Irene Adler

[Shadow Dweller]

 

Don't be sad. Irene fall in love with Sherlock, isn't she? A male, means you have a chance too :D

[Yusree]

I can stare this picture everyday for the rest of my life and i still miss her......please make her come back in the next season   

 

[Arcadia]

Personally, I never want to see her again (I don't trust her around my Sherlock! :P ) but for you, Yusree, I hope she shows up! :D

[Boton]

I had a whole response typed this morning, and then the system ate it.  I think the shortened version will be better anyway.

 

I believe Irene when she says she's gay, but I also think that sexuality is more fluid for her than it might be for some of the others.  For her, I tend to assume that she prefers women in sexual and romantic situations, and she clearly has chosen to have some sort of long-term relationship of sorts with Kate, but I also think she's unbothered by the fact that she enjoys the sexual frisson with Sherlock.  I think she just accepts that as part of her own sexual makeup, rather than assuming that Sherlock is an unexpected one-off.  

[T.o.b.y]

I had a whole response typed this morning, and then the system ate it.  I think the shortened version will be better anyway.

 

I believe Irene when she says she's gay, but I also think that sexuality is more fluid for her than it might be for some of the others.  For her, I tend to assume that she prefers women in sexual and romantic situations, and she clearly has chosen to have some sort of long-term relationship of sorts with Kate, but I also think she's unbothered by the fact that she enjoys the sexual frisson with Sherlock.  I think she just accepts that as part of her own sexual makeup, rather than assuming that Sherlock is an unexpected one-off.  

 

And we know that Sherlock was not the first man she had some kind of sexual connection with. Remember Mycroft telling how she had had an affair with both partners of one couple, and how she herself keeps mentioning all the guys she got information from because she knew what they liked.

 

I wonder what Irene really likes, independently of payment, be it monetary or in the form of power and knowledge, and I hope she gets it sometimes. This probably makes me terribly naive, but I remember Irene more for being fragile and unhappy than powerful and promiscuous.

 

[Boton]

 

 

 

I wonder what Irene really likes, independently of payment, be it monetary or in the form of power and knowledge, and I hope she gets it sometimes. This probably makes me terribly naive, but I remember Irene more for being fragile and unhappy than powerful and promiscuous.

 

 

 

This is only my overly-romanticized head canon based on nothing, but I always imagine Irene to be terribly vulnerable.  That's why she chose a career that allows her to maintain a very overt power position; she can't be emotionally or physically vulnerable in situations in which she is cast in the dominant role.

 

I think in Sherlock, she found someone she enjoys sparring with, intellectually and physically.  Maybe she saw a bit of what it was like to be with someone on more equal terms.  Whoever she winds up with, and for however long, I hope that's what she finds.

[T.o.b.y]

 

This is only my overly-romanticized head canon based on nothing, but I always imagine Irene to be terribly vulnerable.  That's why she chose a career that allows her to maintain a very overt power position; she can't be emotionally or physically vulnerable in situations in which she is cast in the dominant role.

 

I think in Sherlock, she found someone she enjoys sparring with, intellectually and physically.  Maybe she saw a bit of what it was like to be with someone on more equal terms.  Whoever she winds up with, and for however long, I hope that's what she finds.

 

Well, in my romantic little head canon she became Mrs Norton in this version as well, and I hope the other Mrs Norton is someone cool and stable, sort of like a female John...

 

 

[HeroinOrHeroine]

 

 

 

 

 

I wonder what Irene really likes, independently of payment, be it monetary or in the form of power and knowledge, and I hope she gets it sometimes. This probably makes me terribly naive, but I remember Irene more for being fragile and unhappy than powerful and promiscuous.

 

 

This is only my overly-romanticized head canon based on nothing, but I always imagine Irene to be terribly vulnerable. That's why she chose a career that allows her to maintain a very overt power position; she can't be emotionally or physically vulnerable in situations in which she is cast in the dominant role.

 

I think in Sherlock, she found someone she enjoys sparring with, intellectually and physically. Maybe she saw a bit of what it was like to be with someone on more equal terms. Whoever she winds up with, and for however long, I hope that's what she finds.

I completely agree. I see Irene as very vulnerable and a bit naive in her game-playing, especially in that she saw it all as a game to begin with.

[jadpdr]

Whatever the shortcomings of A Scandal in... , it is a story of mutual attraction! She enmeshes him in her toils in this version and in the original, in this one through the contents of her gadget, in the story through the accidental participation in her marriage. He keeps the infamous "camera phone" in Belgravia, he keeps the sovereign she gives him as a token of her thanks in Bohemia, which I find particularly moving in the Granada series, because the memory of her lies on his bedside table when he is asleep and on his person every waking moment. She teaches him to respect female intelligence in both cases! If he were the marrying kind, both the American opera singer and the modern businesswoman would have had very little trouble getting under his protective carapace/armour.

[Inge l-w]

And one can only dream of a construct with Irene's character, wit and beauty and Molly's empathy, clear steely resolve and emotional intelligence : the whole Sherlock/John thing in fan fiction would sink under its own weight as the loner would have found his other half, but this is Sherlock, what can we expect but misery and heartache for all concerned?

However, there's always a silver lining: Sherlock Holmes was Irene Adler's witness in her marriage to Mr Norton of the Inner Temple, so he was, in a sense, best man at a wedding, albeit by chance!

[sfmpco]

Here's a bit of Lara Pulver on Saturday Kitchen...

 

https://twitter.com/GypsyMusicalLDN/status/587714391736365057

[Carol the Dabbler]

She admitted she was gay, but that shouldn't be confused with her profession which deals with both men and women and doesn't involve sex.

 

" ... her profession ... doesn't involve sex" ? 

 

I tend to assume that she prefers women in sexual and romantic situations, and she clearly has chosen to have some sort of long-term relationship of sorts with Kate....

 

Well, in my romantic little head canon she became Mrs Norton in this version as well, and I hope the other Mrs Norton is someone cool and stable, sort of like a female John...

Kate seems like a decent sort -- maybe her last name is Norton? So they could end up as Irene Adler-Norton and Kate Norton-Adler?

[T.o.b.y]

 

She admitted she was gay, but that shouldn't be confused with her profession which deals with both men and women and doesn't involve sex.

 

" ... her profession ... doesn't involve sex" ? 

 

Well, actually, from what I've been told, a "domintrix" does not necessarily have intercourse with her clients. Who of course see her because the encounter excites them in some more or less sexual manner, but if you define sex as actually sleeping with someone, it could well be that Irene's job does not indeed involve that.

 

(Note: I misspelled Irene's profession on purpose, because the full word generated a 404 - forbidden error.)

 

 

[Boton]

 

 

 

 

 

Well, actually, from what I've been told, a "domintrix" does not necessarily have intercourse with her clients. Who of course see her because the encounter excites them in some more or less sexual manner, but if you define sex as actually sleeping with someone, it could well be that Irene's job does not indeed involve that.

 

(Note: I misspelled Irene's profession on purpose, because the full word generated a 404 - forbidden error.)

 

 

 

 

That's my understanding, too.  You have people who are turned on by participation in some sort of scene, and the professional dom creates that scene for them to enjoy.  Which is not to say that it can't or doesn't ever end in some form of intercourse, but it doesn't have to.  I prefer to think that our Irene draws the line at physically bringing on sexual satisfaction in her clients and sticks to the "head game" of creating a scene.

 

(There's a great bit in The Mayflower Madame, the autobiography of Sidney Biddle Barrows and her forray into running a high-end prostitution service, about a client who had a kink for pretending to get his hair cut.  It was odd and sweet at the same time.)

[Carol the Dabbler]

She admitted she was gay, but that shouldn't be confused with her profession which deals with both men and women and doesn't involve sex.

 

" ... her profession ... doesn't involve sex" ? 

 

Well, actually, from what I've been told, a "domintrix" does not necessarily have intercourse with her clients. Who of course see her because the encounter excites them in some more or less sexual manner, but if you define sex as actually sleeping with someone, it could well be that Irene's job does not indeed involve that.

 

(Note: I misspelled Irene's profession on purpose, because the full word generated a 404 - forbidden error.)

 

If the definition of "sex" were strictly limited to intercourse, the world would be a far less sexy place!

 

And thanks for the tip regarding the D-word.  I'll go quote you on the funny-error thread.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don't have exact quote, something along this line:

when Irene accused John of being jealous, he said,"I'm not gay!"

She said,"I am. Look at us both."

 

I didn't get this the first and second viewing, only after that made the connection of the real meaning that John and Irene are supposed to be attracted to women, but here they are both attracted to Sherlock. It doesn't always mean in sexual way, but they are attracted to him.

 

However, I would say that despite Irene supposed intelligence, she is much more a clot (love this word) compared to John.

Ffs, John managed to get Sherlock to ask him for dinner on the first episode!

[Van Buren Supernova]

Sherlocks's feeling to Irene, is a real sentiment.

I don't think it's at the level of love, but it's serious sentiment.

 

He keeps her phone (he is Sherlock! He only hoards body parts!), and he was certainly very very hurt (BC'S eyes) when he was sitting there while Irene went on and on about how she played him and most when she tried to deny her sentiment at the end of SIB.

 

I could almost see his heartbreak when he said,"And this is just losing.."

[Arcadia]

I don't have exact quote, something along this line:

when Irene accused John of being jealous, he said,"I'm not gay!"

She said,"I am. Look at us both."

 

I didn't get this the first and second viewing, only after that made the connection of the real meaning that John and Irene are supposed to be attracted to women, but here they are both attracted to Sherlock. It doesn't always mean in sexual way, but they are attracted to him.

 

However, I would say that despite Irene supposed intelligence, she is much more a clot (love this word) compared to John.

Ffs, John managed to get Sherlock to ask him for dinner on the first episode!

You're better than me ... I never did get it, until someone here on the forum explained it to me!

 

I'm not sure where Irene falls on the intelligence scale, but I think what Sherlock liked most about her was: she was never boring. He couldn't anticipate what she would do next, and he loved that. John's pretty predictable; I think Sherlock loves him for his loyalty and courage etc etc, but I don't think he finds John particularly "stimulating". But I do think he's learning to appreciate people for qualities other than being exciting. Good boy.

[Boton]

Hey, resurrecting this thread to pose a question I'm sort of bringing over from lots of other threads.

 

We periodically get into a debate about how you would modernize ACD Irene's character. Opera singers and performers of all sorts were seen as less than respectable in the Victorian era, and you have to somehow get the idea across that Holmes is at minimum intrigued by someone who is not quite socially acceptable. 

 

Then we always seem to debate whether making her a dominatrix is going too far or not.

 

So what do you guys think? If you were advising Moftiss when they wrote SiB, how would you modernize Irene so as to maintain that sense of social unacceptability? Would you keep the dominatrix angle, or would you make her something else? (I'll withhold my opinion until some of you have weighed in, because I don't know I feel that strongly about my stance.)

[Artemis]

I guess I always felt more like Holmes admired Irene in spite of the respectability of her profession, rather than because of.  Meaning, its repute didn't really register as something to be judgemental about; such things don't matter to him.  I think of him as someone who judges people by their character, not their profession or other external factors.  That's part of what sets him above the crowd and ahead of his time.

 

(To expound on that, Holmes in my view is a true nonconformist and independent mind: Someone who dis/likes whatever they dis/like, regardless of its popularity, conventionality, or public favor; it doesn't even factor in.  Liking something because  it's nonconformist is often just another brand of conformity mistaken as a sign of individualism.  And even if that doesn't apply to Holmes here, I feel that the idea diminishes him.)

I'm not sure what profession I would have given modern-day Irene, were I writing it.  There aren't so many "socially unacceptable" choices, in this day and age.  But I do feel a little like, by making her a dominatrix, they almost made her a more  conventional female character rather than an unconventional one.

 

 

[Hikari]

I guess I always felt more like Holmes admired Irene in spite of  her profession, rather than because of.  Meaning, it didn't really register as something to be judgemental about; such things don't matter to him.  I think of him as someone who judges people by their character, not their profession or other external factors.  That's partly what sets him above the crowd and ahead of his time.

 

I'm not sure what profession I would have given modern-day Irene, were I writing it.  There aren't so many "socially unacceptable" choices, in this day and age.  But I do feel a little like, by making her a dominatrix, they almost made her a more  conventional female character rather than an unconventional one.

 

Interesting take, Artemis, in your last line.  I agree that by making this Irene entirely about her sexuality, both in her professional and private lives, Mofftiss succeeded in objectifying her more than liberating her.  What can this Irene do besides be sexy and conniving, with S-E-X at the forefront, always?

 

Re. your first paragraph, I think SH is intrigued by Adler in spite of her profession, yes . . the modern version.  Though Benedict does utter the devastating line:  "You cater to the whims of the pathetic and take your clothes off to make an impression."  He's saying that to wound her, and it doesn't seem free of judgment at that moment.  But as always, with Sherlock Holmes in any era, he does not judge people according to the standards of society, which he flouts himself with regularity . . but he does judge people, at times harshly, according to his own personal set of standards.  Those are both more tolerant than society's in many ways--how many times did he decide, carte blanche, to let wrongdoers go without involving Scotland Yard because he deemed it a better outcome for the individual?  He can also be a good deal less tolerant than society-at-large about some things . . the universal obsession with sex being one of those touchy points.  That's why this Adler is not an entirely successful adaptation as a professional sex worker, albeit an artisan in her field, because it's the one area of human existence that stymies Sherlock Holmes and makes him very uncomfortable or at the least, annoyed by the amount of time people waste on its pursuit.  This Adler embodies in her person all the dangerous pitfalls that Sex can bring--and that's why the Holmes boys stay far away from it.

 

The original Adler, by contrast, was by dint of her profession also not a completely socially acceptable figure . . but she served the Muse of Music and was an accomplished and charismatic musician.  What is the one thing which Sherlock Holmes loves quite nearly as much as he loves the Science of Deduction?  It's not sex, that's for sure.  It's music.  I can't help believing that Irene's draw for him is at least *partially* due to her accomplishments in music, a pursuit so near and dear to his own heart.  She'd been feted all over the world for them.  The case which involves her in SH's orbit does not concern her profession in any central way . . but she would never have crossed his radar or gotten into the predicament she did without being an internationally-famous celebrity.  The King of Bohemia would never have compromised himself with a mere chambermaid or prostitute and if he did, who would care about her?

 

************

 

Boton, this part's for you too--

As for Adler's 'modern' profession, if not dominatrix? . . . I think I would select perhaps 'controversial Internet blogger' or investigative journalist.  She'd still have her hands on the secrets of the rich and powerful, and maybe even governments, without selling her sexual services to get them.  Either that or spy.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I don't have time to weigh in right now -- but how the heck were you able to say "dominatrix" without being being hijacked by the forum censoring software?  Hmm, dominatrix, dominatrix, dominatrix.  Wow, how times have changed!

[Boton]

 

 

 

Boton, this part's for you too--

As for Adler's 'modern' profession, if not dominatrix? . . . I think I would select perhaps 'controversial Internet blogger' or investigative journalist.  She'd still have her hands on the secrets of the rich and powerful, and maybe even governments, without selling her sexual services to get them.  Either that or spy.

 

 

Yeah, that would work for me. Although, since they have John as a blogger and eventually used CAM as a media mogul, maybe they thought they had the journalism side covered. 

 

I don't have time to weigh in right now -- but how the heck were you able to say "dominatrix" without being being hijacked by the forum censoring software?  Hmm, dominatrix, dominatrix, dominatrix.  Wow, how times have changed!

 

Yeah, come to think of it, how did that happen?  I've had so many posts bounce back on me because of using a banned word.  Wow.

 

Anyway, I wonder if Irene would have worked as well/better if she had been some sort of controversial artist? It would have been a fine line - nothing overtly sexual, scatalogical, or relgious - but maybe someone who did art criticizing politicians or something like that. Her work could be featured in respected galleries and attract polite society, just like the original opera singers did, but she could make an awful lot of enemies that way. You would also have the option then of having her do a work that got a little too close to the truth of some sort of back room deal that would create a scandal, and that's why she needs protection.

[Hikari]

 

 

 

 

Boton, this part's for you too--

As for Adler's 'modern' profession, if not dominatrix? . . . I think I would select perhaps 'controversial Internet blogger' or investigative journalist.  She'd still have her hands on the secrets of the rich and powerful, and maybe even governments, without selling her sexual services to get them.  Either that or spy.

 

 

Yeah, that would work for me. Although, since they have John as a blogger and eventually used CAM as a media mogul, maybe they thought they had the journalism side covered. 

 

I don't have time to weigh in right now -- but how the heck were you able to say "dominatrix" without being being hijacked by the forum censoring software?  Hmm, dominatrix, dominatrix, dominatrix.  Wow, how times have changed!

 

Yeah, come to think of it, how did that happen?  I've had so many posts bounce back on me because of using a banned word.  Wow.

 

Anyway, I wonder if Irene would have worked as well/better if she had been some sort of controversial artist? It would have been a fine line - nothing overtly sexual, scatalogical, or relgious - but maybe someone who did art criticizing politicians or something like that. Her work could be featured in respected galleries and attract polite society, just like the original opera singers did, but she could make an awful lot of enemies that way. You would also have the option then of having her do a work that got a little too close to the truth of some sort of back room deal that would create a scandal, and that's why she needs protection.

 

 

Boton,

 

Yes, I had considered avante garde artist of some kind, too.  Or perhaps 'angry feminist stand-up comic'.  Something that would be really polarizing.  They did sort of a take on Julian Assange with CAM--a female version of him was what I was thinking at first, or a whistleblower like Edward Snowdon.  Or an anti-establishment political activist with an agenda threatening to the status quo.  I sort of like the idea of Adler as a junior PM with some dirt on her powerful colleagues.  It's easy to see how someone in the line of work they eventually chose for her would be privy to sensitive secrets spilled (pun intentional) by the highly-placed power brokers who were her clients. This Adler is a classic Honeytrap/Mata Hari.  Which, if she's spying for a foreign power, would make sense.  Where it falls apart is the "why"-- there's no way to paint her motives as anything other than self-interest and pecuniary gain.  She's a blackmailer, and though she's playing a very dangerous game, she enjoys the danger.  The original Adler was blackmailing one person for self-protective purposes also, but she lived quite modestly for an internationally-famous diva and was not holding on to her photograph for money or thrills, but because she is justifiably afraid for her personal safety if she reveals to a certain party where that photo is.  All she truly wants is to be left alone to live a peaceful life out of the limelight and marry the man that she loves.  This is not the kind of 'post-retirement' life the modern Adler has as a goal.  She enjoys misbehavior and being the center of controversy just a tad too much.  The original Adler's character was deemed irreproachable by Sherlock Holmes, and that's why she had his regard for the rest of his days.  Modern Sherlock enjoys the Woman's sporadic flirty texts messages, but he'd never go so far as to trust her. 

 

[Hikari]

I don't have time to weigh in right now -- but how the heck were you able to say "dominatrix" without being being hijacked by the forum censoring software?  Hmm, dominatrix, dominatrix, dominatrix.  Wow, how times have changed!

 

Hmm.  I used it without a thought because I have seen other people using it, several times.  It's kind of hard to discuss BBC Adler without reference to that word.  I've never been bounced for using 'prostitute', and that seems worse.

 

Just to be on the safe side, when writing 'taking the p!$$' I take precautions.    Never can tell about the sensitivities of software.    :)