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Episode 4.0: The Abominable Bride (alias The Special)


Undead Medic

What did you think of "The Abominable Bride"?  

122 members have voted

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    • 10/10 Excellent.
      47
    • 9/10 Not quite the best, but not far off.
      26
    • 8/10 Certainly worth watching again.
      32
    • 7/10 Slightly above the norm.
      12
    • 6/10 Average.
      2
    • 5/10 Slightly sub-par.
      1
    • 4/10 Decidedly below average.
      1
    • 3/10 Pretty Poor.
      0
    • 2/10 Bad.
      0
    • 1/10 Abominable.
      1


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Let's see if this post goes through with the excessive multiquotes. (It does! :cowdance:)

 

 

Since she had no living sibblings, and since her husband was dead and couldn't pick out her tombstone, I would guess that it was picked out by her sisterhood of suffragettes.

What about secret twin?
(I have also included possible reaction below) :)
35kis7d.jpg
 

I've skimmed this morning's posts, and don't think anyone has mentioned this yet:
 
Ariane DeVere's transcript of "The Abominable Bride" is now online!  :applause:

A bit dissappointed that it's plum, like you said. Can I insist of it being plump pudding? It sound sexier...NOT.
Also, crimson wound. Ahhh... I cracked my ears trying to understand that, I thought it sounds Korean..well, maybe some theatrical make-up style term that I don't know, sort of Joker's lips in Batman. :wacko:
 

Yes I think it's fairly obvious BBC Sherlock slammed the door on ACD canons face in the first episode. Rach German for....Slam. Idiots.

:lol:  Nice.
 


Hey, guys, calm down!  That was just a joke, extrapolating from the bet that Victorian Holmes was making with his brother.  "Our" Mycroft is presumably quite safe -- he is physically incapable of dying in 1897.  *off to add a winking face to my original post*

Gosh..yes, wink please.
But is that also means you are putting a wager for two years?
I'm going for 4 years 6 months and 14 days.
I think he will last more than three years.
 

(Do Moftiss have a latent fear of women in wedding dresses?  Just askin'.)

 

Don't most men have a latent fear of women in wedding dresses? :P (Because they're afraid they'll be the groom.... )

First watch I was having memory block for a while trying to think about where did I read about this? Where?
Found the answer.. Games of Thrones  XD

something about men being afraid/frighten by wedding. This is not really spoiler but it's very thin line, if you want to know more, you have to go deeper :)


Also, having to fall to wake up from a dream reminds me of Inception.
 

Right.  (I had just checked the transcript when I read your post.)  The next question is, do we take that at face value?  Probably not.  Victorian police were pretty low on the social totem pole, so Lestrade would consider Hooper to be his superior, and would instinctively use a title.  Maybe he doesn't know what Hooper's actual status is, but doesn't want to risk insulting "him" by accident, so he says "Doctor."

 
I believe he is fully aware of Molly's status and he is not below her, because he was giving her order to help Sherlock when Molly was suggesting that Sherlock left.

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Theory about Irene Idler.

Sherlock met her again after SIB. Karachi is real, but not the way Moffat wants it. Here. At the very least they didn't go separate way right after he saved her, because Irene Adler in Sherlock's Mind Palace is not what he saw her in SIB, he never saw her in white. And, in the scene where her picture was shown, the noise she made was..uhm..I don't know how to describe that, but none of it in SIB.

So, most probably Sherlock has another real memory of her. Uhm.

 

Theory about pilot.

The private jet's pilot sucks. His landing is horrible. XD

 

Small observations:

- Sherlock even more into beating up the corpse this time. :P

-When John said they are talking man to man, he looked a little bit too uncomfortable.

-Sherlock only able to access Moriarty in his mind when he is at death's door, just like HLV.

 

Haven't mentioned, as non book reader, I was very happy when it was revealed that they were at Reichenbach Fall, also, when I saw fat Mycroft.

Glimpse to the source. I think it's nice touch.

 

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I think marriage is very much on Sherlock's mind, and that there is a very literal level here that he realizes he could have married either Molly or Janine if he had behaved differently.  I don't think Irene was really a possibility in this way, and that's part of why she isn't in the secret society line-up.

 

During the greenhouse scene in which Holmes and Watson discuss why Sherlock is so bent on being alone, it's Holmes that escalates the talk to marriage as something that John is the expert in.  I think that conversation could well have stayed in the realm of "experiences" and "impulses" if Holmes hadn't thrown in marriage.

 

In any event, this is, IMHO, an important step in Sherlock's knowledge of himself.  Once the idea of women (in general; perhaps Molly or Janine in particular) as wives is brought up, he can't forget it.  Marriage is now a possibility for him, at least in his own mind, and Mr. Sex-Doesn't-Alarm-Me will have to grapple with that.

 

(Let me note that I don't think that Sherlock will marry; that would go too far against canon.  But I do think it is now a possibility in his own mind, which is a more realistic portrayal of a modern Holmes than one that simply doesn't acknowledge that that side of life even exists.  In modern times, he can't consign women to the domestic realm and leave them to it, like he would have done in Victorian times.)

 

 

Please don't encourage my idiocy.    I'm all heart eyes over here at this.    :wub:   I don't need to see Holmes married, or even want to see him in a relationship during the course of the show... but if he would, I dunno, want to settle down in his little cottage and keep bees with a lady friend someday...

 

ETA:  seeing it in the theater tonight!!

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Saw it again last night at the theater.  It was sold out.  Still didn't pay attention to the VR on the wall or the jack knife on the mantle as I was distracted by everything else again (But I did notice the elephant in the room falling).  Maybe I'll notice them on Sunday when I can re-watch it again on PBS.  I did enjoy the behind the scenes they played after & the tour of 221B that Steven did before the episode.  I'm not sure if all cinemas had this, but we had Sherlock trivia on the screen before hand and they had a glaring error.  The question was about the ringtone on Moriarty's phone but they had that part of the pool scene as being in TBB instead of ASIB.

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Geez. I can't. I can't read anymore. I decided to cocoon today and stayed in bed, reading the first chapters of the ACD collection. And now it's even more to read. HEEEEEELP!

Do you think that it's time to split this thread into some more specific ones?

 

ETA: we have a holiday today, that's why I was able to do my cocooning.

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bit random, but.... now that I've had time to think about it, why couldn't they have gotten a better screengrab for the 'photograph' of Irene kept by 'Holmes' as a memento?? It even *looked* like it was a modern photo, with her wearing a hint of modern dress :D  couldn't they have Photoshopped a Victorian portrait or something?

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Thinking about the episode some more.  I really like Mycroft talking with John at the end of the airplane scene.  Mycroft looks like he could use a big hug (maybe his sentiment remarks are to help keep him from losing it emotionally because of Sherlock's actions regarding the drugs & such).

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Obviously, I've always been a huge Mycroft fan and apologist, but the biggest downside to TAB for me is that I'm feeling really sympathetic towards Mycroft and actually a little annoyed at Sherlock.  The general impression I took away from this episode is that Sherlock, on multiple occasions, has apparently put Mycroft through the wringer as a result of his drug abuse.  And you know, I feel for Mycroft.  Despite being called the "Ice Man" by Irene Adler, he's not.  He never was.  Maybe he tries to be, but it's like the very thing he's warned Sherlock of... "caring is not an advantage"... is the one thing has hurt and impacted Mycroft.  He can't not care for Sherlock.  Everything he's ever said is 100% true:  he worries constantly, losing Sherlock would break his heart.  I can't even blame Mycroft for his less than nice attitude towards Sherlock most of the time.  He's probably 200% done with Sherlock's antics.  It's created more than a small chink in Sherlock's hero armor for me.   I mean, Sherlock has always been a less than perfect hero figure (hell he told John not to make him a hero... but who are we kidding, he'll always be a bit of a hero) but this has caused me to look at him differently.  I don't dislike or hate Sherlock, if anything it just makes me sad.  That scene showing a younger Sherlock and Mycroft (where the list started) broke my heart.

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That kind of broke my heart as well.  I paid closer attention to it last night at the cinema than I did when I saw it on PBS.

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bit random, but.... now that I've had time to think about it, why couldn't they have gotten a better screengrab for the 'photograph' of Irene kept by 'Holmes' as a memento?? It even *looked* like it was a modern photo, with her wearing a hint of modern dress :D  couldn't they have Photoshopped a Victorian portrait or something?

I had the same thought but it might just be the first sign that "we're not in London anymore", the first inconsistency.

 

As for Mycroft - apart from wanting to give him another hug - I am not convinced that we (and whoever in who's head we were all the time) are really "awake". Mycroft's behavior is just too different from what we have seen before.

His reaction is so unlike his rage when he comes with Anderson and Co to search 221B in HLV, he says things he would never say to Sherlock - he is usually snarky and sarcastic to cover his worry. And - he calls John Dr.Watson, while he was using his first name for a long time already. There seem also to be slight differences in his outfit between the scene in the car and in the plane.

 

"I will always be there for you"? - oh Mycroft, you won't. It's impossible, simply because you are neither omnipotent nor immortal. From all people - you should know better than that.

 

What if it is a Mycroft in Sherlock's deepest levels of MP? The Mycroft Sherlock wished for? The proper big brother?

 

Sherlock was trying to wake up by falling. Maybe he just fell deeper?

 

This though still doesn't explain why Sherlock is so deep in his MP, or/and on drugs. (the latest I am doubting a bit right now)

There is a theory that Sherlock have been under influence on the airport. Or that he even wanted to kill himself trough overdosing. Mycroft says addicts can hide it, but Sherlock's reddened face can't. We see it clearly at the beginning of HLV, and also when he "wakes up" in the plane.

 

It seems important that we find out what Sherlock have heard from Mycroft on the phone before the plane turned.

 

But then - it would be still to little time for him to get a dose of some drug and go deep. And why should he do it while still on the plane instead of waiting until he's at home?

 

And if Sherlock wanted to kill himself he would surely not wake up from just being shaken and talked to...

Until he is dying and what we see is his last trip... :o

 

PS: What still rattles in my head: Assuming Sherlock's drugged - his inner Jim was unchained there. His Shadow(sic!) again, running free this time because drugs loosen the control. Which makes no... okay it would make sense if Sherlock drugged himself to overcome logic because he needed more...

 

Sorry my thought are just like that - jumping here and there, it's a chaos.

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  The general impression I took away from this episode is that Sherlock, on multiple occasions, has apparently put Mycroft through the wringer as a result of his drug abuse.  And you know, I feel for Mycroft.  Despite being called the "Ice Man" by Irene Adler, he's not.  He never was.  Maybe he tries to be, but it's like the very thing he's warned Sherlock of... "caring is not an advantage"... is the one thing has hurt and impacted Mycroft.  He can't not care for Sherlock.  Everything he's ever said is 100% true:  he worries constantly, losing Sherlock would break his heart.  

 

I do think as J.P. suggests below that the Mycroft we see is sherlock's version, but I still think that there is more than a grain of truth to the fact that Mycroft has had to deal with constantly worrying about Sherlock. For some reason ( I wish I knew why) Mycroft took over this caretaking/ parental role with Sherlock. It even makes sense to me that Mycroft is more afraid of relationships than Sherlock is- because of how painful it is for him to love his brother (which may be the primary relationship he has in his life). In contrast, Sherlock's primary relationship before John was probably Mycroft, who despite everything seems to have offered his steadfast loyalty and support- which was something for Sherlock to build on when it came to John. 

 

 

"I will always be there for you"? - oh Mycroft, you won't. It's impossible, simply because you are neither omnipotent nor immortal. From all people - you should know better than that.

 

What if it is a Mycroft in Sherlock's deepest levels of MP? The Mycroft Sherlock wished for? The proper big brother?

 

Sherlock was trying to wake up by falling. Maybe he just fell deeper?

 

This though still doesn't explain why Sherlock is so deep in his MP, or/and on drugs. (the latest I am doubting a bit right now)

There is a theory that Sherlock have been under influence on the airport. Or that he even wanted to kill himself trough overdosing. Mycroft says addicts can hide it, but Sherlock's reddened face can't. We see it clearly at the beginning of HLV, and also when he "wakes up" in the plane.

 

 

The way I see it, if this is Sherlock's view of Mycroft, it isn't just about wish fulfillment. I think that on some level Sherlock realises that having an almost omnipotent protector has in many ways made him a worse person. It's easier to relapse on drugs, or to shoot Magnussen, if you know that somewhere your brother is waiting ready to pick up the list or clean up the mess. He even has (his version of) Mycroft say 'This is my fault'.

 

I think Sherlock blames Mycroft for some of his problems the way most people would blame their parents. There was a hint of this with the 'I'll be mother'/ 'childhood in a nutshell' exchange in SiB. I also think he gets so angry with Mycroft because of the guilt he feels for what he's putting him through- much as we see his continuing anger at Molly when he knows he's upset her by taking drugs. I've never seen a more transparent display of how Sherlock uses his nastier 'insights' to lash out at somebody who's gotten too close to him, than when he is lashing out at Mycroft on the plane. I'm now wondering if the constant tension we see with the two brothers is born out of the fact of Mycroft's anxiety for Sherlock, and Sherlock's resulting guilt.

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Are we operating under the assumption that only the middle modern day bit was mind palace/hallucination?  I assumed the first and latter were real.  They must be real because I want everything Mycroft said to be real.

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I'm sorry to be so unhelpful, but I'm not sure if any of the modern day stuff was real. At most, I think only fragments were, maybe perceived through a drugged haze (and yes maybe the middle bit).

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One thing I noticed this time out is that when Holmes says that Watson has been wounded in the war, Watson kind of looks surprised and then glances at his shoulder and then his cane.  It's the wrong shoulder, I think, but I'll take that as another nod to what someone (on Tumblr?) called "Arthur 'Continuity' Doyle."   :D

Going by canon, "Study in Pink," and (according to Ariane DeVere) the opening scenes of TAB, it should be his left shoulder.  I'll have to pay attention tonight -- if I can remember to look for that, with everything else going on!

 

Let me note that I don't think that Sherlock will marry; that would go too far against canon.

 

That's precisely what I said before Series 3, when some posters thought it'd be neat if Mary turned out to be a baddie.  (Not that I think she's necessarily an actual baddie, but she sure ain't Conan Doyle's sweet little Mary Morstan.)

 

But is that also means you are putting a wager for two years?

I'm going for 4 years 6 months and 14 days.

I think [Mycroft] will last more than three years.

 

Nope, not a wager.  I really have no idea, just going along with his brother's opinion (and being a smart-ass).  Besides, how would we ever settle the bet if the Moftisses never take us back to the Victorian Era again?

 

Victorian police were pretty low on the social totem pole, so Lestrade would consider Hooper to be his superior, and would instinctively use a title.  Maybe he doesn't know what Hooper's actual status is, but doesn't want to risk insulting "him" by accident, so he says "Doctor."

 

I believe he is fully aware of Molly's status and he is not below her, because he was giving her order to help Sherlock when Molly was suggesting that Sherlock left.

 

Oops!  :blush:  That's what I get for not reading the rest of that line of dialog.  Lestrade does indeed order Hooper to work with Holmes, so apparently Victorian Molly is (like Victorian Anderson as well as early modern Anderson) a Scotland Yard employee.  I wonder if modern Molly is also?  I wonder whether Sherlock himself has the slightest idea what her educational level, job title, and employer actually are?

 

Theory about pilot.

The private jet's pilot sucks. His landing is horrible. XD

Are you calling her a crazy woman driver?  :P  (She's apparently played by the same actress who played Lady Carmichael, though you couldn't have proved that by me.)

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Which is again a thought about women in men's world. But - could Sherlock see the pilot before the flight? How did he know, to built her face into his MP?

 

Still haven't been reading your posts, so I might repeat something. The sign that 2015 is more real than1895 - the Victorian 221B shakes, because the plane has landed. Cannot get rid of Inception, there was something similar, along with falling to wake up and the time running slower in a dream.

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I've only seen it once so far, but at the beginning after "Alternately ...", didn't the time scroll back to 1880 something (the scroll didn't stop) ? 

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It zoomed past 1895 and disappeared of screen around 1880.

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bit random, but.... now that I've had time to think about it, why couldn't they have gotten a better screengrab for the 'photograph' of Irene kept by 'Holmes' as a memento?? It even *looked* like it was a modern photo, with her wearing a hint of modern dress :D  couldn't they have Photoshopped a Victorian portrait or something?

 

I think that was on purpose; it was one of the little "tells" that this is all in Holmes's mind.  The present keeps breaking through.

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Okay, I finally managed to sort my thoughts about the special a bit and afterwards reading the whole thread.

 

I found it a bit funny when it finally turned out that the Victorian stuff was in Sherlock's mind palace because although I had read that  the special would be something on its own I had a dream about the special a few nights before the special aired where Victorian scenes were only in Sherlock's mind palace to solve a problem. In that dream I wasn't able to find out what the problem was he wanted to solve and after I woke up I thought: "That's a bit crazy, why would it have to be a Victorian setting? It's probably not going to happen."  The reason of the dream probably was the title of the special which I somehow connected with Mary shooting Sherlock in a wedding dress in his mind palace. In general the dream was so confusing and I wasn't sure how they could make that really happen that I thought that cannot come true, but then it actually happened! But it really was confusing, I have to say, even when it made more sense than my dream.

 

As it seems I have missed a lot, so it was interesting reading all your thoughts and understanding a bit more through that.

@my take on the Moriarty is that like the bride the Moriarty that shot himself in the head is dead , but that like the bride , Moriarty set it up in such a notorious and public way so that somebody else could use his name and reputation and become the next Moriarty / napoleon of crime .Also back in TGG and TRF the were clues that Moriarty was, like the bride , dieing anyway . Moriarty now seems to be a family or group and that is why Sherlocks final Q to mp Moriarty was 'what are you' .
Moriarty is now like the ghost bride and could be anyone and a cover for more crimes etc.

Think thats a scenario from a Rathbone film..... :-)

I agree with this theory. Moriarty is dead, but there are still many possibilities of how his "work" can be continued.

 

What do you mean with "was dieing anyway" regarding Moriarty? I get it with the bride, but Moriarty? I think you don't mean the obvious that Moriarty would die when the bomb at the pool would have exploded. Is there anything I have missed?

 

 

... for me, it's pretty clear that 2015 was the real world and 189...? was the mind palace/dream state [...] because Victorian Mycroft mentioned 'the virus in the data', which can't be a 125 year old saying. :D

 
... especially since the word "virus" (in the sense of a disease organism) was not used until 1898.

I didn't know about since when the word was used, but I guessed that something is wrong nevertheless. The expression just seemed to be quite out of place for the time. But the first moment when I started to wonder was when Sherlock once said "he" instead of "she" and is then corrected. I think that scene was earlier than the "virus in the data" one.

 
I hadn't thought about it when I was watching it, but I love the idea that all the characters are represented as Sherlock sees them, not as they actually are. Still mulling over what that might mean, especially for Molly (she's one of the boys?) My guess is that he thinks of Mycroft as a fat man because 1) Mycroft was actually fat once, 2) he struggles to stay lean, and 3) it's one area where Sherlock excels over his brother, so he rubs it in when he can. But mostly I think Mycroft was fat because it was just brilliantly funny. :D
 
Oh, and I don't think anyone else has mentioned it, but the most sustained laugh for me was when they were trying to communicate in the Diogenese Club. Apparently Sherlock finds that "silence" rule to be even more ridiculous than I do! :rofl:

I am still thinking about what all those representations mean and what that says about Sherlock himself. But during the first time it was just too much to deal with at the same time, especially when you don't even have the information that it's just going on in Sherlock's mind for a long time.

I agree that the Diogenes Club scene was quite funny. But besides that John was so bad at it I found the idea of using sign language there quite funny and interesting in general.

It was nice to see Anderson again.  Perhaps it's an indication that he's working with Scotland Yard again and not just heading up a fan club.

It can be, but I think it also can be that Anderson only represents his (former) job in Sherlock's mind palace without meaning that he actually works with the Scotland Yard again.

I've skimmed this morning's posts, and don't think anyone has mentioned this yet:

 

Ariane DeVere's transcript of "The Abominable Bride" is now online!  :applause:

Thanks for the link. I'll read it soon and think it will make some things clearer.

 


-Sherlock only able to access Moriarty in his mind when he is at death's door, just like HLV.

Interesting observation about Sherlock and Moriarty. I see it now, but haven't thought about it that way before.

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Caution! Another images that cannot be unseen

 

https://twitter.com/Anythingbatch/status/684862932761600000

 

To be honest, I thought the costume was part of the chair, and that's why he couldn't get up out of it. :d This was one of the best jokes they've done yet, imo.

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Caution! Another images that cannot be unseen

 

https://twitter.com/Anythingbatch/status/684862932761600000

Spiffy! Have any about how they did the face and hands? :D

 

The Victorian version have more hair than the modern Mycroft. :O

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Geez. I can't. I can't read anymore. I decided to cocoon today and stayed in bed, reading the first chapters of the ACD collection. And now it's even more to read. HEEEEEELP!

Do you think that it's time to split this thread into some more specific ones?

I think a couple of new "TAB" threads have already been started, and I have one in mind myself as soon as I get to see the Special a few more times ... so as far as I'm concerned, go for it. Just make sure "SPOILER" is in the title to warn off any unsuspecting visitors. :smile:

 

On the Mycroft issue ... I just have to see it again before I can really chime in, but unless something drastic changes, I don't think I will ever trust him. Sherlock may be a drug addict, a narcissist, and a murderer ... but I do believe he's on the side of the angels. I'm not so sure about Mycroft; for one thing, he is altogether too powerful to be trustworthy. (How's that for cynicism? :p ) And I don't know who his masters are, or what they're goals are, and if he's willing to stand up to them when they're wrong, or if he'll compromise to keep his power. I rather suspect the latter, or he wouldn't be where he is.

 

Sherlock, on the other hand, is his own man. That alone doesn't make him "good" -- but I do think with Sherlock, at least what we see is what we get. So far, to me Mycroft just seems to be whatever serves him best at the moment.

 

Anyway, my feeling is that all the scenes with Mycroft were in Sherlock's head, but won't swear to it until I've seen it a few more times.

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