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Carol the Dabbler

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I have said from Day 1 that Trump is a clueless jerk.  And you're quite right, he doesn't hesitate to describe people he disagrees with in very unflattering terms, but I have the impression that it's generally said about them, rather than to them.

I was scarred for life by the 2012 VP debates:  Ryan held his ground, but he was civil, while Biden was venomous.  (That's in addition to me being less comfortable with Biden's politics.  And at this point, considering the unknown state of his health, Harris really scares me.)

I will admit that I did not watch the 2016 debates -- I already knew I wouldn't vote for either Trump or Hillary, so why put myself through it?  So I don't actually know how Trump comports himself in face-to-face debates.  I guess I'll find out next month.  But I seriously doubt that I'll come away from the debates with a better impression of Biden.

I'm also planning to watch the VP debate (there'll be only one, unfortunately).  I hope / suspect that Pence and Harris will stick a bit closer to the actual issues, so there should be more information and fewer fireworks.  Again, we'll see.

 

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I'm with Caya on this. No one is any more mean or petty than Trump. I'm not worried about Biden's health. He's not much older than Trump and has shown he's more physically fit. Any issues with his mental ability is mostly spread by Trump and his supporters. He misspeaks but so does everyone occasionally. He has dealt with a stutter his entire life and sometimes searches for words whereas Trump runs off at the mouth voicing whatever ridiculous thing pops into his mind. From what I've seen Trump isn't well liked or respected by our allies, many of which he's alienated. Biden has apparently good relationships with other countries and was in charge of several important deals as vice-president. I have confidence that he will handle the pandemic much better than the present administration. Sorry for the rant but I fell Trump has been a disaster for our country and cannot fathom, and don't want to, what will happen if he is re-elected.

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2 hours ago, kimber8ada said:

cannot fathom, and don't want to, what will happen if he is re-elected.

That's roughly how I feel about Biden and Harris.  But regardless of who's sitting in the Oval Office come January, I suspect the country will survive.

 

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2 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's roughly how I feel about Biden and Harris.  But regardless of who's sitting in the Oval Office come January, I suspect the country will survive.

 

I was 8 years old when Nixon resigned due to the Watergate scandal.  I remember my dad having the TV on and watching the Presidential helicopter lift off from the White House lawn.  I didn't fully comprehend what was happening, but I knew from the atmosphere that it was very grave.

Trump has done a number of things far worse than Watergate, without repercussions.  Had the Senate not voted down straight partisan lines, he would have been impeached.  He has done far worse things than lying about getting sexual favors from an intern . . but so did Bill--and his wife.   At this level of national politics, I believe all hands are dirty to some extent because one simply cannot gain the powerful base of party and financial support one needs to mount a Presidential race without making some unsavory bedfellows.   The nastiness of Presidential politics reared its ugly head in the *very first* contested election--who would succeed General Washington.  Human beings were ever thus.  I do think that the best man prevailed quite a few times in our history, and some of those faces now adorn Mt. Rushmore.  The choice before us this year is the most unpalatable one American voters have ever had to make, I think.  Certainly the most unpalatable of my lifetime.  I cast my first vote at 18 for Mr. Reagan while I was still in high school.  

John Kasich, my former state governor who competed against Trump for the Republican nomination has publicly endorsed Joe Biden, along with a number of other high-profile Republicans.  This must be nearly unprecedented.  Biden has stated that if elected, he would consider himself a 'placeholder President.'  Not exactly a ringing endorsement of himself as a candidate, but whatever his frailties at the age of 77, at least he is not personality disordered like the current occupant.  DT meets all the markers for malignant Narcissism and is incapable of change; this is how he was wired in early childhood and there's no undoing it.  I have a very strong hunch that the Democrats plan to have Mr. Biden step down after a year citing 'health reasons', thereby installing their real choice--the ultra-liberal black woman, Sen. Harris.  This is what my gut is telling me.  If not that, then Biden would almost certainly step down after one term and Harris would run for President after her four-year 'audition' as VP.    I am not opposed to having a female minority President--I just don't want it to happen via backdoor methods that subvert the electorate & the spirit, if not the letter, of the Constitution.  That could damage female candidates' chances for decades to come.  That would be extremely sneaky . . and I don't rule out the Dems doing precisely that.  

Mr. Obama has publicly supported his former VP, but there's an anecdote going around that attributes him as saying privately that "Joe is going to (bleep) it up."  

My absentee ballot has been duly requested and should be on its way to me soon.  Never have I dreaded a task more than I do filling it out this year.  

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Don't I know that feeling. *sigh* Our municipal elections are coming up, my absentee ballot arrived two days ago and has been lying around since, waiting for me to hold my nose and cast my note. I've been thinking wistfully of voting for the Beer Party (yes, they exist) and I don't even drink beer.

Still, considering the US elections from an outsider's perspective, well I saw this today and had to think of you, @Carol the Dabbler ;)

HWjsNsH.jpg

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Caya,

Love the campaign sticker!  I think a lot of people are feeling that way this year.

DT has become our worst-case scenario in the Oval Office.  I took a gamble on him four years ago because at that time he seemed like the better of the two options.  I will never vote for a Clinton as long as I draw breath, and I regard HRC as more malign than her husband.  DT was the outlier, but I thought, why not let a successful businessman become CEO of America for a spell?  I thought he'd know how to run a meeting, at least, and he had promised (lying, as it turns out) that he had a gift for surrounding  himself with good people and said he would take advice.  His status as a Washington outsider was his biggest draw.  I watched him for a few years on his NBC vanity project, The Apprentice, where he actually had impressed me during the boardroom portions with an air of executive authority.  The contestants got nasty with one another, but he never got nasty, or devolved into the petty name-calling that has marked his Presidency.  He was more Presidential presiding over a fake boardroom set than he has been since assuming office.  He's always been an egotistical self-promoter with a 'colorful'  history with women. But those describe a great many, if not the majority, of career politicians.  Nobody ever rose high in national politics by being a shrinking violet with a self-confidence problem. and I assumed that there had to be some leadership qualities in there somewhere.  Candidate Trump still had the advantage of perceived potential, but his deterioration into a malignant loose cannon has been frightening to watch.  I think there is definite brain disease going on there.  Donald does not touch alcohol so it's something more organic.  He's getting worse with every passing day.  My friend who is an occupational therapist for brain trauma patients says she's convinced he's exhibiting a form of dementia.

My mother has requested her ballot as well and says that she is going to leave the President bubble blank.  There are other issues besides this one to vote on, but as tempting as that option sounds, I feel obligated to pick one.  No matter what I do, I am not going to feel good afterwards.

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5 hours ago, Hikari said:

I will never vote for a Clinton as long as I draw breath, and I regard HRC as more malign than her husband.

Ol' Bill is starting to look pretty good to me, if only by comparison to our current choices.  Call it nostalgia.

5 hours ago, Hikari said:

My mother has requested her ballot as well and says that she is going to leave the President bubble blank.  [....] but as tempting as that option sounds, I feel obligated to pick one.  No matter what I do, I am not going to feel good afterwards.

Me too, and me neither.

*sigh*  I hate politics.

 

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9 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

*sigh*  I hate politics.

Ditto.

Am I the only one who feels that things are actually kind of, like... the same as they've always been?  I mean, props to Solomon (or whoever authored Ecclesiastes), because "There is nothing new under the sun" is one of the truest statements I've ever read in my life.  The longer I live and the more history I learn, the more I realize that things just ebb and flow in cycles.  Politics are politics are politics.  People are frantic because they're having holes poked in their illusions of personal control over the world, and I think it would do us all well to just take a breath and remember that life goes on.  And limit your exposure to news for a time, seriously.  'Mean World Syndrome' is a thing and it's affecting us all right now on a massive scale, far more than it should be, due to ease of access to global news.

The guilt around voting peeves me.  I've never had any compunctions about voting third party when I like a third-party candidate best, in spite of the assertion that it's a throwaway vote.  If everyone would quit thinking like that, maybe we'd have more than two options.  I'll vote my conscience and feel just fine about it, or I won't vote at all (and feel a little less fine, because I think voting is a privilege).  I don't feel the need to vote for someone I don't like simply to unseat someone else I don't like, and I won't be pressured into doing so.  The media representing Trump as if he's the epitome of all evil is giving the man way, waaay too much credit.  He's just a man.  We have a two-term limit for a reason.  In four years (if not this year) we'll have some other rubbish politician in office; America will survive and the world will keep on spinnin'.

 

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Dunno, I look around and the world has changed so much in the half-century that I've been around, and not always for the better. Granted, technology plays the biggest part in it, but ... I talked to a bunch of nineteen-year-old colleagues last year, and when I spoke of my teen years, it was, to them, like telling of the Roman Empire. And while I sure would've liked having Internet back then too, there were some freedoms I took totally for granted that were almost unthinkable to their generation. Like, I told them, when I said to my mom at sixteen that I would take the bus downtown to go shopping, she had to take me at my word, because there were no cell phones, almost no security cams, and if there was anything she wanted to tell me she would just have to wait till I returned. I could have been anywhere and done god knows what and unless I'd have overdone it and ended up in the news, nobody would've been the wiser - okay, for the most part I just ended up at my favourite bookshop with a cup of tea and a new doorstopper anyway (that place had a teahouse too, which is why I loved it so much), I was a boring nerd teen and not the rebel type, but dammit I *could* have and that was a great feeling. :lol: 

Also, growing up in the 70s I remember things getting slowly but surely better, like workers' hours getting reduced a little every couple years and wages still rising, people being employed by the same place for decades, and actually able to buy plots of land and build houses for their families with workers' wages. If you had asked anyone back then, they'd have told you that by 2020, we'd probably just work for like ten hours a week, otherwise getting waited on by our personal robots, then jetting over to Mars for the weekend. And I look back and think, when did it all start to go wrong? I have a vague feeling that the 80s are the culprit there, but still, little by little we all allowed some freedoms to be taken away and stopped fighting for more rights and equality, and now the world is so much less than we imagined it would be. :(

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1 hour ago, Caya said:

I talked to a bunch of nineteen-year-old colleagues last year, and when I spoke of my teen years, it was, to them, like telling of the Roman Empire.

I understand completely.  I work with a 24-year old.  Sweet girl; she has never seen any of the movies that I watched throughout my 1980s youth.  She and her equally young pal go on about stars they like.  To me, Tom Holland looks like he could be in the 7th grade.  My music may as well have come from the Big Band era.  I feel young(ish) . . until I'm around her and remember that I'm the same age as her mom.

Politics have always been contentious, but there's always been, at least until now, a shared, if mostly unspoken agreement about what constitutes "Presidential"--or leadership at the highest level,  behavior.  Compulsive tweeting in the the middle of the night and calling military heroes 'losers' for getting captured or killed in battle are definitely not it.

I don't know that I blame the 1980s.  I think the blame lies in the rise of the Internet and digital culture.  It has certainly enabled incivility as pretty much the default at every level of society.  Anonymity breeds incivility.  Incivility begets violence.  And just in general, ignorance is off the charts.  Our intellectual discipline has gone down the toilet along with our compassion and our manners.  The 24-hour cable news cycle and the Internet had a big hand in this too.  And smartphones.  Technology is becoming our destruction.  Rather than it serving us, we serve it.

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17 hours ago, Artemis said:

And limit your exposure to news for a time, seriously.  'Mean World Syndrome' is a thing and it's affecting us all right now on a massive scale, far more than it should be, due to ease of access to global news.

I agree with nearly everything you said, Artemis, and I'd like to add something here that was recently pointed out to me by a sociology professor -- namely that the news I read isn't necessarily the news you read, and CNN vs Fox is just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm talking mostly about Google, newsfeeds, and social media, because they're so insidious, because we trust them.  Google (and therefore Google News, and presumably other newsfeeds as well) keeps track of what sort of things you've been reading, so they can show you more of the same, because they assume that's all you care about.  Plus a lot of people live in their own cozy corner of the internet where everyone agrees with them, and then they assume that anyone who disagrees must be a really horrible person, because NOBODY thinks THAT!!!

We have become so insulated that the very idea that people of good will can disagree is being lost.  We no longer look for a mutually-agreeable solution to a problem, we simply dig in and yell louder.  This may be a major reason for politics becoming so hostile -- and come to think of it, I started noticing the hostility right around the time the internet became a major factor in our lives.

16 hours ago, Caya said:

I look around and the world has changed so much in the half-century that I've been around, and not always for the better. Granted, technology plays the biggest part in it, but ...

Quite true, there have been some huge technological changes just in the past, say, thirty years, which I think are largely responsible for most of the changes you mention in your post.

16 hours ago, Caya said:

growing up in the 70s I remember things getting slowly but surely better, like [....] wages still rising....

Here in the US, at least, there was an unusually high rate of inflation in the late 70's and early 80's -- meaning that companies had to keep raising their employees' wages just to keep them at the same standard of living.  Since one country's economy tends to influence other countries' economies, the same was probably true, to one extent or another, in Austria, in which case the rising wages you noticed would have been basically an illusion.

16 hours ago, Caya said:

If you had asked anyone back then, they'd have told you that by 2020, we'd probably just work for like ten hours a week, otherwise getting waited on by our personal robots, then jetting over to Mars for the weekend. And I look back and think, when did it all start to go wrong?

I assume you're not really claiming that if we aren't yet vacationing on Mars, something must be wrong?   ;)

In my own experience as a software engineer, I had only so many hours of good work in me, and if the company wanted me to work more hours per day, I could be physically present, but I couldn't guarantee the quality of my work.  Jobs have on average become more mentally demanding over the past few decades, which may explain the decrease you mention in typical hours per week.

But there's only so far that can go.  With, say 30 employees working 40 hours per week, a company is paying benefits to 30 people, whereas if the employees work only 30 hours, the company would need about 40 employees, meaning a 33% increase in the money spent on employee benefits.  If you extrapolate to a 10-hour work week, not only would the company be paying benefits to something like 120 employees, those people would be spending a significant portion of their "working" hours just going through their shift changes.  That is, of course, assuming that nothing else has changed.

But the above is complicated by the "robots" you mentioned.  A lot of jobs are being automated these days.  For example, the garbage truck that serves our neighborhood used to have one driver plus two guys who'd dump the contents of people's trash cans into the truck.  Nowadays, the truck has just the driver, plus an arm on the back that reaches out, picks up the cans, and dumps them, all without the driver leaving the cab.  That means a substantial cut in the number of people employed by the trash service, but at the same time more jobs in the company that makes the automated arms.

People have traditionally been very bad at envisioning the future.  (We still don't have those flying cars.)  There are bound to be substantial technological changes yet to come, which will impact our way of life in ways we cannot now even imagine.  We won't know what they are till they get here, and then we'll just have to deal with them the best we can -- which is pretty much how life has always been.

14 hours ago, Hikari said:

I think the blame lies in the rise of the Internet and digital culture.  It has certainly enabled incivility as pretty much the default at every level of society.  Anonymity breeds incivility.  Incivility begets violence.  And just in general, ignorance is off the charts.  Our intellectual discipline has gone down the toilet along with our compassion and our manners.  The 24-hour cable news cycle and the Internet had a big hand in this too.  And smartphones.  Technology is becoming our destruction.  Rather than it serving us, we serve it.

I see what you mean, and agree to some extent.  But there's always been incivility and violence, it's just changed its habitat.  There have always been civility and gentleness as well, but they've tended to draw less and less attention as the decades and the centuries go by.  With today's instant worldwide communications, anyone who makes a point of following the news will have incivility and violence in their face on a daily basis, because that's what the news purveyors emphasize, and today they've got a whole planet to harvest it from.  (That's one reason I generally avoid the news -- enough of it finds me anyhow.)

Going back as least as far as the ancient Greeks, people of a certain age have been horrified by how much things have changed during their lifetime -- even though if we look back even a century or two, we can see great improvements.  I suspect that things are generally neither as bad as we think nor as good as we'd like.  One does what one can.  As for the rest, I think it makes sense to tend to one's own garden.

 

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1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

CNN vs Fox is just the tip of the iceberg.  I'm talking mostly about Google, newsfeeds, and social media, because they're so insidious, because we trust them.

Yep.  My dad has news apps on his phone that send pop-up notifications of the latest headlines to his lock screen.  Google, Yahoo, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, et. al., apps and ads... we are absolutely inundated with news.  And we should absolutely not be giving it our automatic trust.  Journalism is a business, it skews and spins stories because sensationalism sells.  We need to be reading everything with a critical eye.

One of my relatives on Facebook posts almost nothing except stories and pictures of animal abuse.  I had to unfollow her, but that doesn't mean I don't care about animal cruelty.  I care a lot, it's one of the causes I'm most passionate about.  Sure I could sit and stare at pictures of hurt puppies all day long for the sake of being "informed", but what good does it do to be feeling sad and helpless all the time?  I donate to rescues, I take good care of my own animals; I do what I can do, and try not to agonize over what I can't.  It's not healthy, and we need to be tailoring our exposure to things that make us anxious or angry without purpose.

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

We have become so insulated that the very idea that people of good will can disagree is being lost.

I think that is a huge part of the problem.

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Going back as least as far as the ancient Greeks, people of a certain age have been horrified by how much things have changed during their lifetime -- even though if we look back even a century or two, we can see great improvements.  I suspect that things are generally neither as bad as we think nor as good as we'd like.  One does what one can.  As for the rest, I think it makes sense to tend to one's own garden.

g1Qf.gif

 

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16 hours ago, Hikari said:

calling military heroes 'losers' for getting captured or killed in battle

Did he actually say that?  I mean, do we know that he did?  I had to do some Googling ('cause I hadn't heard the details of that story), and there are plenty of articles about it, repeating the same thing; but so far the only sources I can find for that claim are virtually anonymous.  Then there was this article from the Trump website: "21 officials, 14 from Paris trip, now on record refuting anonymous sources in false The Atlantic story."

To be honest it sounds to me like a bunch of hearsay, without proof one way or the other.  Certainly nothing I'm ready to accept unquestioningly.  You may have info I don't have though; I'm just having a hard time finding anything concrete.

 

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I tend to judge people by their actions.

Not many people are total saints, but neither are they total devils.

So criticise and praise where appropriate.

On balance and obviously IMHO, Trump is the worse the US has had so far.

But then I don't live there and am not American, so possibly my views count for little.

The UK PM isn't much better.

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On 7/13/2020 at 12:13 PM, T.o.b.y said:

And often, I get the impression that it's not even ignorance so much as spite. "You're forcing me to wear this thing? Fine, I'll keep it in my a** pocket for weeks on end, never wash / replace it, if it's disposable I will not dispose of it until it's totally disintegrated. I will also constantly fiddle with it, pull it up and down, take it on and off and never wash / sanitize my hands after contact with the thing. Most of the time, I'll let my nose hang out anyway. You happy now? Huh, huh, HUH?!???"

I encounter that attitude a lot where I work.  When we set out the guestbook for signing, we now have two separate pen holders, one for "used" pens and one for pens that haven't been touched.  A few weeks back, an older gentleman loudly declared "I'm sick of this covid sh*t!" and deliberately grabbed a pen out of the "used" pens, just to express defiance.  We have to enforce the mask rule with guests and many of them will go out of their way to make it as painful as possible.

My dad has claustrophobia and claims he gets panicky with a mask on.  I too struggle with it a bit, because I have been gagged in the past and it brings up a similar feeling at random times.  Apart from that, it's a tolerable discomfort.  Though I can't say I'm happy about being dictated to.

Did anyone else see that study about the efficacy of cloth masks?  "Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%."  I thought that was rather an interesting result.  Calls into question the usefulness of the mask mandate, at least.

I know I'm way late to this discussion, but the "Karen" video phenomenon is starting to disturb me a little.  When did we decide that it's morally and socially acceptable to record private citizens on camera and post it online without their permission for the entire planet to ridicule?  I get that it can be entertaining to watch adult tantrums, but that just makes it all the more disturbing.  And to be honest, hassling, following and screaming at people who were minding their own business because they're not doing it the way you think they should be doing it seems almost as Kareny as the Karens being mocked.  I donno, it just gives me an icky feeling.  I'm not really okay with the idea of being recorded on principle, much less public shaming, especially on a global scale.

 

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Yes I am really not keen on individuals being held up as public whipping boys...

I often feel people are quite selective in their critiques.

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22 hours ago, Artemis said:

Ditto.

Am I the only one who feels that things are actually kind of, like... the same as they've always been?  I mean, props to Solomon (or whoever authored Ecclesiastes), because "There is nothing new under the sun" is one of the truest statements I've ever read in my life.  The longer I live and the more history I learn, the more I realize that things just ebb and flow in cycles.  Politics are politics are politics.  People are frantic because they're having holes poked in their illusions of personal control over the world, and I think it would do us all well to just take a breath and remember that life goes on.  And limit your exposure to news for a time, seriously.  'Mean World Syndrome' is a thing and it's affecting us all right now on a massive scale, far more than it should be, due to ease of access to global news.

The guilt around voting peeves me.  I've never had any compunctions about voting third party when I like a third-party candidate best, in spite of the assertion that it's a throwaway vote.  If everyone would quit thinking like that, maybe we'd have more than two options.  I'll vote my conscience and feel just fine about it, or I won't vote at all (and feel a little less fine, because I think voting is a privilege).  I don't feel the need to vote for someone I don't like simply to unseat someone else I don't like, and I won't be pressured into doing so.  The media representing Trump as if he's the epitome of all evil is giving the man way, waaay too much credit.  He's just a man.  We have a two-term limit for a reason.  In four years (if not this year) we'll have some other rubbish politician in office; America will survive and the world will keep on spinnin'.

 

It seems to me though that DT is unfortunately way worse than just a run of the mill "rubbish politician". 

Extreme individuals and parties like that cause great harm to our democratic systems imho because they're so polarizing that most of the nuance gets lost. It's no longer "hm, which of these options best represents my interests?" but "F***, must avoid getting THIS government (again) at all costs!" 

The danger is, to me, that all moderate positions from left to right get lumped together as one big "not extreme" block. 

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A sad reflection of modern times...

God forbid anybody should attempt a balanced, nuanced  personal view!

You just immediately get labelled and are therefore open to public ridicule.

So the moderates keep quiet.

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4 hours ago, Artemis said:
21 hours ago, Hikari said:

 

Did he actually say that?  I mean, do we know that he did?

I have heard what he said about John McCain.
I don't believe 100% he said those words, but I think it's quite possible.

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So Ruth Bader Ginsburg passed away, although I'm European I could tell she was beloved by Americans. I know her health was deteriorating, but I know a lot of people hoped she would live until after the election. It seems their hope was in vain, and I'm worried about the consequences. Either the orange wanker will appoint a republican which will mean that balance between progressive and Conservative is gone and Roe v Wade will be challenged, or they will wait until after the election to appoint someone. I firmly hope Biden will win, granted he's not mine or anyone's first choice. And the choice of Kamala Harris is problematic to say the least, but anyone is better than Trump. The USA cannot survive another term with him, I'm afraid he will employ the army to suppress the peaceful protests going on ever since George Floyd died, and when that happens, there will be a civil war.

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2dnCh87.jpeg

It's going to be interesting (to use the most neutral term I could think of) hearing some Republicans argue why this is such a different situation from when Scalia died in 2016.

ha1coaO.jpg

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On 9/19/2020 at 1:44 AM, Artemis said:

One of my relatives on Facebook posts almost nothing except stories and pictures of animal abuse.  I had to unfollow her, but that doesn't mean I don't care about animal cruelty.  I care a lot, it's one of the causes I'm most passionate about.  Sure I could sit and stare at pictures of hurt puppies all day long for the sake of being "informed", but what good does it do to be feeling sad and helpless all the time?  I donate to rescues, I take good care of my own animals; I do what I can do, and try not to agonize over what I can't.  It's not healthy, and we need to be tailoring our exposure to things that make us anxious or angry without purpose.

Oh good heavens, yes!  I've been a vegetarian for thirty years, but I never watch films about the horrors of the slaughterhouse.  I'm well aware of all that, which is one reason I stopped eating meat -- but why should I torture myself?

On 9/19/2020 at 2:09 AM, Artemis said:

Did he actually say that?  I mean, do we know that he did?  I had to do some Googling ('cause I hadn't heard the details of that story), and there are plenty of articles about it, repeating the same thing; but so far the only sources I can find for that claim are virtually anonymous.

I was in the same boat -- saw a blurb on the newsfeed that apparently came with my cell phone.  I never click on those, but when I looked it up on my laptop, and I found the same dead end that you did.  The trouble is, as J.P. says, that he does say some regrettable things, so people are quite willing to believe that he said something else, possibly even more outrageous.  It's possible that someone, taking advantage of that willingness to believe, made up the whole thing (or possibly "improved" a true story).

I would be somewhat more likely to believe this story if there hadn't already been some blatant cases of misquoting him, such as the claim that he described the KKK as "fine people" -- whereas he actually said that there were ALSO some "fine people" opposed to removal of a Robert E. Lee statue, and he immediately followed that by denouncing the white nationalists. You can see it on video here.

On 9/19/2020 at 2:12 AM, besleybean said:

On balance and obviously IMHO, Trump is the worse the US has had so far.

But then I don't live there....

The mainstream media in this country has for some time favored the Democratic party.  I'm guessing this may be simply because the national media are mostly headquartered in New York City and Los Angeles, where the great majority of the population happen to be Democrats.  I'm not saying the mainstream news is wrong, exactly, but it does tend to come from a left-wing point of view.  And I'm guessing that the media in other countries get their stories about the US from our mainstream media, so of course it would be slanted toward the left.  So you may be getting a skewed picture of what goes on here.

 

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Or, he might just be an awful president. Unless, for instance, you consider Forbes to be left-wing ( https://www.forbes.com/sites/tommybeer/2020/09/20/trump-threatens-to-issue-executive-order-preventing-biden-from-being-elected-president/ ), or the Coronavirus to have a liberal bias ( https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/situation-reports/20200914-weekly-epi-update-5.pdf?sfvrsn=cf929d04_2, US numbers on page 13, Europe on 16ff ).

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On 9/19/2020 at 11:17 PM, Carol the Dabbler said:

I would be somewhat more likely to believe this story if there hadn't already been some blatant cases of misquoting him, such as the claim that he described the KKK as "fine people" -- whereas he actually said that there were ALSO some "fine people" opposed to removal of a Robert E. Lee statue, and he immediately followed that by denouncing the white nationalists. You can see it on video here.

The mainstream media in this country has for some time favored the Democratic party.  I'm guessing this may be simply because the national media are mostly headquartered in New York City and Los Angeles, where the great majority of the population happen to be Democrats.  I'm not saying the mainstream news is wrong, exactly, but it does tend to come from a left-wing point of view.  And I'm guessing that the media in other countries get their stories about the US from our mainstream media, so of course it would be slanted toward the left.  So you may be getting a skewed picture of what goes on here.


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