Episode 1.2, "The Blind Banker"

[Arcadia]

Goody, a new question! You're probably right, it's been discussed, but who cares.

 

I know what my first reaction to John's remark was ... he didn't want to be looked down on as just a tag-a-long friend, a nobody; he wanted to assert that he was an "equal partner" in Sherlock's business.

 

However, once I discovered the "Johnlock" theories, I thought maybe it meant John was already tired of people assuming he and Sherlock were a "couple", and said "colleague" to make it clear that they were not romantically linked.

 

I also seem to remember other people saying it was because John still wasn't sure if he wanted to be a "friend" of that oddball Sherlock, and that's why he corrected it to "colleague." A lot of people interpret Sherlock's expression after John says that as being hurt by John's rejection, so that theory would make the most sense in that case.

 

It also occurs to me; that's how Sherlock introduced him to Donovan, as a "colleague". So maybe John was just following his lead.

 

Hey, we're Sherlockians ... no easy answers around here! :D

 

Oh, and John probably wouldn't have understood by then, that he is undermining Sherlock by correcting him. I don't think they were supposed to know each other that well yet.

[aphrodite32101]

Totally agree

 

 

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[T.o.b.y]

However, once I discovered the "Johnlock" theories, I thought maybe it meant John was already tired of people assuming he and Sherlock were a "couple", and said "colleague" to make it clear that they were not romantically linked.

n, that he is undermining Sherlock by correcting him. I don't think they were supposed to know each other that well yet.

 

The first time I saw the episode, that's how I understood that scene. John didn't want anybody getting the wrong ideas, especially not Sebastian, who comes across as exactly the kind of person whom you do not want to form an opinion on your private life (i.e. an a-hole).

 

[Pseudonym]

That's really interesting because the idea of John being concerned Sebastian would think they were together hadn't even occurred to me. 

 

Kind of linked, in relation to how well they know each other, how long do you think they are meant to have been living together at this point? They are already getting overdue bill letters so must be more than a month surely? Not that I imagine Sherlock would be someone you could get to know quickly even if you were living with him. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Not sure that had ever occurred to me either.  But yeah, "This is my friend" can definitely have that meaning, especially among people who feel they're too old to keep saying "boyfriend" or "girlfriend."

 

[Arcadia]

That's really interesting because the idea of John being concerned Sebastian would think they were together hadn't even occurred to me. 

 

Kind of linked, in relation to how well they know each other, how long do you think they are meant to have been living together at this point? They are already getting overdue bill letters so must be more than a month surely? Not that I imagine Sherlock would be someone you could get to know quickly even if you were living with him.

 

I've wondered about that as well ... since John doesn't have a job yet, I've always figured it couldn't be too terribly long. Also he's surprised by the kind of fee Sherlock is offered for the work, so that implies to me that they haven't been on that many cases together yet.

 

But the bills confuse me too. Although come to think of it ... I suppose the bills aren't overdue, necessarily, just ... due. So at a guess, I'd say they'd been in Baker Street more than a few weeks, but less than a few months. (How's that for being specific! :D )

[Pseudonym]

The bills definitely have overdue stamped on them (just checked it on Netflix, sad I know, lol). I suppose it's possible they are John's from his previous address. 

I agree it doesn't seem like they've worked together much yet, so the more than a few weeks but less that a few months seems about right

[Arcadia]

Ah ha, good catch. I never notice details like that. :(

[Carol the Dabbler]

 ... since John doesn't have a job yet, I've always figured it couldn't be too terribly long. Also he's surprised by the kind of fee Sherlock is offered for the work, so that implies to me that they haven't been on that many cases together yet.

 

Not necessarily.  John has his army pension, after all, so maybe he was assuming that (with a roommate) he'd be able to live on just that (but then the bills started piling up).  And Sebastian is a banker, so the fee he offered may well be far higher than Sherlock's usual -- in which case John's surprise would indicate that they'd been on enough cases already to give him an idea of what was typical.

[Pseudonym]

Yes, I get the impression that the fee offered is definitely out of the norm. 

 

This is off topic but I've always wondered why Sherlock even needs a flatmate. He clearly comes from a well to do family and doesn't seem remotely interested in getting paid for his work which makes me think he doesn't actually need a flatmate for monetary reasons at all. However he also doesn't seem like someone who would want a flatmate just for the company. 

 

The other thing I wonder about is where he was living before. I saw a theory somewhere that he had just come out of rehab, but I don't know if I believe that. If that were true though perhaps he needs a flatmate as a kind of distraction to try to keep him from the temptation of relapsing...?

[Van Buren Supernova]

I don't see Sherlock as someone who cares about counting those the financial stuff or being paid, or using family's money. Because of these, he might have difficulty paying for flat by himself. Since he wants to continue not caring for those, flatmate is probably one of the feasible solutions.

Anyway, he doesn't need to put a lot o effort to get along with a flatmate. He would be the alpha, whoever can't stand him can go. After all, he needs a stand-in every time Mrs.Hudson takes his skull.

[Pseudonym]

Question - the bloke who works with Soo Lin, can't remember his name, if you were working with him would you find him creepy? I don't see him as creepy in the episode since he is so unassuming, but really his actions are verging on the stalkerish. 

 

1. When he asks Soo Lin out she says 'please stop asking' leading me to think he's asked her before, and despite being turned down keeps trying. 

2. When she quits, without warning, he looks up her address and turned up uninvited and unannounced on the doorstep of her flat. 

3. When Sherlock and John turn up asking questions he can't wait to talk about Soo Lin, like he's just dying to discuss her with someone. 

 

I'm sure there was something else I'm forgetting. Anyway, is he meant to be creepy, even though he's not presented as such? Is it just a case of man-writing that they don't realise how creepy it would be for a colleague to look up your address and turn up on your doorstep when you quit?

[Arcadia]

The latter, I suspect. At any rate, I found him rather sweet and not at all creepy ... but it wasn't me he was interested in. I might feel a bit creeped if someone did that to me. It would depend on the guy, probably.

[Pseudonym]

At my old job I had a guy following me about, lurking, and if he'd turned up at my doorstep after I left I would have freaked. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Andy.

 

My take is that he's genuinely concerned about her when she disappears, considering that he knows the reason she gave doesn't hold water.  I didn't get the feeling that he'd ever tried to track her before, he just let her know he was interested.  (And for all we know, he's only asked her maybe three times.)  I found him sweet and cute, and I suspect that Soo Lin might have also, under "normal" circumstances.  In fact, maybe she did like him, but knew that she was in danger and didn't want to endanger him by involving him in her life.

[sherlockandjohn]

I too found the guy sweet, and I think he genuinely cared about Soo Lin - that's why he showed up on her doorstep; he was concerned.

 

So... second night of my Sherlock rewatch - at this rate I will have seen all the episodes again within 13 days :( Oh, well (imagine me saying that like Moriarty).

 

This episode seems to have a purpose in showing that Sherlock, while brilliant, sometimes can't see what's staring him right in the face. I can think of the following examples:

- Sherlock and John bump into each other in Chinatown, and Sherlock immediately starts rambling, not bothering to check with John. It turns out that John knows something Sherlock doesn't.

- When the graffiti has been painted over, Sherlock is busy trying to get John to maximise his visual memory - very funny, by the way Meanwhile, John has taken a photo (smart move).

- Sarah, not Sherlock, first discovers that Soo Lin had begun to decifer the code. I love how shocked Sherlock is when she points him to it.

[Redbeard]

This must have been discussed earlier (I scanned quite a few of the pages, but with over 20 I might have missed it), but I was wondering what people's opinions were on John correcting Sherlock referring to him a friend by saying he's a colleague. Even if this is fairly early in their relationship it seems a bit harsh, especially when Sherlock seems to be saying friend almost defiantly, as if to point out to Sebastian that he can make friends, and then is completely undermined by John correcting him. Even at this stage John must feel that he and Sherlock are more friends than colleagues, they do live together after all. I really hate Sebastian's smug smile that Sherlock would try to pass off a colleague as a friend, like he is so alien he has no idea of the difference. 

So what does everyone think? Is there a reason behind this I'm missing? Why does John do it?

 

I wondered that too, it just seems so unnecessary.  But I thought of that scene when I watched Hounds of Baskerville when Sherlock says "I don't have friends".  Who can blame him for feeling that way when the last time he casually assumed he did, he was publicly corrected.  I don't know what the writers intent was there but when I watch that scene John comes off as a real jackass.  And then he has the nerve to get kind of insulted that Sherlock doesn't consider him a friend in HOB.  You made the bed now lie in it, buddy.  LOL 

[Pseudonym]

Yes! Exactly! I didn't think to tie in the HOB scene, but that's an excellent point. 

[Carol the Dabbler]

I must be the only person here who doesn't think John is intentionally putting Sherlock in an awkward position.

 

I think when he says "colleague," it's a response to the mockery in Sebastian's voice when he says "friend?" I don't know exactly how John interprets that tone -- possibly as "why are you bringing a friend along on a business trip?" or as "ooh, is he your BOYfriend?" -- but the tone is clearly (to me, at least) mocking Sherlock and John. So John's response seems like an attempt to deflect the mockery by stressing the business aspect of their relationship. Which is not to say that Sherlock doesn't interpret it the way the rest of you do.

 

Also, I can't help but think it's an echo of Jeremy Brett's Holmes always introducing Watson as "my friend and colleague."

[Carol the Dabbler]

I just checked Ariane DeVere's transcript to make sure I wasn't misremembering anything. She points out that as Sebastian turns away, John purses his lips, perhaps realizing that he's put Sherlock in an awkward position.

 

This seems probable to me, considering his similar reaction (in Great Game) to Lestrade teasing Sherlock about what John had written in his blog -- presumably kicking himself for not stopping to think that an internet blog isn't a private diary. Perhaps Captain Watson, fresh from the war in Afghanistan, isn't yet much better attuned to civilian society than Sherlock is.

[Pseudonym]

I suppose whatever John or Sherlock said Seb would use it as a excuse to be smug and try to belittle him. Do you think Sherlock only took that job because John needed money? I would have thought he'd have told Seb to go and screw himself, I wouldn't have helped him, especially if he's not even going to be nice now.

[Arcadia]

I hadn't thought about money being the motivation for Sherlock, but looking back on it, he frequently does things in a roundabout way, doesn't he? I suppose it's possible that he was being considerate enough to not put John on the spot about money.

 

However, I mostly just assume Sherlock takes jobs because there's something about them he finds interesting. Maybe the fact that it was Seb contacting him was enough in itself to intrigue him ... after all, surely the bank has security people that already looked into it and were baffled.

 

Or maybe Seb is someone he wanted to show off for, to prove he really was as brilliant as he said he was back in school. Or maybe Sherlock was just honoring old school ties? Some people are remarkably loyal to their alma maters (although it's hard for me to imagine Sherlock being one of those. )

[Artemis]

This must have been discussed earlier (I scanned quite a few of the pages, but with over 20 I might have missed it), but I was wondering what people's opinions were on John correcting Sherlock referring to him a friend by saying he's a colleague. Even if this is fairly early in their relationship it seems a bit harsh, especially when Sherlock seems to be saying friend almost defiantly, as if to point out to Sebastian that he can make friends, and then is completely undermined by John correcting him. Even at this stage John must feel that he and Sherlock are more friends than colleagues, they do live together after all. I really hate Sebastian's smug smile that Sherlock would try to pass off a colleague as a friend, like he is so alien he has no idea of the difference. 

So what does everyone think? Is there a reason behind this I'm missing? Why does John do it?

 

I saw an interesting post about this on tumblr the other day, if anyone cares to have a read.

 

https://mid0nz.tumblr.com/post/88663182214/moi3489-mildredandbobbin-mid0nz-john-is

 

 

[Arcadia]

Thanks, Artemis! I love those. As much as I think TBB is one of their weakest episodes, it fairly drips with lovely little character moments like that.

[Carol the Dabbler]

... I was wondering what people's opinions were on John correcting Sherlock referring to him a friend by saying he's a colleague.

 

I saw an interesting post about this on tumblr the other day, if anyone cares to have a read.

 

https://mid0nz.tumblr.com/post/88663182214/moi3489-mildredandbobbin-mid0nz-john-is

 

Thanks, Artemis!  That's a very carefully thought-out piece.  I particularly like this part:

 

 

 

What I love about the “Friend” “Colleague” moment is that they are both using the appellation they are proud of, that they think is better, but in the process both inadvertently offend the other.

 

John is feeling a bit worthless - he has no job, has just had to ask Sherlock for money, Sherlock has already said the Work is the most important thing. Now he’s tagging along with Sherlock to see a Very Important Business type, and Sherlock introduces him as a ‘friend’? Why is he even there? So he corrects that to ‘colleague’ someone involved in the Work, someone who has a role and a right to be there. He’s not just a friend tagging along for kicks, he’s Sherlock Holmes’ colleague- something he’s proud of. Not realising that to Sherlock, having a friend to show off is actually more important.

 

By the way, the shooting script of Blind Banker (quoted in that piece) has been up on the BBC website for a few years now -- and the shooting scripts of the other two S1 episodes have just been added.  :D