Sherlock's Heart

[Shadow Dweller]

How can we contact the Doctor? We need the Tardis to enter that particular universe and make our dastardly plan into reality. :D

[J.P.]

Yesss, one of those lost chances that will haunt me forever. Still, Mark Gatis is NOT Mycroft. :P

[sittything]

Yesss, one of those lost chances that will haunt me forever. Still, Mark Gatis is NOT Mycroft. :P

 

My mom and I were watching some of the special features on the disc after watching the pilot Saturday, and Gatiss is sooo nothing like Mycroft.  I don't even see a hint of Mycroft in Gatiss when he talks, whereas when BC was talking I could see/hear Sherlock somewhat (maybe it was the hair and clothes he was wearing?  I think he may have still been in the coat in the one piece).

[Van Buren Supernova]

Oh, and I would really LOVE to see someone giving Mycroft a hug, along with a smack on the cheek. I volunteer, just to see the reaction.

That incident you think that may just happen - you were mistaken. If you ever mention doing that, in this room, in this context, I guarantee you. On behalf of British Security Service - that material will be found on your computer hard drives resulting in your immediate inability to log in to your favorite forum. Don't reply, just look frighten and scuttle.

[Boton]

I wonder what Mycroft would make of the fact that I have a very persistent fantasy of doing a slow foxtrot with him.  Not romantically, just because I think Mycroft would be a heck of a lead.   :D

[Van Buren Supernova]

I wonder what Mycroft would make of the fact that I have a very persistent fantasy of doing a slow foxtrot with him.  Not romantically, just because I think Mycroft would be a heck of a lead.   :D

 

You know what?

Mycroft approves.

Because all Holmes love dancing.

[Experimental]

 

whereas when BC was talking I could see/hear Sherlock somewhat (maybe it was the hair and clothes he was wearing?  I think he may have still been in the coat in the one piece - sittything

I don't think so. I full-heartedly believe SHerlock and Ben are not the same physical person. I do. 

Benedict is NOTHING like Sherlock, so much so I had a bit of a shock.  I mean, you assume he must be more like Sherlock than the average person, say me or you, because he must know his mind so intimately. But noooooope. They are like polar opposites, Ben is so sentimental, describing one of the major differences between him and Sherlock is him having a family (where I face-palmed and said "dear lord, he is sentimental") He's outspokenly romantic (apparently he has this head cannon where Sherlock and Irene "had a night". I beg your pardon, sir?) He's unbelievably caring to the point it makes me sick (no offense to him, I just dislike perfect people, my problem, not his). I didn't realise what he meant when he described himself as more "cuddly" than Sherlock, but now I do. But I guess that makes sense, seeing that he likes to show the vulnerability in the "thinkers" he plays a lot. And underneath Sherlock's exterior, there is Ben, but it always comes across in high contrast to how Sherlock usually acts and only in tiny tid-bits and usually gets contradicted later. I think this is just one more reason I have to admit how fragile this "sociopath" construct of Sherlock's really is.. severe short comings.. indeed.

 

 Tsk tsk, don't try to openly say that an ISFJ's assumption of themselves is wrong, they will rebel quietly and you will look like a berk for attacking one of the most gentlest people exist (at least that what my bestie will do)  -Shadow Dweller

 

 Don't I know it. Say one thing wrong and they'll resent you for a month. (It's so cute!) I think I could benefit from censorship. 

[sittything]

Oh, no, no, no... you misunderstand me or maybe I worded it poorly.  I just meant that in that specific instance (in that interview/special feature/whatever) he still looked/sounded like Sherlock.  The hair, I literally think he may have been wearing THE coat...  In other stuff, sans curly-lock and the Belstaff, BC resembles Sherlock not at all.  Not in appearance, mannerisms, or personality.  Whereas Gatiss was wearing normal clothes, I think, and was all bubbly and excited as he was talking, waving his hands around.  That was more my point, b/c I rarely see Gatiss outside of his role as Mycroft, so it was a little jarring/strange to see how unlike Mycroft he is.  I didn't expect Gatiss to be so animated.  BC was rather calm and sedated as he was talking (plus costume... I think... and hair) so in that moment I could still see the resemblance.  But I'd agree with you that yes, normally BC and Sherlock are nothing alike.

[Experimental]

lol no worries. It's an opinion really, of how much overlap you see. If you did think they were alike, even tho you don't, that would be totally valid. And I think it's normal to see some resemblance in some instances but I really can't. In any. Mycroft and Gatiss seem a little more alike to me, and I do think at least those two are the same person, but you know, it's all arbitrary. It's also cool seeing Gatiss in Mycroft, and thinking of Mycroft as not only the british government, a mastermind pulling strings, but also 'god' in a sense as both co-creator and actor.

[Shadow Dweller]

@Experimental: Your ISFJ seems like a very volatile mess. It make me treasure my friend more, she's not that easily bothered by other people's opinion at this point of life. Good, because pleasantville is a Pipedream.

[Experimental]

Haha they weren't my ISFJ. Chance encounter- and my only one irl. Annnd they never spoke to me again, but I can't blame them. When I say "one thing wrong".. probably an underestimation. Lovely friend, yours tho. I digress.

My thoughts on Sherlocks heart.. If you were to ask me, I'd say he doesn't have one. He has an external apparatus that follows him around hooked up by handcuff called John.   

Alternative question to continue the topic.. what can you deduce about Sherlock's heart from other scenes? Or.. which scenes do you think are the most telling? 

[sittything]

Sherlock is fiercely protective of those he cares for/loves, e.g. the American who fell out a window a few times for harming Mrs. Hudson.

 

ETA:  I went for the low-hanging fruit there... lol  ;)

[Arcadia]

Shooting CAM is the most telling, I think.

[J.P.]

Roof scene (your friends will die), but - it could be staged for Jim and his snipers.

 

Then: the padded cell. Nobody was watching that. It was all about Sherlock and... Sherlock.

[T.o.b.y]

 

Alternative question to continue the topic.. what can you deduce about Sherlock's heart from other scenes? Or.. which scenes do you think are the most telling? 

 

The most telling in the sense that they indicate he does indeed have a heart, i.e. feelings, are, in my opinion:

 

1.) The pool. (Still and always my favorite scene and my favorite bit is where Sherlock and Moriarty discuss this very topic)

2.) "Sorry about dinner". The way Sherlock takes Irene apart at the end I think shows that he did have feelings for her, although the exact nature of those remains somewhat unclear. But she managed to hurt him, so she must have touched him in some way.

3.) The nervous breakdown in The Hounds of Baskerville. Sherlock had nothing to gain by that, so it's probably genuine. Also the apology to John in the graveyard afterwards is the only one of his, by this time several, apologies to his friend that strikes me as really sincere.

4.) The scene in The Reichenbach Fall where Sherlock goes to Molly and asks her if she would still want to help him if he wasn't who she thought he was. (That is probably my second or maybe third favorite scene in the whole series. At least it's among my favorites).

5.) Not the rooftop scene. That's an act from beginning to end and rather proves the contrary, namely how heartless Sherlock can be.

6.) I am unsure about the scene on the train in The Empty Hearse where Sherlock gets John to say he forgives him. I tend to see it as rooftop No 2, but the motivation behind it, the need to hear John say those words and be friends again, does speak of a man with a heart.

7.) Basically all of The Sign of Three. There are so many moments in that episode where Sherlock either shows feeling when he is alone or where he has no obvious manipulative goal. It shows him at his most human and vulnerable. He's a fish out of water for most of those 90 min, and it really shows the price you pay for being extraordinary.

8.) The mind palace sequence in His Last Vow. Most of it is Sherlock trying to be rational and save himself with reason, but in the end he survives by just willpower - and love. As corny as it sounds, that's what it basically boils down to. (And to be honest, it's another of those moments where I find Sherlock extremely easy to identify with, because I've have moments where I've been blue and wished I could just die and then I began to think about it and then I started to imagine how my loved ones would react if I killed myself and that ended the idea really fast. It's a completely believable motivation for staying alive, the need to be there for and protect those one cares about.)

 

Sherlock most certainly has a heart. But he also has a shockingly effective talent for ignoring it. Look at all he did to John. I could never, ever treat my best friend that way. He can propose marriage to a woman just to break into her boss's office, and he can kill a man in cold blood if need be. I wouldn't trust him further than I can spit. But I still think he's a wonderful character...

[Shadow Dweller]

This is prompted by Mycroft's question in "Scandal":

 

My brother has the brain of a scientist or a philosopher, yet he elects to be a detective. What might we deduce about his heart?

Neither he nor John have an answer to that question, but what do you think? Why did Steven Moffat insert that line into the episode if he wasn't going to answer it?

 

This and revelation about what Sherlock want to be as a child speak about taste for chaos, selfishness, greed, and romantic nature. Consider the discrepancies between the sanitized and romanticized tale of a pirate's life and what actually happened in history, past and present. Add Sherlock's penchant for searching for the truth. Is it make sense if a boy who hunger for adventure to not learn everything in reach about a subject that he's passionate in? Unless he used to live in an area without access to history books. To me, John's acceptance to the revelation without even a surprise tells more about the good Doctor and his view about Sherlock. It is a test, John, and you have failed.

[Arcadia]

Oh, I imagine when Sherlock found out what pirates were really like is when he stopped wanting to be one. ;)

[Shadow Dweller]

Oh, I imagine when Sherlock found out what pirates were really like is when he stopped wanting to be one. ;)

Or, it is only a story Mycroft concocted especially for that confrontation with John, lol. The dragon-slayer is more inline with the Sherlock that we knew.

[Arcadia]

Ooooh, you DO have a suspicious streak! :D Yeah, I have to concede that to you, Mycroft's not particularly, um .... straightforward ....

[Shadow Dweller]

:p I would like to throw over-ripe tomatoes to you for the jibe but since only strawberries available here then you can have them. Just make sure you don't eat too much.

[Arcadia]

Oh good, I don't like tomatoes (especially over-ripe ones!) but I love strawberries. How can you have too many?

[Shadow Dweller]

Oh good, I don't like tomatoes (especially over-ripe ones!) but I love strawberries. How can you have too many?

A client own strawberry farm, he sent enough to overflown both of my fridges.

[BlackButterfly]

I think Sherlocks wish to be a pirate is more about his wish to not be confined by rules , but make his own , and non confirming to a society of idiots..and to cause as much mischief@mayhem as possible for the people in charge.Which is also a bit of a rebellion against Mycroft who probably wanted to take over the world , thus making the rules.

Sherlocks - always been so resentful - thats probably because Mycroft was -the clever one -and his -always being right -and no doubt pointing out Sherlocks mistakes.....-it was the sofa Sherlock-...would obviously become very annoying over time.

 

I wonder how difficult it was for Mycroft to say ' I don't know ' about Sherlocks heart and how much Mycroft hates that , and if any of the things that have happened have been...Mycrofts experiments to find the answer.

 

As for the comments at Sherlock being a romantic thats rather amusing and so true in the classical swashbuckling adventure style way he lives and look at his unrealistic but romantic -it'll be just like old times -expectations and his ' just the two of us against the world....' remarks to John on his return. Perhaps he should have popped out of a cake.

[Arcadia]

I think Sherlocks wish to be a pirate is more about his wish to not be confined by rules , but make his own , and non confirming to a society of idiots..and to cause as much mischief@mayhem as possible for the people in charge.Which is also a bit of a rebellion against Mycroft who probably wanted to take over the world , thus making the rules.

Sherlocks - always been so resentful - thats probably because Mycroft was -the clever one -and his -always being right -and no doubt pointing out Sherlocks mistakes.....-it was the sofa Sherlock-...would obviously become very annoying over time.

 

I wonder how difficult it was for Mycroft to say ' I don't know ' about Sherlocks heart and how much Mycroft hates that , and if any of the things that have happened have been...Mycrofts experiments to find the answer.

 

As for the comments at Sherlock being a romantic thats rather amusing and so true in the classical swashbuckling adventure style way he lives and look at his unrealistic but romantic -it'll be just like old times -expectations and his ' just the two of us against the world....' remarks to John on his return. Perhaps he should have popped out of a cake.

 

I rather love this.

 

[Van Buren Supernova]

 

Perhaps he should have popped out of a cake.

 

I rather love this.

 

I further deduce that it should be gigantic strawberry cheesecake.

First, there are abundant strawberry available.

Second, Sherlock would be so bored waiting inside the cake he would start shooting.