Introverts, how is your day?

[Carol the Dabbler]

Poor fella.    I assume they've already checked for constipation and any other gastro-intestinal blockages?

[Carol the Dabbler]

5 hours ago, Artemis said:

... in the US (in some states more than others), degrees these days involve passing all sorts of classes completely irrelevant to your subject of study.  (And I'm not even talking about generals.)

Plus there's this whole idea that everybody needs a degree.

 

 

[Artemis]

5 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Poor fella.    I assume they've already checked for constipation and any other gastro-intestinal blockages?

I think so.  He got a checkup before they took his blood, and it's definitely not constipation.  He's been having some diarrhea.  Hopefully if there's a blockage they couldn't detect during the checkup, it will show up on the ultrasound.  I suspect it's not that, though.

 

[Arcadia]

Aw, poor pup. I hope they can help him.

I'm sorry so many people are down on higher education these days; university was the most interesting time of my life and I would have taken twice as many courses as I did, if I could have. So many subjects I didn't get to explore. Alas, anything mathematical wouldn't have been one of them. (I don't mind the concept of understanding math better … I just suck at it. )  

But I've swallowed the Kool-Aid and am one of those horrible people that think being "well-rounded" is better for both the person getting the learning, and society as a whole. I have a bone to pick with these "technical colleges" that teach only to the subject … I think they are churning out dull, incurious drones, who know how to do one useful thing, but never learn how to think.

Actually, I don't really think that. But I felt another point of view should be inserted here.  You know, so we'll all be more "well-rounded."   People used to tell me I should take debate courses.

I think the idea that everyone needs a degree these days stems from the fear that you can't earn a living wage without one. Which has been proven to be untrue many times, but only for a few, I think. In general, it's getting harder to get by, financially, without a degree. You don't have as many options, and a lot of the jobs that don't require one are going away. It doesn't seem quite fair, but I don't know what the solution is. (My personal choice would be less money to the CEO types and more to the rest of us, but that's not going to happen....)

[Carol the Dabbler]

14 hours ago, Artemis said:

it's definitely not constipation.  He's been having some diarrhea.

Severe constipation can cause something that looks like diarrhea.  Basically, the new stuff can't move through the normal channel because that's blocked by the constipation, so it sort of sidles past the constipation without digesting properly, so it's still loose.  I assume they could detect that by simply palpating his abdomen, but sometimes people can overlook the easy stuff.

One reason people think they need a degree is that many HR people won't hire you for damn near anything unless you have one.  So it'd be easy to blame the HR people, except I suspect they have that attitude because so many high-school grads can barely read or use basic math.

[Artemis]

I'm not down on higher education.  I'm down on, for example, being forced to pay $4500 to take a calculus course, or a physics course or whatnot, as an English major.  I just think the cost and requirements are getting completely out of hand.

Because they decided it's been so long since I earned my Bachelor's, when I went back for my technical degree, they tested me for math competency.  Pre-calc was a prerequisite for starting the degree, but of course I hardly remember most of the math I learned the first time around.  So I had to pay to take an intermediate algebra course, to pay to take an intermediate algebra II course, to pay to take a college algebra course, to pay to take the pre-calc course.  Guess how much pre-calc I've used to program a website?  I hope I never have to go back for another degree, 'cause I'll have to do this all over again.

I love to learn and you can bet I'd be taking as many courses as I could if it were less costly and more self-directed.

It absolutely is beneficial to an individual and society for a person to have a well-rounded education.  However, studies have shown that most students stop retaining what they learn in university (outside their major) after freshman year.  So a well-rounded education and "thinking" skills should be instilled in high school (or earlier), where schools have been cutting arts, languages, and home ec.  By the time people get into college, they should know how to think.

If having a degree is going to become a necessity for more and more jobs, then getting that degree should not force people to go into debt taking courses that are irrelevant to the job they need it for.

My personal opinion is that the majority of degrees should be for personal enrichment, and only that.  Not required for work (unless you're becoming a surgeon or something where you need to be very highly skilled).  Most jobs can be learned on-the-job without a degree, companies are just too greedy to pay for training anymore and instead are upping the degree requirements in hopes of getting someone who knows how to do everything on their first day.  But higher education doesn't teach people how to do a job, either.  That wasn't its purpose, but that's what it's being used for.  Hence the emergence of more technical, specialized degrees, to fill that gap.

 

[Artemis]

25 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Severe constipation can cause something that looks like diarrhea.  Basically, the new stuff can't move through the normal channel because that's blocked by the constipation, so it sort of sidles past the constipation without digesting properly, so it's still loose.  I assume they could detect that by simply palpating his abdomen, but sometimes people can overlook the easy stuff.

Thanks!  I'll bring that up with the vet and ask them to watch out for that, too.

 

[Artemis]

26 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

One reason people think they need a degree is that many HR people won't hire you for damn near anything unless you have one.  So it'd be easy to blame the HR people, except I suspect they have that attitude because so many high-schools grads can barely read or use basic math.

I'd be quicker to blame the companies who are hiring the HR people.  They tell the HR people what they want and what to look for.  The HR people just do what they're told.

 

[Artemis]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Actually, I don't really think that. But I felt another point of view should be inserted here.  You know, so we'll all be more "well-rounded."   People used to tell me I should take debate courses.

People still tell me to be a lawyer, lol.  Actually they don't even use a full sentence anymore, they just look at me and say "Lawyer."

 

[Arcadia]

Lol, I got that too! My Dad and my brother especially. I took it to mean I'd won the argument.  

[Arcadia]

Lol, I got that too! My Dad and my brother especially. I took it to mean I'd won the argument.  

2 hours ago, Artemis said:

I'm not down on higher education.  I'm down on, for example, being forced to pay $4500 to take a calculus course, or a physics course or whatnot, as an English major.  I just think the cost and requirements are getting completely out of hand.

Because it's been so long since I earned my Bachelor's, when I went back for my technical degree, they tested me for math competency.  Pre-calc was a prerequisite for starting the degree, but of course I hardly remember most of the math I learned the first time around.  So I had to pay to take an intermediate algebra course, to pay to take an intermediate algebra II course, to pay to take a college algebra course, to pay to take the pre-calc course.  Guess how much pre-calc I've used to program a website?  I hope I never have to go back for another degree, 'cause I'll have to do this all over again.

I love to learn and you can bet I'd be taking as many courses as I could if it were less costly and more self-directed.

It absolutely is beneficial to an individual and society for a person to have a well-rounded education.  However, studies have shown that most students stop retaining what they learn in university after freshman year.  So a well-rounded education and "thinking" skills should be instilled in high school (or earlier), where schools have been cutting arts, languages, and home ec.

If having a degree is going to become a necessity for more and more jobs, then getting that degree should not force people to go into debt taking courses that are irrelevant to the job they want it for.

My personal opinion is that the majority of degrees should be for personal enrichment, and only that.  Not required for work (unless you're becoming a surgeon or something where you need to be very highly skilled).  Most jobs can be learned on-the-job without a degree, companies are just too greedy to pay for training anymore and instead are upping the degree requirements in hopes of getting someone who knows how to do everything on their first day.  But higher education doesn't teach people how to do a job, either.  That wasn't its purpose, but that's what it's being used for.  Hence the emergence of more technical, specialized degrees, to fill that gap.

I agree with all that. Actually, you bring out a point that I decided not to … I think the root of the problem is corporate America's stranglehold on our society. I place a lot of ills at their greed-driven door.

Those prices are shocking. I paid less than $200 per quarter for my college education (not including supplies, but they weren't much either.) We weren't charged by the course, either … just by the quarter. Of course, that was centuries ago , but  I'm guessing yours is a private school, not a state one. Like I said, corporate America...….

[Artemis]

52 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Those prices are shocking. I paid less than $200 per quarter for my college education (not including supplies, but they weren't much either.) We weren't charged by the course, either … just by the quarter. Of course, that was centuries ago , but  I'm guessing yours is a private school, not a state one. Like I said, corporate America...….

Nope, state.  $954 per credit, 4 credits per course, plus an average of $800 for textbooks for the course.  Even community colleges (which I also attended), though much cheaper by comparison, were no less than $1000 per course.  That's not including the technology fees, lab fees, "required meal plan", "student activity fees", cost of a monthly parking ticket, and various other fees they don't care to explain.  Hopefully you don't need to live on campus, because dorm costs are outrageous too.  I chose a college in-state; non-resident tuition is a horror story.  And don't forget the $50 just to send in an application, plus your $125 "new student fee".

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

10 hours ago, Artemis said:

Most jobs can be learned on-the-job without a degree, companies are just too greedy to pay for training anymore

I'm also a fan of on-the-job training.  That's how I learned to do software (never took a single class in it -- of course there weren't many offered back then).

I don't think companies are entirely to blame for the dearth of such opportunities, though.  The laws and regulations that they must abide by tend to recognize only employees and students, with no apprentice category in the middle.

[Pseudonym]

I've been hiking all day, all steep climbs and descents, half on sand... so hard, everything hurts. I feel like my legs are about to fall off and my feet feel like puff-balls.

[Arcadia]

10 hours ago, Artemis said:

Nope, state.  $954 per credit, 4 credits per course, plus an average of $800 for textbooks for the course.  Even community colleges (which I also attended), though much cheaper by comparison, were no less than $1000 per course.  That's not including the technology fees, lab fees, "required meal plan", "student activity fees", cost of a monthly parking ticket, and various other fees they don't care to explain.  Hopefully you don't need to live on campus, because dorm costs are outrageous too.  I chose a college in-state; non-resident tuition is a horror story.  And don't forget the $50 just to send in an application, plus your $125 "new student fee".

 

Holeeee  #%^&*!!!!!! That's insane! I'm sorry to hear that, Artemis, I had no idea.

I just did a quick check … my old college now charges $270 per credit. Which even at that rate would have kept me from being able to attend, without a scholarship. Our local community college is now $187 per credit; I think I used to pay about that for a single course. Great googly moogly.

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I'm also a fan of on-the-job training.  That's how I learned to do software (never took a single class in it -- of course there weren't many offered back then).

Same here. I did take a dBase course once, only to find out I already knew most of the stuff in it, just from fiddling around with the program at work. But I never learned how to really use the accursed thing.

[Arcadia]

35 minutes ago, Pseudonym said:

I've been hiking all day, all steep climbs and descents, half on sand... so hard, everything hurts. I feel like my legs are about to fall off and my feet feel like puff-balls.

Hopefully that means you will sleep well tonight, though! (I never thought that one of my biggest pleasures would be to simply sleep through the night....)

[Pseudonym]

I fell asleep for a few hours when I got home so maybe not. But I don't generally have issues sleeping through the night so not as much of a treat for me.

[Arcadia]

Ah. May you continue to be so blessed.

I wish I could take a nice long hike. Alas, I haven't the time. I miss it.

[Pseudonym]

I thought I'd better get it in now before my course starts properly. Was tougher than expected though.

[Artemis]

6 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I don't think companies are entirely to blame for the dearth of such opportunities, though.  The laws and regulations that they must abide by tend to recognize only employees and students, with no apprentice category in the middle.

Oh of course, no one is entirely to blame.  There are a great many factors at play.  They certainly have their hand in it, though.

 

[Pseudonym]

Best thing about it getting colder... I can go back to getting away with not wearing a bra, since you can't tell under my hoodie. Sooooo much more comfortable. 

[Arcadia]

Oh god yes. I can hardly wait for winter.

[Artemis]

I’ve been needing a new sweater/jacket for the cold weather, and decided to purchase one online.  I chose it mostly for the color, because I’ve been searching for one in that color for so long, and it’s been very difficult to find.  It arrived today, and of course, the real color is nothing like it appeared in the picture.  Buying online is a risk and almost never works out the way I hope it will, I should have known better.  Now I need to decide whether to pay the shipping to return it, or just keep it and deal with the color I got.

 

[Pseudonym]

I buy pretty much all my clothes online, but I usually check there are free returns since you never quite know. 

[Pseudonym]

I'm doing a simplified version of one of my modules as an access course, and it tells me that this man was the best environmental scientist of his age. I assume that when I graduate I too shall look like this.