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Carol the Dabbler

The Political Thread

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Yeah, but all that grousing about "I can't get oxygen behind this mask" and whatnot ... :rolleyes: I mean, surgeons wear those for hours at a time and have done for ages, and I agree they can be difficult to deal with, but I still rather doubt that they're all zombies because they've suffocated at some point. Worst that can happen with a mask is that you look slightly goofy and feel slightly uncomfortable. I'd take that over possibly infecting someone unwittingly any day, but apparently some people were never taught manners. :huh:

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2 hours ago, Caya said:

... all that grousing about "I can't get oxygen behind this mask" and whatnot ...

Most people had never worn that sort of mask before, and it does feel weird if you're not used to it (perhaps because of the increased warmth, humidity, and CO2 inside the mask?).  So it triggers a panicky feeling, or at least it sure did in me.  Like you, I figure if surgeons and nurses can wear masks while performing some rather intricate tasks, there mustn't be any great danger involved.  But many people trust their feelings more than they trust logic, and that sometimes includes me.  Human nature and all that.

 

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Yeah, but I feel pretty confident you do not express your feelings like this:

Folks like her were what I meant by never been taught manners.

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3 hours ago, Caya said:

Folks like her were what I meant by never been taught manners.

If she's telling the truth about having some sort of breathing problem such that her doctor advised her not to wear a mask, then I can sympathize with her, and I can also understand why she felt ganged-up-on by the employees (or were they other customers?) who told her she was required to wear one anyhow.  I do agree with you that she could have shown more restraint -- but then again I've had one or two low-blood-sugar moments where I was probably no more civil than that, so who am I to judge?

 

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I moved my mum into a nursing house last week: sorted clothes with her, put all her stuff into place, built a shelf and moved stuff around the room. All with a mask on (the so called paper mask). For a whole beeping day of ca. 30 Celsius heat. You can get used to it and forget you have it on your face - I realized it as I was already driving. :)

But maybe you have to get used to it, the first few times were indeed a bit weird. There are people with problems that cannot wear a mask, but the rest is just whining.

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Plus some people are scared by anything new.

How's your mother doing in her new home so far?  I hope she likes it and does well there.

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I have no idea how to embed non-YouTube video but you can just click on this link/copy to your browser. (thanks if anyone can help)

https://streamable.com/e/sba3ag

 

23 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

If she's telling the truth about having some sort of breathing problem such that her doctor advised her not to wear a mask, ...

It's probably not much, but based on my experience dealing with shitty people all my life, no, 99% of these people make false claims.

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On 7/11/2020 at 10:21 PM, T.o.b.y said:

It's actually not painful at all! I hardly notice my mask any more unless my nose itches or something. 

Good to know, i have been thinking about it.

It always leave red marks on my nose and ears, but then again, we have agreed that my nose is always a problem.

 

I think what makes me so pissed beside these irresponsible idiots throwing tantrum is there are actually people being killed for trying to enforce mask rule, even when they do it because it is required by their jobs. At the very least I have read about security guard shot and killed over mask, and recently, a bus driver attacked by passenger that resulted in death because of mask. Can you imagine being the family of this people, the cause of death of their loved ones??? It's sooo.. I can't put it into words. I can't.. the logic, it's too tragic. If only there is a way to put all these people isolated in an island together and let them hug and kiss and breed.  Nevermind the breeding, they won't have enough intelligent to escape from the island anyway and contaminate the gene pool.

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2 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

there are actually people being killed for trying to enforce mask rule, even when they do it because it is required by their jobs.


Sadly, I don't doubt it.  But the reason we hear about these incidents is that there aren't very many of them.  Unfortunately there will always be buttheads, and right now they have one more thing to be hostile about.  But most people are decent.

 

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Honestly, I sometimes wish that people who really, really don't want to wear a mask didn't have to. 

Before you write me off a crazy, hear me out: over the last few months, I have seen so many variations on "how to turn your face mask into a biohazard" that I seriously think it would be safer to just let certain people go without. 

And often, I get the impression that it's not even ignorance so much as spite. "You're forcing me to wear this thing? Fine, I'll keep it in my a** pocket for weeks on end, never wash / replace it, if it's disposable I will not dispose of it until it's totally disintegrated. I will also constantly fiddle with it, pull it up and down, take it on and off and never wash / sanitize my hands after contact with the thing. Most of the time, I'll let my nose hang out anyway. You happy now? Huh, huh, HUH?!???"

:picard2:

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Exactly this (about those childish defiance)

But
If they breed germs on their masks it's THEIR problem. While not using them is a problem of everyone else.

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38 minutes ago, J.P. said:

Exactly this (about those childish defiance)

But
If they breed germs on their masks it's THEIR problem. While not using them is a problem of everyone else.

Yeah, but I am worried that those germs get spread around... Adult Teenagerbrain touches their mask and then the food that I buy, the door I need to open, etc. 

I am usually not paranoid about germs at all (hey, I work with them so to speak). But I do think that's kind of icky. 

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3 hours ago, T.o.b.y said:

Honestly, I sometimes wish that people who really, really don't want to wear a mask didn't have to. 

Before you write me off a crazy, hear me out: over the last few months, I have seen so many variations on "how to turn your face mask into a biohazard" that I seriously think it would be safer to just let certain people go without.


It would also avoid confrontations, where a non-mask-wearing person is screaming (or even spitting) at the would-be enforcers, quite possibly spraying germs on them.  (And that's not even counting the few who physically attack the enforcers.)  Is that really better than just letting them peacefully do their shopping?  Is it really worth it, just to increase compliance from most people to absolutely everyone?

Our grocery store has a sign prominently displayed in the entrance that says "Face masks requested," and most people (including all the employees) do comply -- and of course you can social-distance the heck out of anyone who doesn't.  This is fully consistent with the current Indiana order that customers be "encouraged" to wear masks, so if I owned a store, I think it's the way I'd handle it.

Some situations are different, though, such as doctors' offices and public transportation, and I believe the government orders reflect that.  I'm not sure what to say about those.

  

1 hour ago, T.o.b.y said:

I am worried that those germs get spread around... Adult Teenagerbrain touches their mask and then the food that I buy, the door I need to open, etc.


And it's not just the people with grungy masks, it's anybody who has rubbed their eyes or blown their nose since they last washed their hands, regardless of whether they're wearing a mask.  That's why Alex and I treat everything we bring into the house as contaminated -- groceries, mail, deliveries, and so on.  We put it in quarantine, then wash our hands before touching door knobs or anything, and don't touch the new stuff again for 24 hours, by which time paper and cardboard items should be safe.

 

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8 hours ago, J.P. said:

But
If they breed germs on their masks it's THEIR problem. While not using them is a problem of everyone else.

Exactly. 

I am not sorry that I have little to no patience for people who put others in harmful situation. You would think that during worldwide pandemic, people die doing their jobs, the very least you could do is to put a mask on. I think there is seriously something missing about lacking of perspectives in here, people taking things for granted, especially idiots who live in their own close-minded world. There are people with minimum wage doing more than usual because they are essential, yet they have to put up all this shit, there are many people who don't actually have access to sanitation in this time, there are people who never experience actual 'personal freedom' of safety, comfort, and live in fear daily because of wars and human right violation, and yet here these people are b*tching about wearing mask and personal freedom. It doesn't help that idiot is their role model.

6 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

It would also avoid confrontations, where a non-mask-wearing person is screaming (or even spitting) at the would-be enforcers, quite possibly spraying germs on them.  (And that's not even counting the few who physically attack the enforcers.)  Is that really better than just letting them peacefully do their shopping?  Is it really worth it, just to increase compliance from most people to absolutely everyone?

Yes. I would say the concept is pretty similar, and simple enough. if we want to be part of society, we should try not to harm others. If we want to go somewhere, we should observe what they are practising, if not, get out.

The same principles work for assaults and murders. We won't let them just because it's probably not worth it to confront them. The same effort should be required from everyone if everyone wants it to get better. The comparison might seem laughable, so does the comparison of what kind of effort actually required from this people, which seems too much to ask. We want everything to open, we want the economy to get back to normal, we want the curve to flatten, what??? wearing a mask you said, NO, it's too much! I'd rather attend rallies and parties.

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1 hour ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

if we want to be part of society, we should try not to harm others. If we want to go somewhere, we should observe what they are practising, if not, get out.


Let me clarify what I should have said.  Here in Indiana, for example, things never were as bad as in places like New York City, and the situation has already improved considerably, so the government is currently requiring only that stores "encourage" people to wear masks (and most people are complying), which seems good enough to me.  Basically, I don't see the point of businesses being stricter than their government is requiring.

But in situations (such as public transportation or medical facilities) where I believe even Indiana is *requiring* masks, or in localities where things are still really bad and the government is *requiring* people to wear masks whenever they're in public, then I agree with you.  I didn't mean to encourage anyone to ignore their government's COVID regulations, which seem to be there for a good reason (or at least a best guess).

 

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If she's telling the truth about having some sort of breathing problem such that her doctor advised her not to wear a mask, then I can sympathize with her, and I can also understand why she felt ganged-up-on by the employees (or were they other customers?) who told her she was required to wear one anyhow.  I do agree with you that she could have shown more restraint -- but then again I've had one or two low-blood-sugar moments where I was probably no more civil than that, so who am I to judge?
IDK man, I've seen several posts on Facebook of people who have anxiety and asthma and they still wear a mask.

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As an American, I'm embarrassed every time he opens his mouth. And he just seems to be getting worse, saying some of the most bizarre things more and more frequently. I'm hoping that we come to our senses and vote him out in November.

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3 hours ago, kimber8ada said:

I'm hoping that we come to our senses and vote him out in November.

That would be a lot more likely if the Democrats had nominated a more electable ticket.  Between Biden's mean-spirited personality and his recent  memory problems, and Harris's far-left politics, they've got a problem as regards the independent voters, perhaps leaving Trump in the role of "better the devil we know than the devil we don't know."

In other words, it's gonna be another "hold your nose while you vote" election.

 

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Er, as a European, calling Kamala Harris's politics far-left honestly made me blink in bafflement for a moment (then again, my favourite VP pick would've been Elizabeth Warren). And anyone calling Joe Biden mean-spirited should watch this:

 

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1 hour ago, Caya said:

calling Kamala Harris's politics far-left honestly made me blink

Let's just say she's right near the top of the current crop of Senators in that regard, and therefore presumably in a high percentile of Americans overall.  We're not Europeans.

1 hour ago, Caya said:

anyone calling Joe Biden mean-spirited should watch this

I didn't mean to imply that the man has no heart.  I was specifically referring to his apparent inability to conduct a civil debate (back when he was a VP candidate).  It makes me wonder how he'd ever manage to conduct negotiations with foreign heads of state.

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Here in Indiana, for example, things never were as bad as in places like New York City, and the situation has already improved considerably, so the government is currently requiring only that stores "encourage" people to wear masks (and most people are complying), which seems good enough to me.  Basically, I don't see the point of businesses being stricter than their government is requiring.

But in situations (such as public transportation or medical facilities) where I believe even Indiana is *requiring* masks, or in localities where things are still really bad and the government is *requiring* people to wear masks whenever they're in public, then I agree with you.  I didn't mean to encourage anyone to ignore their government's COVID regulations, which seem to be there for a good reason (or at least a best guess.)

 

Carol,  since you wrote this on July 14th, things have changed for the worse, haven't they?  Indiana is one of the states the CDC and Dr. Fauci have singled out as having concerning spikes in infection rates.  For that, I imagine you can thank all the college kids in Bloomington and South Bend and Indianapolis. 

Across the border  here in Ohio, we have been on a statewide mask mandate since early August.  My county had gone to a Red Level alert and had been under a mask order for about 2 weeks earlier.  I work in a public library and we have been wearing masks here all day, every day since May 6th when we returned to the building, as staff & for the public since June 22nd, when we reopened our doors.  That was by the directive of our board of trustees and director.  We've had some pushback by anti-mask patrons but not very bad.   The county is making cloth masks available for free at local businesses and we've received a box of some 2000+ and before that we were passing out free paper ones as needed.

Here's what a state-wide mask mandate looks like in reality:  Businesses are required to post signage about masks and distancing and they do; if a customer chooses to ignore the sign and enter the business anyway, mostly they are not be confronted and asked to leave by management, who are unwilling to subject themselves to violence over this issue.  A mask mandate does not have the force of law *for the citizens*.  The governor has created a task force that goes around the state investigating complaints and issuing citations against businesses in violation of the Covid protocols.  This escalates from warnings to heavy fines to potential revocation of operating licenses.  So the ones receiving penalties will not be the customers but the businesses who do not compel compliance.

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10 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

  It makes me wonder how he'd ever manage to conduct negotiations with foreign heads of state.

Umm, our deputy major put this on Twitter today:

It's theoretically possible that Biden might do worse than Trump, I guess, but to me at least, it's rather hard to imagine how anyone could pull that off.

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14 minutes ago, Hikari said:

Carol,  since you wrote this on July 14th, things have changed for the worse, haven't they? 

I'm not sure of the statistics, so for all I know we're just being more cautious, but yes, we are now required (rather than merely encouraged) to wear masks in stores and other public places.  I haven't witnessed any confrontations in that regard.

Wal-Mart, which had laid off its retirement-age "greeters" a few years back, now has what may well be the same people standing by the door again, but now saying "Thank you for wearing your masks."

 

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8 hours ago, Caya said:

It's theoretically possible that Biden might do worse than Trump, I guess, but to me at least, it's rather hard to imagine how anyone could pull that off.

To me, there's a significant difference between being mistaken about one's facts (easily rectified by one's aides and/or by Austrian deputy mayors ;) ) and being blatantly uncivil to people who don't agree with you.  How are you ever going to reach an agreement with them?

 

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