The Abominable Bride: Does It Mean Anything?

[Arcadia]

 

 

That would be a wrinkle.

 

How does Holmes respond to Miss Morstan in the original? Does he admire her arches? Or otherwise demonstrate that he finds her likeable?

 

I don't remember anything exceptional about his response, but it's been a while since I've read the original.

 

To be clear, I think my impression is not so much that Sherlock is jealous over Mary, in that he really truly wants to marry her, but that he's jealous that John has this relationship with this exceptional woman, and he takes it for granted.  And that Sherlock is maybe realizing that he has dismissed woman after woman as something that's "not really his area," when he maybe could have had a shot at that for himself.  

 

My view is, this is a one-sided competition with Sherlock keep pushing himself to compete with Mycroft, while in reality Mycroft never show the need to play such game. That speaks about Sherlock seeing himself as inadequate, something that is reinforced in the beginning scene in the suffragettes' lair. Must be galling to be always second best but instead of capitalizing and cultivating on his own personal advantages that Mycroft doesn't appear to have he choose to deny reality and keep pursuing what is actually not necessary. No wonder he needs to learn the difference between details and distraction, he still is someone who lost sight of the forest because all he sees is trees everywhere. He always will be a lost little boy left to the mercy of the puppetmasters if he cannot recognize what is truly important in the short and long run and prioritize accordingly. Knowing what to use and what to set aside at any time is crucial in life, especially in the age of distractions like ours right now.

Agreed to both. Sherlock questions himself and his life choices ... like most people, I suspect. Welcome to the real world, Mr. Holmes! :p Nothing clear cut out here, I'm afraid!

[Lalarun]

 

That would be a wrinkle.

 

How does Holmes respond to Miss Morstan in the original? Does he admire her arches? Or otherwise demonstrate that he finds her likeable?

Since I have recently read The Sign of Four, I remembered Holmes made some comments about her during the story.

I looked the scenes I remembered up to get them literally, so here are a few quotes:

 

Directly addressed at her:

You are certainly a model client. You have the correct intuition.

 

Conversation with Watson:

"What a very attractive woman!" I exclaimed, turning to my companion. He had lit his pipe again, and was leaning back with drooping eyelids. "Is she?" he said, languidly. "I did not observe."

 

Another conversation with Watson at the end of the story:

"Well, and there is the end of our little drama," I remarked, after we had set some time smoking in silence. "I fear that it may be the last investigation in which I shall have the chance of studying your methods. Miss Morstan has done me the honor to accept me as a husband in prospective." He gave a most dismal groan. "I feared as much," said he. "I really cannot congratulate you."

I was a little hurt. "Have you any reason to be dissatisfied with my choice?" I asked.

"Not at all. I think she is one of the most charming young ladies I ever met, and might have been most useful in such work as we have been doing. She had a decided genius that way: witness the way in which she preserved that Agra plan from all the other papers of her father. But love is an emotional thing, and whatever is emotional is opposed to that true cold reason which I place above all things. I should never marry myself, lest I bias my judgment."

 

 

[clavery111]

"I really cannot congratulate you."  

Aha!  from the ACD I see.  It struck a weird note in Sherlock's bestman speech, I thought.  He hastened to correct and/or amend it but still.. it was awkward for him to say.  

[Van Buren Supernova]

"I really cannot congratulate you."

Aha! from the ACD I see. It struck a weird note in Sherlock's bestman speech, I thought. He hastened to correct and/or amend it but still.. it was awkward for him to say.

I think it's because Sherlock views marriage and relationship as something emotional and inconvenience, which is something that is beyond him for the line of lifestyle that he chooses.

 

He always knows that John is more of family man who always looks for serious love and relationship, something he disapproves because to him it's a disadvantage, but I believe he understands that need and happy for John that he has choosen someone suitable.

 

But of course, he knows nothing good comes out from marriage except heartbreak at the end, by distraction, betrayal or mortality.

That's why he doesn't congritulate John the way normal people do when someone ties a knot. It's comparable to murder, remember? XD

[Van Buren Supernova]

Have we discussed this to death or there are rooms for more? :p

 

I was thinking about Sherlock, Moriarty and John at the Reichenbach Fall.. beside realizing that he doesn't work alone now, he has John, he has someone who got his back, etc etc..

is there a possibility that this is his way of 'amending' Bart's rooftop?

 

In TRF, John was not there, he took Moriarty's bait and went to check Mrs.Hudson, throwing a couple of angry words at Sherlock. Sherlock let him go eventhough he saw it through, but maybe deep down he was a tiny bit disappointed that John, the only one who believes him, (beside Molly who never doubts Sherlock for a second, good old Molly, except few slaps on the face :p) still discounted him as cold heartless person while he put in all those efforts, got into that mess, entangled himself in complicated scenarios trying to outdo Moriarty while treading carefully around his loved one's safety, because he should be fully aware that Moriarty was going to play their cards, that's what bad guys do.

 

So, now with possibilities to face Moriarty again, and whoever enemies he would come across, or even his inner demon, he was convincing himself that now John would be someone he could really rely on, to trust him, in his mind by making Victorian John believes Sherlock in even what sounds like most ridiculous scenarios, like stories about modern-day John and all modern contraptions.

 

Because I always see Sherlock as someone who always has doubt that he is lovable or deserves that kind of love and trust. He probably always questions it even after TEH and TSoT.

[Arcadia]

Always room for more!

[clavery111]

I've been wondering if Mofftiss, in their quest to modernize Sherlock, is going to make Sherlock more and more capable of "emotional intelligence", understanding, and participation in emotions.  If they are going to make him more psychologically modern in that respect  - not stuck in his repressed, lonely, bizarre emotional dead-zone.   Indeed, immediately after Sherlock says "I really cannot congratulate you" during his best man speech, he stops himself, pauses and then says, 'but ... now I can' and moves on w/ praising Mary and John and their couplehood.  Sherlock accepts John's help at the RF during TAB - same sort of "emotional growth" in the Sherlock character, no?  Maybe a bit?

[Arcadia]

I for one would like it if that's what they're planning.

 

I think.

 

Surely one point they were making in TAB was that Victorian attitudes towards women and marriage are not appropriate by today's standards ... so it would be nice if Sherlock modernized his thinking about the subject as well. On the other hand, that's one of the things that makes him uniquely Sherlock ... his rather antiquarian (and somewhat chivalrous) attitude towards women. It's not without its charms.

 

Still, I hope you're right.

 

I think. :p

[clavery111]

I would like to see healthy emotional growth and insight... that would be a really good way of "modernizing" Sherlock.  But I have no idea if that is what Mofftiss is going for or not.

 

 Modernizing - which includes societal changes towards women and also towards homosexuality?  I dunno about TAB though, I really felt they cough, cough, got the mansplainin' thing bad.

[Carol the Dabbler]

My apologies if this has already been mentioned, but it just occurred to me that -- unlike the Conan Doyle stories that it mimics-- the mind-palace portion of the episode is not told from Watson's point of view. For one thing, it does not present Holmes as a flawless hero, and it even has Watson pointing out the difference on several occasions. Also, there is at least one scene (Mary and Mycroft) that Watson is clearly unaware of.

 

So whose point of view is it from? Apparently Modern Sherlock's (since it's his mind palace). But then there's the cozy fireplace scene at the end....

[Arcadia]

I think the fireplace scene is Victorian Sherlock's pov, as a sort of joke. (Yes, you clever viewers, it was all in his head ... but which Holmes was it?) (In fact, I can just hear Gatiss saying that... )

[J.P.]

Yep. The reason why my brain was doing flip-flops after TAB.

And it's delicious like a big strawberry cake.

 

More of this, Ga-tiss!

 

[J.P.]

Watching TAB on TV.

What is the case Moriarty is talking about at 221B? The case that's no "the tip of his tongue"

(and hell, is Andrew creepy in that scene!)

[besleybean]

Creepy?

He smolders: sex on legs!

The case he's talking about is the bride, or in fact his own case: how does somebody survive shooting themselves in the mouth.

[J.P.]

Okay, creepy sex on legs.

[Arcadia]

I second the creepy.

[besleybean]

I'm not even a shipper, but the sexual tension in that scene is palpable!

[Arcadia]

Soooooo... I haven't had time to glance back through this thread (and I'm off again in a moment), but I think my question's been answered ... heck, yeah, this episode means quite a lot in light of the developments in Series 4! But did any of us guess right as to what it meant?

 

I see Clavery111 nailed one development, just above. http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/3281-the-abominable-bride-does-it-mean-anything/?p=97187 One point for Clavery!