Moriarty's Past

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

(Dunno if there's a thread for this already. If there is, it's dead and buried somewhere on this forum, and I guess I'm resurrecting it. :P))

 

 

 

 

I think I'll just jump right in. Intros were never really my thing, actually...

 

We don't really know much about Moriarty's past. But I figure we can at least garner some possibilities as to his life pre-Sherlock timeline, right? Because in TGG, during the pool scene, Sherlock says "People have died," to which Moriarty responds, "That's what people DO!"

 

And maybe Moriarty was only trying to be intimidating, but maybe Sherlock inadvertently touched on a pressure point -- the death of somebody close to Moriarty.

 

Any ideas? 

[Shadow Dweller]

Sounds like they might be people who 'matter' to him. Not necessarily caretaker-figure, could be people who were especially close to him. A sense of betrayal, rejected and anger in the face of tragedy which then turned into a fuel to fight whatever enemy that he choose later. Stayin' alive, attempting to become a top dog in order to avoid being 'helpless' ever again. However, being on the top might not be like he envisioned, thus half-living, he went to search for other 'toys' to fill that empty space. Moriarty was an angry person

[besleybean]

I don't see any of that at all.

For me Moriarty was merely saying the obvious: the only thing certain about life is death.

[Arcadia]

Sounds like they might be people who 'matter' to him. Not necessarily caretaker-figure, could be people who were especially close to him. A sense of betrayal, rejected and anger in the face of tragedy which then turned into a fuel to fight whatever enemy that he choose later. Stayin' alive, attempting to become a top dog in order to avoid being 'helpless' ever again. However, being on the top might not be like he envisioned, thus half-living, he went to search for other 'toys' to fill that empty space. Moriarty was an angry person

I had a similar thought; he comes across as a very damaged person to me. Or maybe that's just the way Andrew Scott plays him.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Moriarty definitely seems like a damaged person, someone who went through trauma when he was younger that may have led him down the path he took including the thing with Carl Powers.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

Moriarty definitely seems like a damaged person, someone who went through trauma when he was younger that may have led him down the path he took including the thing with Carl Powers.

 

"Carl laughed at me, so I stopped him, laughing."

[T.o.b.y]

Hmmm, I have real trouble imagining a past life for Moriarty. Probably because he doesn't seem very real to me. He isn't a person so much as just a villain. Perhaps that will change when we learn more about him in series 4. But I do think he really has an antisocial (true "sociopathic") personality and is probably incapable of empathy or remorse. Which doesn't mean he couldn't have ever grieved about the loss of anyone.

[Bendydoodle Cantaloupe]

I see why you'd think that, but consider this: It usually takes time for somebody to become that sort of person. You remember the murder of Carl Powers? That was ingenious -- putting the clostridium botulinum into Carl's meds, that was brilliant. That sort of genius at that young of an age, it's rare. Moriarty could've gone on the fast track to success. So something might have thrown him off-course, some big event that collided with his life and drove him to become the psychopath we all know. Perhaps the death of Moriarty's hypothetical loved one ignited Carl's bullying (such cruelty can definitely be learned at a young age), thus sparking Moriarty's want for vengeance, and then setting him on the path to perdition.

 

(But I'd rather avoid the conjunction fallacy and treat all these separate speculations as separate. Let's assume they're separate until further confirmation in S4)

[sfmpco]

I see Moriarty as more the mirror opposite of Mycroft than Sherlock.  A true psychopath is outwardly socially adept and charming.  Mycroft, although not terribly charming when with Sherlock, he his perfectly charming and adept with his peers in Buckingham Palace in ASIB.  Mycroft and Moriarty are both businessmen in their own way. 

 

For Moriarty to have such homicidal tendencies at such a young age, one has to say he's either schizophrenic or came from an abusive background where he never developed natural bonding skills as an infant/young child.  But it's impossible to say as this will never be a developed background story for them.

 

The only thing that is clear is that he responded to bullying with murder when he was young.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Hmmm, I have real trouble imagining a past life for Moriarty. Probably because he doesn't seem very real to me. He isn't a person so much as just a villain. Perhaps that will change when we learn more about him in series 4. But I do think he really has an antisocial (true "sociopathic") personality and is probably incapable of empathy or remorse. Which doesn't mean he couldn't have ever grieved about the loss of anyone.

 

The people I've known and would classify as some sort of sociopath are not murderers, they're merely self-centered to the point that they look at everything strictly from the point of view of how it affects them personally.  For example, if their neighbor breaks his leg, they don't feel sorry for the neighbor, they're angry because now the neighbor can't give them a ride to work.

 

So yes, Moriarty could have grieved for the loss of someone, but if so it's likely that he was actually grieving for the loss of whatever that person had been doing for him.

 

I see why you'd think that, but consider this: It usually takes time for somebody to become that sort of person. You remember the murder of Carl Powers? That was ingenious -- putting the clostridium botulinum into Carl's meds, that was brilliant. That sort of genius at that young of an age, it's rare. Moriarty could've gone on the fast track to success. So something might have thrown him off-course, some big event that collided with his life and drove him to become the psychopath we all know. Perhaps the death of Moriarty's hypothetical loved one ignited Carl's bullying (such cruelty can definitely be learned at a young age), thus sparking Moriarty's want for vengeance, and then setting him on the path to perdition.

 

(But I'd rather avoid the conjunction fallacy and treat all these separate speculations as separate. Let's assume they're separate until further confirmation in S4)

 

Just because young Moriarty was brilliant doesn't mean that he would have been successful in a career.  For that to happen, he would have had to want a career, and there's no indication that he ever did.  He's apparently good with computers, but I suspect he's more the type to invent computer viruses than to invent new useful software.  That's more compatible with the idea that he was a sociopath.

[Shadow Dweller]

I see why you'd think that, but consider this: It usually takes time for somebody to become that sort of person. You remember the murder of Carl Powers? That was ingenious -- putting the clostridium botulinum into Carl's meds, that was brilliant. That sort of genius at that young of an age, it's rare. Moriarty could've gone on the fast track to success. So something might have thrown him off-course, some big event that collided with his life and drove him to become the psychopath we all know. Perhaps the death of Moriarty's hypothetical loved one ignited Carl's bullying (such cruelty can definitely be learned at a young age), thus sparking Moriarty's want for vengeance, and then setting him on the path to perdition.

 

(But I'd rather avoid the conjunction fallacy and treat all these separate speculations as separate. Let's assume they're separate until further confirmation in S4)

Take a child with less stellar internal value about other people's life, add a schoolyard bully, mix with crime/murder story for inspiration then put a dash of internet time for research. The only question is, from where the boy get that toxin, considering that it is a controlled substance?

[J.P.]

He also could be born with a brain defect causing psychopathy, the most sourced mention lack of empathy as a genetically caused defect. You can find some good texts dealing with Sherlock's sociopathy that would also explain Jim's behaviour.

 

Want to watch little Moriarty? Watch We_Need_to_Talk_About_Kevin

[Shadow Dweller]

*grins* When in the topic of fictional 'zero empathy sufferer'..... Tom Marvolo Riddle; intelligent, smooth, charming, ambitious and utterly greedy.

 

"It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our (inborn) abilities." - Albus Dumbledore

 

Interesting conversation about the so called empathy: http://www.psychforums.com/narcissistic-personality/topic35555.html

[Carol the Dabbler]

The only question is, from where the boy get that toxin, considering that it is a controlled substance?

 

*grins* When in the topic of fictional 'zero empathy sufferer'..... Tom Marvolo Riddle; intelligent, smooth, charming, ambitious and utterly greedy.

I suspect that the personality description in your second post more or less answers the question in your first post!  I have known people like Tom -- intelligent, charming, and coldly manipulative.  Young Jim could have ingratiated himself with someone who worked in whatever sort of lab would have samples of the bacterium (much as adult Jim ingratiated himself with Molly) -- flattered the lab worker, impressed them with his (fake) enthusiasm for the subject, maybe wormed his way into an after-school job in the lab.

 

[Shadow Dweller]

Moriarty is not Tom Riddle, just see how is he in the series. Is he really convincing as a smooth operator as Jim from IT? More like shouting, "I am a fake!" with his obvious simpering. Intelligent? Maybe. Smooth and charming? Not at all even as an adult with more experience in acting than ten years old boy. He's incapable to camouflage his real self. Probably he also have a manic bipolar condition.

 

I want to see Moriarty at the process of wooing someone experienced with emotional manipulation. That will prove his mettle in that area and settle down rampant speculations with fact.

[sfmpco]

[SherlockedCAMPer]

A psychopath with manners.  Now that could be an interesting discussion for psychologists and psychiatrists.

[Arcadia]

[SherlockedCAMPer]

That's a good one Arcadia.

[Shadow Dweller]

Psycho(s) with manner survive while their uncouth brethren get weeded out early for angering the wrong people. Darwinisme at its finest ^^

[besleybean]

Social Darwinism!

[J.P.]

Moriarty is not Tom Riddle, just see how is he in the series. Is he really convincing as a smooth operator as Jim from IT? More like shouting, "I am a fake!" with his obvious simpering. Intelligent? Maybe. Smooth and charming? Not at all even as an adult with more experience in acting than ten years old boy. He's incapable to camouflage his real self. Probably he also have a manic bipolar condition.

 

I actually buy him. In the scene at Kitty's he almost convinced me.

 

Why do you think he could be bipolar?

[Shadow Dweller]

Some fans called this version of Moriarty, "sniveling, rat-like". To me he's not terrifying, his acts are hilarious. :p

 

To answer your question, that actually an altered homage to one of posts on this thread in the way I see it.

[SherlockedCAMPer]

Moriarty goes from calm to rage and back rather quickly as can happen with a manic running Bipolar.  I live with one so I've seen and heard it on enough occasions.  It is possible to have multiple mental health issues and depending on the overlap of symptoms, he could be insane as well as bipolar.  Maybe he has schizoaffective disorder with the bipolar (that's the person I live with).  That would explain the mood swings as well as the insanity.

[sittything]

Moriarty, in this version at least, reminds me of a deranged muppet.