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Carol the Dabbler

The Political Thread

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18 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

... depends on majority and beliefs of that said state. Isn't it scary?

Seems to me that in general it's a good thing for a law to represent the beliefs of the populace.  Of course not everyone agrees, so "majority rules" is probably the best we can do.

Otherwise, who is it that gets to decide what the laws will be, and gets to impose them on everyone else?

My point regarding the EU was that it's about the same size as the US.  Of course our states don't differ as much as the European countries do, but there are definitely regional differences here, so of course the laws will differ.

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Also, it's not always as easy as it might seem to just go to another state. Say you want an abortion, but you have to go to another state to get it … can you afford to get there? Can you get enough time off from work to travel? Etc. It's a big country, especially out west. 

But yes, regional differences can end up being discriminatory … as recently as the late '70's, it was still illegal for persons of different races to be married in North Carolina. I remember, because I had a bit of a crush on a black friend (I'm white) and someone made a point of telling me this …  because she disapproved of my crush. I frankly didn't see any reason for her prejudice, no matter how widely it was shared by the general population of that state, to dictate who I could or couldn't marry. So in that sense, yes, it can be scary when the laws represent the beliefs of the local population. 

By that time, however, the population was becoming more accepting of mixed-race marriages, so the law wasn't enforced any more. But does that make it okay that it was law in the first place? Not to my way of thinking. And it took the federal courts to break up a lot of that kind of thing. Which is why we have them.

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Going back to the abortion topic, isn't Alabama going to make travelling to another state to get an abortion illegal?

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7 hours ago, Arcadia said:

... as recently as the late '70's, it was still illegal for persons of different races to be married in North Carolina.  [....]

By that time, however, the population was becoming more accepting of mixed-race marriages, so the law wasn't enforced any more. But does that make it okay that it was law in the first place? Not to my way of thinking. And it took the federal courts to break up a lot of that kind of thing. Which is why we have them.

I have no idea when the NC law stopped being enforced, but it was invalidated by the US Supreme Court in 1967, on the grounds that it violated two separate sections of the US Constitution.  So not only was it no longer being enforced in the late 70's, it could not have been enforced then.

I have no quarrel with state or local laws being overturned if they are in conflict with the US Constitution.  As you say, that's why the federal courts exist.

It's worth noting, however, that an earlier (1883) Supreme Court decision had ruled that such laws were permissible, based on exactly the same Constitution.  What had changed in the meantime was public opinion.  It's presumably no coincidence that by the 1960's, interracial marriage was not only becoming more acceptable to Americans in general (about 20%), it was by then approved of by about half of American blacks [source].

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4 hours ago, Fantasy Lover said:

Going back to the abortion topic, isn't Alabama going to make travelling to another state to get an abortion illegal?

I'm not sure how they could enforce that, unless the other state (where such abortions are legal) were to cooperate, which I seriously doubt that they would do.  Nor am I sure that the Supreme Court would uphold such a law.  If the state legislature passes that bill, it may take a while to see how it fares in actual use.

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3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I have no idea when the NC law stopped being enforced, but it was invalidated by the US Supreme Court in 1967, on the grounds that it violated two separate sections of the US Constitution.  So not only was it no longer being enforced in the late 70's, it could not have been enforced then.

I have no quarrel with state or local laws being overturned if they are in conflict with the US Constitution.  As you say, that's why the federal courts exist.

It's worth noting, however, that an earlier (1883) Supreme Court decision had ruled that such laws were permissible, based on exactly the same Constitution.  What had changed in the meantime was public opinion.  It's presumably no coincidence that by the 1960's, interracial marriage was not only becoming more acceptable to Americans in general (about 20%), it was by then approved of by about half of American blacks [source].

This is evidently what the person who told me it was still law was thinking of:

(The 1875 interracial marriage ban remained part of our state charter until a new constitution was adopted in 1971; though the U.S. Supreme Court famously invalidated anti-miscegenation laws in the 1967 decision, Loving v. Virginia.) source

The amendment one referred to in that article was evidently N.C.'s attempt to ban same sex marriage (also approved by the majority of its voting citizens) … also overturned by the federal courts. Wonder if they've learned anything yet.... :D 

Speaking of Loving v. Virginia … wasn't there a movie about that recently? Or coming out soon? Seems like I saw an ad for one not too long ago. Or maybe it was a TV movie (do they still make such things?) Something....

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That Wikipedia page mentioned some dramatic adaptations of the Loving story, but that's all I know.  Have not seen any of them.

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OK, the main movie seems to be Loving, which came out in late 2016.  It was well received and highly rated.  Should be worth watching.

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Huh. I could have sworn the ad I saw was more recent than that. Time flies, I guess.

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Here's the scoop from Wikipedia:

The story of the Lovings became the basis of several films:

You may be thinking of last year's four-parter.

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I don't think so, the third one sounds more like what I'm thinking of. I think time's just gotten away from me. :( 

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I can't think of anything else that is more gender specific than abortion actually. I know it had been brought up about how inappropriate that men decide about this matter for women, although it is eventually approved by a woman as well (sorry the tittle, committee or whatever escape me, and I don't bother to find out).

What do you guys think? I know there are a lot of laws decided by 'others'. Ah well, I'm just curious. This could be way too dangerous to discuss.

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I'm not sure how they could enforce that, unless the other state (where such abortions are legal) were to cooperate, which I seriously doubt that they would do.  Nor am I sure that the Supreme Court would uphold such a law.  If the state legislature passes that bill, it may take a while to see how it fares in actual use.
Wouldn't it also violate doctor patient confidently?

I can't think of anything else that is more gender specific than abortion actually. I know it had been brought up about how inappropriate that men decide about this matter for women, although it is eventually approved by a woman as well (sorry the tittle, committee or whatever escape me, and I don't bother to find out). What do you guys think? I know there are a lot of laws decided by 'others'. Ah well, I'm just curious. This could be way too dangerous to discuss.
I think it was governor Kay Ivey who signed the bill. As for your question, I agree with that the fact that it is inappropriate for men to make decisions about reproductive rights of women.

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Yes I think so too.

Sigh, news are grim, aren't they?

To lighten up, I actually read an article in science-based news that scientists actually comparing the growth in godzilla size to real life situation. It's weird, but I actually think they have a point! XD

Also, why can't countries have 'peaceful' dispute just like Canada and Denmark over Hans Island, where each side come every couple of months, plant its flag and leave some booze for the other side. Hopefully nothing has changed.

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I had never heard of Hans Island before, but the flag and booze story seems to be more or less true.  It's in that Wikipedia article just above the photo in History and Border Dispute.  (See also Google Fight a bit further down.)

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