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The Abominable Bride: Does It Mean Anything?


Arcadia
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I also think all this dwelling on the bodies and replacement bodies might mean more than we yet know. It also made me think of SiB, when Irene clearly found a replacement body too. Is it really so easy to go about procuring replacement bodies that look exactly like an actual dead person (admittedly Irene's has a damaged face, which to my mind is more believable.)

 

I too wonder about their ease in finding duplicate bodies, and would agree that Irene's case is more plausible -- except that Sherlock did positively identify her from "not her face."  Would be rare to find two similarly built women with identical mole patterns or whatever he based his identification on.  Also, Sherlock's "double" was apparently Cumberbatch's stunt double, who bears a general physical resemblance to him, but is certainly no twin face-wise (which is generally what one goes by when screaming at the mere sight of someone).

 

If "it's never twins," then how can it so often be identical bodies?

 

I'm beginning to think the bodies are Moftiss's equivalent of Tolkien's eagles -- when all else fails....

 

 

How indeed. To be honest, I don't like the "everyone has a body double" thing either. It seems, though, that inside the Sherlockverse, this is a law of nature.

 

In none of the cases where this has been used did the resemblance have to be very strong, however. Irene needed someone with an extremely similar body type and measurements, but she presumably had a lot of time to plan and search and the face could have been totally dissimilar. How she dealt with the DNA tests she told us herself... Sherlock, who probably got the idea for the second body from her (not meaning she actively advised him or anything, just that hers was a fairly recent fake death he had dealt with), took advantage of the fact that Moriarty had already found a lookalike to kidnap the children (and conveniently murdered him into the bargain). He could have used just any old corpse, actually, because the person who conducted the post-mortem and did the paperwork was Molly, and she was in on the plan. The same goes for Sherlock's mind-palace version of the Ricoletti case, of course. Emilia also had Molly as an ally. Btw, I had been wondering what Emilia's rather extreme makeup was for, but of course it was meant to obscure her facial features and give people some non-natural identifiers for her, so that when later the other women impersonated her, they could get away with showing their faces at least briefly.

 

It seems to be the part with the second body that Sherlock is the most unsure about, interestingly. Perhaps he has a misgiving that his brain has simply superimposed his real-life experiences on the case instead of solving it based on purely the information he had from old records etc. That's why he'd like to dig up her coffin and check.

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Waiting in the greenhouse until all lights go out is straight from the Speckled Band, as is the scream that follows, portending Dr Grimesby Roylott's death, and as for the fair sex being Dr Watson's field of expertise, it comes straight out of one of my top ten Sherlock Holmes stories: The Second Stain, where Lady Hilda Trelawney Hope comes to visit them and drives Holmes to wonder about her motives!

@sfmpco: You have graciously let us borrow Sheralyn's name for the other Baby thread, so there you will find that graduate chemists do not need to sniff stuff!

According to the timeline, he took some heroine with the help of a guard before leaving his prison cell, after all he's owed favours all over, both in ACD and this thing! From then on, in the plane, all his need to go deeper could involve cocaine suppositories, so, an innocuous visit to the lavatory immediately after take-off, since you're not allowed to use them while on the ground. I did briefly mention that in SherlockedCamper's Baby thread. No needles, no sniffs, and the double entendre of having to go deeper! In fact, that's how he would have avoided being found in possession during Lestrade's "drugs bust" in SiP. Added advantage, you can OD at your convenience, heroin having lost its power by the time the plane landed, and you can be your streak-lightning self exiting the aeroplane on a slow cocaine high! Needle in Mind Palace needed only for effect!

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What a crafty idea! No ugly needles, no give-away sniffing, and the whole process taken from A Rebours! Well, his grandmother was Vernet's sister! Art in the blood and all that! Pure genius, but then he is one! :smile:

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Jump in, please!

 

I thought the same thing; I can't sympathize with drug use, but I know what you mean about escaping from reality, and I know how hard it is to give up bad habits; so on some level I can identify with the compulsion. And now that they've decided to go there, to just drop it as if it never happened feels wrong to me ... just like acting as if Sherlock never murdered someone feels wrong to me. But we'll see; I've noticed the Moftisses have a different way of looking at some things than I do! :P

 

I'm very nervous of how they would handle the drugs, if they develop that storyline, because just like the other aspect (body doubles) that we're discussing, drugs can become a way of explaining any altered perceptions and any out-of-character behaviour. I don't believe they have gone too far with any of that yet. I say that more from having been a fan of House, because they really went to town on the drug addiction storyline there, and I felt crossed some lines on the inner dignity of the character. I always preferred that our Sherlock was more of a recovered addict, with very occasional relapses.

 

 

 

 

How indeed. To be honest, I don't like the "everyone has a body double" thing either. It seems, though, that inside the Sherlockverse, this is a law of nature.

 

In none of the cases where this has been used did the resemblance have to be very strong, however. Irene needed someone with an extremely similar body type and measurements, but she presumably had a lot of time to plan and search and the face could have been totally dissimilar. How she dealt with the DNA tests she told us herself... Sherlock, who probably got the idea for the second body from her (not meaning she actively advised him or anything, just that hers was a fairly recent fake death he had dealt with), took advantage of the fact that Moriarty had already found a lookalike to kidnap the children (and conveniently murdered him into the bargain). He could have used just any old corpse, actually, because the person who conducted the post-mortem and did the paperwork was Molly, and she was in on the plan. The same goes for Sherlock's mind-palace version of the Ricoletti case, of course. Emilia also had Molly as an ally. Btw, I had been wondering what Emilia's rather extreme makeup was for, but of course it was meant to obscure her facial features and give people some non-natural identifiers for her, so that when later the other women impersonated her, they could get away with showing their faces at least briefly.

 

It seems to be the part with the second body that Sherlock is the most unsure about, interestingly. Perhaps he has a misgiving that his brain has simply superimposed his real-life experiences on the case instead of solving it based on purely the information he had from old records etc. That's why he'd like to dig up her coffin and check.

 

 

I do think there are significant holes in the logic of the body doubles idea though. They had to be thinking closed casket funeral for Sherlock, and that nobody, like John for example, would insist on seeing the body. There were many ways for it to go wrong. And for Irene, being as wanted as she was, to me the fact the body's face was obscured would raise doubts- even if the records confirmed it was her. If anything, with the mere fact that people keep coming back from the dead in this universe, surely at this stage the police might say- oh, another corpse with a bashed in head/ Molly being the only one allowed to see the body, it's that old body double scam at work again!

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Sentimental goldfish.. :P

I wish I am, although maybe not. There are just things I could't stand although I probably shouldn't bother.

I don't think I jumped as well, I observed for a while, then I jumped. Believe me, I don't like wasting effort.

 

Anyway, regarding body double.

I had a very quick peek, it happens between Moriarty appears as the bride and the Reichenbach Fall scene.

I think it's the lowest moment when he is cornered and couldn't find better explanation, in tormented mind when he wasn't able to distinguish what was real and not, probably translated to almost OD as well. I least that's what I think.

 

Also, Sherlock's "double" was apparently Cumberbatch's stunt double, who bears a general physical resemblance to him, but is certainly no twin face-wise (which is generally what one goes by when screaming at the mere sight of someone).

:rofl: I have to laugh at the last sentence. :lol:
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Maybe something to do with the layout of their soundstage, or something equally mundane. Or maybe it's a clue! :d

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I was just thinking how Sherlock replayed John & Mary's relationship in his mind: at first they're not really getting along, because Watson expects Mrs. Watson to be nothing but the sweet little wifey-poo; then he finds out she's a spy, and he's okay with it. Sort of like how Sherlock thinks John reacted after he found out Mary was an assassin, and how he thinks John should have reacted. Oh, Sherlock, you really do have a unique view of relationships.... :d

 

I was going to ask if this signals anything for the future, but I've already decided this is just Moftiss' way of NOT advancing the John/Mary dynamic one whit. They're precisely where we left them at the end of HLV.

 

 

 

 

 

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I was just thinking how Sherlock replayed John & Mary's relationship in his mind: at first they're not really getting along, because Watson expects Mrs. Watson to be nothing but the sweet little wifey-poo; then he finds out she's a spy, and he's okay with it. Sort of like how Sherlock thinks John reacted after he found out Mary was an assassin, and how he thinks John should have reacted.

 

I think at least a quarter of The Abominable Bride is Sherlock indulging in wishful thinking. I would love to go on and on about this, but I have to go to work now.

 

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The preview Just the two of us against the rest of the world..

Beside solidifying John and Sherlock as has been concluded by the Fall scene, does it mean anything else?

Cough *Mary?* cough?

 

Or is it the same thing and I'm beating a dead horse?

I don't want to beat any horse, dead or alive, but maybe we can study about bruise after death. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's not funny. It's what it's called: a HELL.

I DID check the tie and on my monitor they looked the same. But they don't on those pix. And the scarf is DEFINITELY different.

Is there another show in the world, where you count dots on someone's tie to determine the interpretation?

They just mess with us, the nassssty Mofftisses.

 

I like the mention of the inner world not being identical with the reality, even if the Inception quote doesn't apply here.

I also like it because it might support my theory of the whole episode being in Sherlock's head, even if it's not the main argument :D

 

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An one more theory that is spooking around in my head.

What if Sherlock needs only to imagine taking drugs to get the effect? Once I experienced fantom pain only because I though I cut myself, recently on a documentary about brain they shown a woman who could think herself into an orgasm, we all know the placebo effect and yogis controlling their bodily functions...

I just have a problem believing that Sherlock could take a second dosis while in trance. Or that he woke up to do it. He is imagining taking the 7% solution.

The list could also be imaginary, maybe based on the experiences he had with drugs (with a very fresh one from the beginning of HLV) - and be meant to help him to get into the mood.

I don't say it's the OTI (only true interpretation). Maybe it's only my wishful thinking. I just want to believe. which seems fitting as the new X-Files are airing in German TV today :P

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It's not funny. It's what it's called: a HELL.

I DID check the tie and on my monitor they looked the same. But they don't on those pix. And the scarf is DEFINITELY different.

Is there another show in the world, where you count dots on someone's tie to determine the interpretation?

They just mess with us, the nassssty Mofftisses.

 

I like the mention of the inner world not being identical with the reality, even if the Inception quote doesn't apply here.

I also like it because it might support my theory of the whole episode being in Sherlock's head, even if it's not the main argument :D

 

I wasted so much time on that stupid tie and scarf.  I studied each scene carefully to see if it was a clue as to what was real and what was mind palace, like a little easter egg... newp.  It's just a differen tie.  Argh.  

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I know. We're mad. Completely, utterly insane. I love it.

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Oh, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if the entire episode turned out to be in Sherlock's head. After all, it's not as if anything actually happened. As one reviewer said ... all that takes place is, the plane lands and Sherlock gets into a car.... :D (And yet, and yet, why do I feel as if Mycroft, Sherlock and Mary are in a different place than they were at the end of HLV? And why is John left out again?)

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Oh, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit if the entire episode turned out to be in Sherlock's head. After all, it's not as if anything actually happened. As one reviewer said ... all that takes place is, the plane lands and Sherlock gets into a car.... :D (And yet, and yet, why do I feel as if Mycroft, Sherlock and Mary are in a different place than they were at the end of HLV? And why is John left out again?)

 

tumblr_mzpabaMOtj1tq4of6o1_400.gif

 

Those Mycroft moments are canon.   I wouldn't want those moments and the history between Mycroft and Sherlock taken away.

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Dang! I will end buying a Bluray player only to get better screenshots of Mycroft's damn tie!

Definitive different ties and scarves:

lwxl8ow6.jpg

 

But it's not all.

Look at those pix

9xc2d38h.jpg

 

Compare the shape of the sits. In HLV, there is an exit door behind Sherlock, in TAB there is a double sit. In HLV there is a fold-able table between sits in front of Sherlock. The shape and size of the white sticker above the sideboard is different. There is a kind of wooden grid with mirror panels parting the inner room, but the door is different and lacks a plaque in TAB.

 

Guys, this is too much to be a goof. We know Arwel.

 

I leave it for you to digest - I'm at a training course tomorrow, so won't be here until evening. And actually I should be in bed already...

Have fun! :D

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Oh my God, what have I done...................................................................... :wacko:

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Oh Gosh!! What could it mean? I agree with you that it isn't a simple coincidence but I can't imagine any explaination :o

Maybe all what happened in the film,including the ending, is happening in Sherlock's mind, so it isn't completely equal to reality, I don't know.... :wacko:

Maybe Sherlock is so afraid that Moriarty could come back that he tries to investigate how he could do to "resurrect" throw the analogy with the case of the bride.

But it makes no sense, TAB would be a completely useless episode for the plot of S4. Oh, it's so confusing!

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Well, they did say TAB would be a one-off, unconnected to the rest of the episodes! :d

 

 

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Oh my God, what have I done...................................................................... :wacko:

 

Huh? Why?

 

What could that mean? Dunno. I'm for the whole episode being in Sherlock's head. :D

I could say the differences are the reality versus the memory. Even Sherlock with his enormous talent for details would make generalizations of his surroundings. Mycroft wore a red tie with some pattern on it and a blue scarf with red and white rhomboid thingies on it. The same with the plane. White seats the wood-like veneer on the walls, the partition made of mirrors, the door. But there are slight changes in how Sherlock remembers the details.

 

At least one of the plane interiors was built. I could swear, recently I have seen a post in net showing that pieces of this set were reused for Dr. Who (I think it was Dr Who) Naturally I cannot find it now when needed. :(

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I meant .... I have sent us all down the rabbit hole .... the rabbit hole of madness...... :d

 

I can only think of two explanations for these differences:

1. It's intentional.

2. It isn't.

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