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Carol the Dabbler

The Political Thread

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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

Why do people think he would lie that much about some things, but not lie to them? *sigh*

I was asking myself the same, but finally I think they don't care if it's true, as long as it serves their goals and confirms their believes.

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15 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Why do people think he would lie that much about some things, but not lie to them? 

 

14 hours ago, J.P. said:

I was asking myself the same, but finally I think they don't care if it's true, as long as it serves their goals and confirms their believes.

This and Covid makes me realize how bad is the street IQ of the world. Unlike me, Sherlock knows this all along, for more than a century. That's why he is a great detective and I'm a struggling nobody.

 

On another note, I just found out the existence of Diet Coke button, when it's pressed, it would summon butler with Diet Coke on silver platter. At leasr it's not Nuke button.

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246f69137c2a1b18ec4f28ee5726d145bc70522b

 

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This is my favorite. My feet looks exactly the same with Keanu's; the jeans, I have same shoes, three pairs, two colors, and I could never get my jeans-shoe connection symmetrical, it almost always ends up like this.

images.jpg

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15 hours ago, J.P. said:

I think they don't care if it's true, as long as it serves their goals and confirms their believes.

That seems to be true of people in general.  Politicians will often say something that they surely know is "not quite true," as long as they think people will believe it, and it will further their goals.  And people are more likely to believe statements made by someone (for example, a politician) they generally agree with, and more likely to disbelieve statements made by someone they generally disagree with.

It's just that such statements are a whole lot easier to spot if you already disagree with the person saying them.  Let me give you a non-political example of that from right here on the forum, shortly after Series 3 aired.  One of the other moderators and I were PMing about some of the hubbub on certain threads, and she mentioned one member she thought was being particularly obnoxious.  I responded that I didn't find that member nearly as annoying as a certain other one.  It turned out that my fellow mod had not even noticed a blatantly unsupported statement that the latter member kept repeating, simply because she (the mod) agreed with that member in general, and was therefore not in a critical frame of mind when reading those posts.  We were each far less critical of the member that we were in basic agreement with, even though both were admittedly being truly obnoxious.

Humans are like that.

 

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On 1/23/2021 at 4:09 PM, J.P. said:

I did watch, kind of while working. It felt… hard to find a word for this - no nonsense, not more than necessary. Was really moved watching Kamala's beaming face.
And it felt like an end to a long and annoying cramp.

I'm not expecting Biden to be an angel, I know for many people he is only the less of two evils. But I'm okay with this.

BTW, it seems I was right so far about the MAGA movement dropping Trump after January 6th. I hope you can see the article, it was behind the paywall so I had to save it elsewhere.
https://221cblog.files.wordpress.com/2021/01/e28098a-total-failure-the-proud-boys-now-mock-trump-the-new-york-times.pdf

Good, I hope they'll crawl back to their mother's basement where they belong.

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6 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That seems to be true of people in general.  Politicians will often say something that they surely know is "not quite true," as long as they think people will believe it, and it will further their goals.  And people are more likely to believe statements made by someone (for example, a politician) they generally agree with, and more likely to disbelieve statements made by someone they generally disagree with.

It's just that such statements are a whole lot easier to spot if you already disagree with the person saying them.  Let me give you a non-political example of that from right here on the forum, shortly after Series 3 aired.  One of the other moderators and I were PMing about some of the hubbub on certain threads, and she mentioned one member she thought was being particularly obnoxious.  I responded that I didn't find that member nearly as annoying as a certain other one.  It turned out that my fellow mod had not even noticed a blatantly unsupported statement that the latter member kept repeating, simply because she (the mod) agreed with that member in general, and was therefore not in a critical frame of mind when reading those posts.  We were each far less critical of the member that we were in basic agreement with, even though both were admittedly being truly obnoxious.

Humans are like that.

 

True ... but in Trump's case, his statements were being fact-checked by professionals whose job it is to verify the accuracy of what he said. Were a lot of them also in disagreement with Trump's goals? Probably, but if you read the fact check columns, they're also pretty good at their research; the lies are there to be seen, regardless of how one feels about them.

Unless someone has been convinced that the press, as a whole, are actually the liars ... 

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4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

True ... but in Trump's case, his statements were being fact-checked by professionals whose job it is to verify the accuracy of what he said. Were a lot of them also in disagreement with Trump's goals? Probably, but if you read the fact check columns, they're also pretty good at their research; the lies are there to be seen, regardless of how one feels about them.

Unless someone has been convinced that the press, as a whole, are actually the liars ...

These days, it seems like everybody (including those in the public eye) has a personal point of view that colors their analyses, and that most certainly includes the media -- just decide what you want to hear and pick your news outlets accordingly!  I would call very few people liars, but everyone has their way of looking at things, and they do have certain people they believe and certain people they don't.

Trump tends to be sloppy, and also makes pointless "jokes."  My experience with Biden is pretty much limited to watching the debates, but he said one thing that even I knew was demonstrably false, so at best it had not been fact-checked.  People are presumably far more likely to fact-check what their opponent says than what they themselves say.

I find myself pining for the days of bipartisan compromises and Walter Cronkhite's straightforward news reports -- and wondering whether that era was just an anomaly, and we're now reverting to the normal human condition.  *sigh*

 

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Carol, may I ask you a question, and I promise I'm asking this out of honest curiosity? (you're of course free to ignore me if it comes across wrong, which I'm trying my hardest not to, but politics is a dicey topic - in fact, I'd rather you ignore this than become offended :unsure: ) Would there be any scenario, any at all, where you could possibly imagine yourself thinking, "Okay, that's it - this was unquestionably worse than anything any other politician in the US has ever done" ?

Like, say, Trump calls in on Fox News, then proceeds to kill some small, defenseless animal on live camera in a fit of rage (yes, I know I'm reaching here, but please bear with me). Would that make you reconsider? Or would your first instinct be to tell us how sad it is that so very few politicians of all stripes put any emphasis on animal welfare?

On a happier political/animal note, the White House has dogs in residence again:

Major is the first ever former shelter dog to move into the place. :cheers: And don't worry, in the spirit of unity, a cat will soon follow.

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1 hour ago, Caya said:

Would there be any scenario, any at all, where you could possibly imagine yourself thinking, "Okay, that's it - this was unquestionably worse than anything any other politician in the US has ever done" ?

I have a vivid imagination, so yes even though I've seen some pretty bad things already over my lifetime, I certainly can imagine some real toppers.  With Democrats coming into office now, most of my current nightmare scenarios involve financial disasters.  I prefer to think that they're unlikely to actually do such things, though.  I hope.

Or are you asking specifically if I can imagine Trump doing something I'd find unforgivable?  Well, of course -- he *could* do just about anything.  So could Biden.  They're politicians!  But in general, worst-case scenarios don't tend to happen, thank goodness, and life goes on.

 

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Not really my call, of course.

But looking over the pond I tend to think: he's gone, hope he doesn't come back and yes...let's get on with it.

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13 hours ago, Caya said:

Carol, may I ask you a question, and I promise I'm asking this out of honest curiosity? (you're of course free to ignore me if it comes across wrong, which I'm trying my hardest not to, but politics is a dicey topic - in fact, I'd rather you ignore this than become offended :unsure: ) Would there be any scenario, any at all, where you could possibly imagine yourself thinking, "Okay, that's it - this was unquestionably worse than anything any other politician in the US has ever done" ?

Like, say, Trump calls in on Fox News, then proceeds to kill some small, defenseless animal on live camera in a fit of rage (yes, I know I'm reaching here, but please bear with me). Would that make you reconsider? Or would your first instinct be to tell us how sad it is that so very few politicians of all stripes put any emphasis on animal welfare?

On a happier political/animal note, the White House has dogs in residence again:

Major is the first ever former shelter dog to move into the place. :cheers: And don't worry, in the spirit of unity, a cat will soon follow.

It might sounds silly, but I'm really happy dogs are back in the white house.

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Me too - they're such a cute, fluffy symbol of everything hopefully getting better again now. :smile:

20 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I have a vivid imagination, so yes even though I've seen some pretty bad things already over my lifetime, I certainly can imagine some real toppers.  With Democrats coming into office now, most of my current nightmare scenarios involve financial disasters.  I prefer to think that they're unlikely to actually do such things, though.  I hope.

Or are you asking specifically if I can imagine Trump doing something I'd find unforgivable?  Well, of course -- he *could* do just about anything.  So could Biden.  They're politicians!  But in general, worst-case scenarios don't tend to happen, thank goodness, and life goes on.

Doesn't have to be Trump specifically, he's just the first that comes to mind right now when I think of a walking disaster. But take someone else, sure - how about Ted Cruz, or Josh Hawley maybe, who seems like a waste of perfectly fine oxygen too. Though yeah, it should be a Republican, otherwise it's too easy. :lol: Say, whoever you pick runs against an incumbent Biden in 2024. What, if anything, would it take for you to declare, screw it, I cannot support something like *that*, I'm voting against him/her even though it means voting for a (horribile dictu) Democrat? :smile:  

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1 hour ago, Caya said:

But take someone else, sure - how about Ted Cruz, or Josh Hawley maybe, who seems like a waste of perfectly fine oxygen too. Though yeah, it should be a Republican, otherwise it's too easy.

Darn, and I was just about to mention Ted Kennedy, Bill Clinton. Hillary Clinton, maybe Joe Biden?

1 hour ago, Caya said:

Say, whoever you pick runs against an incumbent Biden in 2024. What, if anything, would it take for you to declare, screw it, I cannot support something like *that*, I'm voting against him/her even though it means voting for a (horribile dictu) Democrat?

Hey, if I like the Democrat better, I'll vote for himmer, whether or not the Republican has done anything truly reprehensible.  And if I don't like either of 'em, I'll simply vote Libertarian (heaven knows I've done *that* more than a few times).

 

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