imagining that he dressed like All. XD

[Pseudonym]

:O Why would he be dressed like All?! 

 

My problem with the cake is that Mycroft gets it and I don't. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Pseud, this is presumably the same Uncle Rudy that was mentioned in HLV as a cross-dresser.

 

VBS: I won't argue with any of your actual points, but -- even though a lot of fans have been spelling the uncle's name as "Rudi" (I'm guessing that's how the subtitles had it), the HLV shooting script has it spelt as the usual English "Rudy," and I consider that to be definitive.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I actually wanted to ask how it is normally spelled.

 

I used Rudi because I saw it somewhere in this/other threads, and since I don't know the correct English spelling, I just used that.

Actually I'm also more familiar with Rudy.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

And yes for the All question.

[Boton]

 

One other fact: academic mathematics is a game for the young, with most significant break-throughs made before the person turns 35 or 40. If Mummy quit at 33 to have Mycroft and stayed home during that time awaiting Sherlock at 40 and Eurus at 41, she would have been perceived as "too old" to contribute to that kind of research by the time she was willing to return. If she wasn't happy with the idea of playing second banana teaching intro Calculus at some second rate university, she may have opted to move on.

I am curious about this fact.

This is probably applicable for mediocre mathematician, but for exceptional ones, I don't see difficulty of them adapting back to teaching in top uni, especially merely Calculus. And I think in that case, ages doesn't really matter.

This is assumption though that she is exceptional.

 

I can actually see her as gifted, intelligent but not on very extraordinary level, not on the level of her children.

 

 

To be internationally competitive in mathematics, one is typically young.  The same is true to a lesser degree in academic physics.  In both fields, it is assumed that one will make one's major breakthrough when one is younger than 40, and then they will continue to teach that particular breakthrough or area for the remainder of their career, while new innovations are made by the fresh blood in the field.  

 

Now, it could very well be that Mummy's book is her major contribution to the field, and then she might find a home at a major university on the strength of that particular finding or set of findings and settle in to spend the remainder of her career working on that particular area.  But if she had not made her major contribution to the field by the time she quit to have children, it is unlikely that many in the field would have taken her seriously on her return.

 

That's not a commentary on her intelligence; she's obviously plenty smart, and she wouldn't have any trouble teaching.  It also doesn't have anything to do with quitting to become a mother; this isn't a gender issue.  Rather, it is just the fact that mathematics (and, as I said, physics) is infamous in academics for eating up a person's youth and expecting one to make a major contribution early on.

 

If Mummy was at all interested in the research side of math, she needed to make her mark early; in fact, that's as good a head canon reason as any to explain why she waited until she was 33 to have Mycroft and then had such a long gap before  Sherlock and Eurus.  Perhaps she was on the verge of a discovery, had a child but relied on nannies until she could complete her research and publication, then quit for good when the younger children came along.

[Pseudonym]

I'm a bit conflicted at finding that last one sexy. 

 

[SherlockedCAMPer]

How about extremely handsome then? Or maybe somewhat hot?

[Pseudonym]

I like Gatiss, but whilst I don't think he's hideous he doesn't usually appeal to me. Which is why this is weirding me out, it's a sudden shift, what if... what if Sherlock isn't the only sexy one? What if Mycroft can hold his own? :O

 

[Arcadia]

Horrors! :p

[J.P.]

Well, Sherlock is such a kid! :P

[Pseudonym]

A forty year old kid. 

[Redbeard]

Yes I wouldn't doubt that Mycroft might hold a few surprises lol.  

[bedelia1984]

I wonder what sort of date would Mycroft would take Lady Smallwood on?