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Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

What did you think of "The Six Thatchers"?  

93 members have voted

  1. 1. Add your vote here:

    • 10/10 Excellent.
    • 9/10 Not quite the best, but not far off.
    • 8/10 Certainly worth watching again.
    • 7/10 Slightly above the norm.
    • 6/10 Average.
    • 5/10 Slightly sub-par.
    • 4/10 Decidedly below average.
    • 3/10 Pretty Poor.
      0
    • 2/10 Bad.
    • 1/10 Awful.


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Okay, so we're not the only ones noticing there's something visually different going on. I'm fascinated! So I've been wandering around the interwebs, and here's a sampling of observations:

"We knew that series 4 would be "darker", but to me it felt like "dimmer" ... and there are views implying an alienation from well-known places as well."

"They repeatedly had the camera looking down at people and rooms. The effect for me was a feeling of being distanced from the things that were going on..."

"The warmth is missing."

 

And my favorite observation:

"In my opinion all those changes have two functions:
          - to underline the changes in the relationship of Sherlock and John
          - Sherlock's inner journey/development
221b was never just a flat, it was a mirror of their friendship and of Sherlock's mind and personality. For me it is clever and heartbreaking to see how the flat reflects all that has happened since the fall."


There's a lot of speculation that this is deliberate. I admit I just figured it was the result of having a different director with a different vision, but now I'm beginning to wonder if it is indeed a purposeful effort to unsettle the viewers. If so, well done, because I felt like I was watching a different show on first viewing.

 

Interesting, eh?

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Gah... there are so many pages to catch up! I thought I'd manage but apparently not.

 

Just a comment about hearing Sherlock from a couple of pages ago. To me, actually, to my surprise, I find it's easier to understand Sherlock, eventhough I'm more familiar with American English, but I found Sherlock easier to understand. Caption would be good, but since I don't have any I'm perfectly happy with what I hear.

 

The things I failed to catch is someone said, Norbury? Or whatever code Sherlock gives to Mrs. Hudson, and in TAB, crimson wound.

 

Okay, so I think I will leave this thread alone until I'm able to catch up.

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@Surelock: thanks for pointing out that all creators are more than a bit weird when it comes to their creations: so, effectively, Mr Gatiss behaved in a churlish manner by copying the response of his allegedly favorite crime writer, who also did the same thing in his time: it's a good thing he has tried to humanise Sherlock in this one, because Sir Arthur had no excuse for NOT disregarding one critic's evaluation and instead focusing on writing better stories in the future!

In all matters pertaining to artistic criticism, silence is golden!

As a matter of fact, Mr Gatiss has been copycatting from other writers, too, in this one: A.J. ( the survivor's initials are those of E.W. Hornung's anti-hero, the cricket-playing master cracksman Arthur Raffles); and Dr Watson's quip during the dog sequence about hiding a tree in a forest comes straight from a Father Brown story by G.K. Chesterton.

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I wasn't too shocked about this episode, not disappointed either. I figured this was the direction the show was going. That still does not mean I am very happy with it. I honestly feel that the above mentioned review in The Guardian has got a good point, though perhaps it is exaggerating how Bond-like Sherlock is becoming.

 

This particular part of the review is what I really agree with:

"The problems with the show, once so surprising and so vital, began in series three, when it had become a phenomenon. A single decision shoulders much of the blame. When Moffat, Gatiss or both decided that Mary Watson just had to be a ninja assassin with a murky past ... How can the viewer be expected to believe that both John Watson’s best friend and his wife could be waist-deep in such extraordinarily cool activities? The show began to feel implausible, a fate from which it has never recovered."

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Not only has Mr Gatiss been copycatting right, left and centre, he has also forgotten (again, since he did the same in TEH), how Sherlock is a grammarian: a roll of a die! Dice is the plural, but by now, who's counting all the mis-steps in this episode?

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Yes!!, the warmth is gone!

Today morning I realized that there is not only the all-over lightning - it‘s the costumes too!
Just look at the promo pics. All blue.
The only exception I can think of is Molly‘s outfit at the christening. After that she wears a blue cardigan. Mycroft seems to like reds, but his new tie is blue. Sherlock‘s blue shirt.

I will be disappointed if its only for a mood.
I‘m diappointed so far that the loose ends were, as someone wrote, carelesly swept under the rug. At least it seems so. We have no answers so far, only new questions. Again.
 

 

Maybe the problem is indeed that Sherlock became a game between the makers and the fandom. It‘s so much fun, apparently for both sides, but it might become unreadable for the average viewer.

A little digression: I always like to quote Forrest Gump as an example: I was watching it twice in cinemas: in Poland and in Germany. I noticed huge differences between the reactions - ppl were laughing at absolutely different things. While in Germany it were more the funny gags, in Poland it were the nuances and hints. Poland was (and still is) enormously US-centered. Apparently the viewers knew much more about US history and culture than those in Germany. Anyway: You can still laugh at Forrest, with or without knowing the backgrounds, but only with the knowledge you can judge the movie‘s brillancy.
In Sherlock this knowledge makes a huge part of the show. S1-3 worked well without it, but I‘m not sure if it still works for TAB and S4. Sadly I cannot say because I also became a part of it.

 

As for the set. 221B is the same set as always. They have some stored parts, the others are rebuilt with great accuracy. (I remember Arwel agonizing about a shade of green paint that was a tad off) What makes the mood different, is definitive the lightning or/and postproduction. You can change much with just a lens with different focal lenght.

I posted a link to pics of John‘s flat in the 221B thread, if you didn‘t seem them - the rooms almost look like 221B in a mirror. Very elaborate, I don‘t think that there were budget cuts on it. In S3 it was shot on location, now it‘s built in a studio. I also remember a crew member‘s notice that in S3 the way how John‘s living room looked like was a visual hint that „John in his head didn`t leave Baker Str.“

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Oh, one more: The MISS ME on the CD. Looking quite a lot like the tag from TAB. Marry's twisted humor?

Not to say the difference in her last lines.

:wtf:

:wtf:

:wtf:

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"Miss me" ... Mary's twisted humor, definitely. (Okay, almost definitely. :smile: ) Plus, as she said, she knew it would get Sherlock's attention.

 

The blue promo photos must be deliberate, surely? I took them to be so right from the start, at any rate. To me that's so obvious I didn't even think about it. But the, er, "cheapness" ... that's weird. It's off-putting. The more I think about it, the more I certainly hope there's a reason.

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Found on FB. Interesting, huh?

 

15826821_1849468375299215_50040204198575

If it was another a serial would say that is the case. But this "Sherlock". There is no cases.

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Found on FB. Interesting, huh?

 

15826821_1849468375299215_50040204198575

 

Not really, no. Writers tend to have favorite phrases. Plus, that's a fairly common thing to say, at least in American English. Sort of a cliche answer when you're trying to be a smartass.

 

However, if the implication is that Norbury is connected to Moriarty, then they really are jumping the shark, imo. That implies that this was all set up long before by Moriarty to "burn the heart out" of Sherlock. So somehow Jim knew Mary would jump in front of the bullet? No no no no no, please no. Please let's have a more believable explanation than that. Please?

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Sorry, Catherine, we cross-posted!

 

Hopefully, we will find out before this season is over which one of us is right. I just don't know what to expect right now. Aggghhh, how can this only be Thursday? :d

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Nothing happened :)

Time goes so slowly ... Every now and then I think: when will be Sunday? And the case did not easier by the fact that everywhere around me Sherlock. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram .... I think that after "The Final Problem" will see which of us was right;)

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Well, we just got a promise by Mr Gatiss, Poet Laureate, that the final one will be even more action-packed and Sherlockshomenet posted a warning about keeping shock blankets ready! It's all fine, until it isn't any more: will any detectiving be done? Or is Sherlock becoming Holmes, Sherlock Holmes, (like 007) slowly but surely, and the Guardian critic was right all along? We need to start playing the waiting game!

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Or not. :P

In the meantime a red balloon becomes another icon. :D

oh yeah .. my wallpaper in the phone ;) --->

 

1e5ff04d58dc1b6emed.png

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Whoever can read French would benefit from a really well-thought-out essay by rainbowl on Ao3. It was most enlightening!

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Yes!!, the warmth is gone!

Today morning I realized that there is not only the all-over lightning - it‘s the costumes too!

Just look at the promo pics. All blue.

The only exception I can think of is Molly‘s outfit at the christening. After that she wears a blue cardigan. Mycroft seems to like reds, but his new tie is blue. Sherlock‘s blue shirt.

 

Blue is the new METAPHORIC NARRATIVE IMAGERY being used to reference death.

 

Extremely Slight Spoiler for 4.3

 

Given that the Final Problem involves death related to water (Reichenbach Falls), this is not surprising and will likely continue thru to that episode.

 

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I agree with "the warmth being gone" - it is gone from the feel of the show in even the sets/lighting/technical side and also the characterizations.  There is no closeness, no warmth between anyone on the show.  Mary seems cold to John and of course was willing to shoot Sherlock; John's cold to Mary and Sherlock, in fact seems to be cheating on his wife AND unfairly treating his best friend like crap, Molly is coldly saying hurtful things to Sherlock that could have been softened or left unsaid. I just found them all unlikable. I mean, it was fine when Sherlock and Mycroft were cold and unlikable (albeit in Sherlock's case he was unlikable in a lovable kind of way lol).  But they are the enigmatic Holmes brothers after all.   Not EVERYONE should be a jerk, or a genius, or superpowered in some way on this show. 

 

I think the show started losing its way with the whole preposterous Mary subplot...now that this episode has put that to rest (I hope) it is my wish they will go back to basics (though it doesn't sound like it).  By basics I mean Sherlock Holmes, solving crimes in brilliant ways with John Watson as we slowly discover layers of his humanity with great stories and great humour.  

 

I guess this last episode left me vaguely disappointed but!  But!  I have high hopes that the next two episodes will shed completely new light on things and turn everything around.   I am counting on you, Moffatt and Gatiss, to blow me out of the water on this one.  Make me LOVE the show again, you guys!  Please?   :sofa:

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BLS_Pro, thank you ever so much for that article. It clarified a lot that I didn't feel right in the first episode! It was much more insightful and less personal than the Guardian one posted above, which unaccountably led Mr Gatiss to respond in a most ungentlemanly manner, no matter if he was aping ACD!

By way of shock blanket, I re-watched the Granada The Dying Detective, and it's such a well-crafted, well-paced episode! And Holmes, the gentleman detective quite properly took off his glove to accept the thanks of the victim's family! And this Sherlock will be lounging around in the same-coloured beige dressing gown, too. It seems the universe, or the costume department, can be so lazy after all :D

But there has been a rumour going around after Ep.2 trailer aired, that one of the nurses has blond hair and could be Mary in disguise.

Oh, and Redbeard, by now you should know better than to trust the two alleged fanboys to do anything right by their fans. They think that because the fandom has become so huge, it doesn't matter any more what kind of silly hijinx they come up with, the fandom will swallow them whole!

Wouldn't it be a hoot, if after all this controversy, PBS decided to pull the rug from under THEM, as they have pulled the rug from under the fandom for S3 and S4? Sorry, no longer a Masterpiece, Messers Moffat and Gatiss!

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The Independent review above touches on something that bothers me about the logic of episode one.

 

It mentions that Sherlock has been played nearly as a man with Aspergers- which I know is something we've debated at length here on the forums. 

 

But- if anything, his behaviour leading up to Mary's death could also be read as an inability to read emotional cues, much at odds with the idea that it is pure arrogance. In that context, John's subsequent blaming of him seems especially unreasonable and harsh. 

 

If Sherlock does have a trait associated with Autism- never mind whether he fits the full textbook diagnosis or not, that's not relevant- can he really be held accountable for something so out of his control?

 

I wonder if this is an element of the writing not quite keeping up with the performance- because I think BC has played that aspect beautifully and ambiguously, but any interviews with the writers I have read just pick up on his arrogance as his one great failing, which he now has to deal with the consequences of- not mentioning the fact that Sherlock has often really struggled to pick up on the emotional reactions of others, to the detriment of his own relationship with others, in a way that we have seen cause him pain, when he realises his mistake. 

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I think it's just compulsive decuction - a trait that Sherlock shares with his brother. The deduction scene with the woolen cap - Myc starts a chain of deductions before he's even aware of it. ;)

 

Re: blue

This desaturation of warm colors was also used for the story Sherlock told Anderson. And if I remember right also in the fangirl interpretation. No time to look it up because I'm suffering from the fallout and watching this (with credits to the other forum):

Poirot movie based on Agata Christie`s Appointment with Death. With Mark Gatis.

http://putlockers.ch/watch-agatha-christie-poirot-tvshow-season-11-episode-4-online-free-putlocker.html

 

In the meantime I re-watched TST again, without subtitles, and it gets better the more my brain switches to what it is, instead of what I wanted it to be.

Have made some notices for later, as for now I'm busy. (even if it's a holiday here, probably to celebrate Sherlock's birthday)

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...But- if anything, his behaviour leading up to Mary's death could also be read as an inability to read emotional cues, much at odds with the idea that it is pure arrogance. In that context, John's subsequent blaming of him seems especially unreasonable and harsh. 

 

If Sherlock does have a trait associated with Autism- never mind whether he fits the full textbook diagnosis or not, that's not relevant- can he really be held accountable for something so out of his control?

 

My first reaction was not that John was blaming Sherlock for causing Mary's death, exactly; but that he was blaming him for not keeping his vow. We've seen, throughout the series, a John Watson that believes so fiercely in Sherlock Holmes that he forgives every lie, every thoughtless put down, every deception; or tries to. Sherlock has tried to warn him that he's no hero, but John's placed absolute faith in him anyway .... and once again he's let John down. But this time the consequences were unforgiveable.

 

It's not fair, and it's not rational. But I think it's believable that a man in the grips of grief and guilt would feel that way, and stay feeling that way for a long time. Especially a man like John, who's never been good at dealing with his emotions anyway.

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After watching the episode and rewatching it a second time, I waded through this whole subject and I tend to think, as my vote also shows, that it was a pretty good start to the series, without having many Sherlockian elements in it. I liked the many references to ACD stories, was annoyed by the blue cast of the décor, laughed at Baby Watson's handling of Uncle Sherlock, since it reminded me of our own Sheralyn version, and was rather put off by the many Bond moments in it. On the whole, I tend to agree with the Independent critic, more than the Guardian one, and admired how Benedict reprised the role as if not a week had passed since the last day of filming S 3. Since I have never been a great fan of THIS Dr Watson incarnation, whatever he does will not surprise or upset me unduly. On to The Lying Detective and his perennially lying creators!

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