Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

[besleybean]

Well, I loved Mary and she actually lasted longer than I thought she would.

To me she was perfect for John and he was unlucky not to keep her.

 

[Hikari]

8 minutes ago, besleybean said:

Well, I loved Mary and she actually lasted longer than I thought she would.

To me she was perfect for John and he was unlucky not to keep her.

 

I agree . . . John has been desperately unlucky not to have kept Mary going all the way back to 1892.  She was the love of his life, no matter the era.

[HerlockSholmes]

I liked the Mary character too. Did she leave because of the situation with Martin Freeman or was it a Moftiss decision?

[Hikari]

11 minutes ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I liked the Mary character too. Did she leave because of the situation with Martin Freeman or was it a Moftiss decision?

Martin & Amanda were already split up prior to the start of filming on S4 so they had to work together every day despite being estranged.  Bet those were fun days at the office.  The fans only found out after the season had aired, by which time they had been over for more than a year.  Perhaps if they had still been together, Amanda could have talked Martin out of that horrific hair decision in S4.

I assume that they always intended Mary to die, out of respect for Canon.  Just wish they could have devised a less ridiculous death scene for AA.

[Arcadia]

Definitely a Moftiss decision. Well, as far as we are able to know, at least. But I'm pretty sure they were plotting her demise right from the start. Although I gather from what I can remember of interviews that they were initially unsure when to off her.

I know I'm repeating myself, but … I really liked Mary's character, I just thought her former profession was … well, stupidly over the top. This show banks heavily on exaggeration anyway, but "assassin" was several steps too far. Spy, maybe, would have been plenty. Oh well, it's over and done with now. But I do regret Mary's demise, I enjoyed her presence, if not her storyline.

ETA … oops, cross-posted. At least we don't contradict each other!  

[Hikari]

4 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Definitely a Moftiss decision. Well, as far as we are able to know, at least. But I'm pretty sure they were plotting her demise right from the start. Although I gather from what I can remember of interviews that they were initially unsure when to off her.

I know I'm repeating myself, but … I really liked Mary's character, I just thought her former profession was … well, stupidly over the top. This show banks heavily on exaggeration anyway, but "assassin" was several steps too far. Spy, maybe, would have been plenty. Oh well, it's over and done with now. But I do regret Mary's demise, I enjoyed her presence, if not her storyline.

ETA … oops, cross-posted. At least we don't contradict each other!  

Agreed, Arcadia.  The spy/assassin plot was just bizarre.  Also pretty misogynistic if you think about it.   If no other more traditional, girly profession would have rendered Mary sufficiently interesting or worthy of our Doctor.  When he met her he (and we) assumed that she had some medical skills based on her place of work.  It's not clear whether she is just his receptionist or his nurse . . at a small clinic, she could be both.  It would be quite natural and fitting for a doctor to fall for a nurse.  But if she made wedding cakes or taught piano lessons or taught nursery school  . . .would she not have been the same nurturing, caring, smart woman?   If she actually was at her core what she was pretending to be for John's benefit--I'm still on the fence about that.  Given her unique and very hard-won skills which they gave her, it was a waste to have her being a suburban housewife and mum at the end . . she should have gone to work for Mycroft in some capacity.  After all Big Bro pulled all kinds of strings to get his little bro exonerated after a murder--Mary had done the same thing, perhaps more often, but she was working for the CIA and it could be said, therefore--a patriot, not a cold-blooded killer for personal gain.

That's how it is with the black ops . . .you're called a patriot to your nation until you get caught . . .and then you're disavowed as a criminal.

[HerlockSholmes]

Thank Hikari and Arcadia👍

I didn’t know that they had split up before they filmed series 4. I’d always assumed that they’d split during filming. I really don’t know why I’d made that assumption. I don’t even know if any reasons were given?

I do agree though Arcadia that Mary’s former profession was maybe a little ott. 

 

[HerlockSholmes]

I wonder how the baby would affect a new series? I’d have thought that it would have been a hindrance to future plots unless they have something planned?

[Hikari]

13 minutes ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Thank Hikari and Arcadia👍

I didn’t know that they had split up before they filmed series 4. I’d always assumed that they’d split during filming. I really don’t know why I’d made that assumption. I don’t even know if any reasons were given?

I do agree though Arcadia that Mary’s former profession was maybe a little ott. 

 

I thought both Martin and Amanda were looking haggard and ouchy in S4 . . . at the time I assumed it was character acting as they portrayed sleep deprived parents of a newborn, who had hit a rocky patch in their relationship.  It suited the action.  Little did we know that MF and AA had already hit the shoals in their own relationship and Art was imitating Life?

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I wonder how the baby would affect a new series? I’d have thought that it would have been a hindrance to future plots unless they have something planned?

I just had a thought about that t'other day -- now what the heck was it?  Oh, right, they may have introduced Rosie as an excuse to keep John living in his own place, as Watson did a good bit of the time in canon, rather than at 221B.

[HerlockSholmes]

8 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I just had a thought about that t'other day -- now what the heck was it?  Oh, right, they may have introduced Rosie as an excuse to keep John living in his own place, as Watson did a good bit of the time in canon, rather than at 221B.

That’s a very good point Carol. And where original Watson often had to get a locum doctor or a colleague to cover his rounds while he went off on a case with Holmes John would have the issue of finding a babysitter. I can see it now. John turning up at 221b baby in pram to hand her over to Mrs Hudson to care for. Perhaps she shares duties with Molly?

cant see Mycroft offering though😃

[besleybean]

Surely we were shown all of this at the end of TFP?

[J.P.]

Amanda and Martin are keeping their live private. There is nothing more that the information from them that they split and that they are still friends. All the rest is speculation.

[besleybean]

Yeah, hope we know that.

I know what I think.

But it's nobody's business but theirs and Amanda has made it quite clear that Martin has complete access to his kids.

I also distunguish between the man and the actor.

[Arcadia]

2 hours ago, besleybean said:

Surely we were shown all of this at the end of TFP?

Not that I recall. John and Rosie were shown at 221B, but there was no indication whether or not they were living there.

Oh, wait. Maybe you were referring to babysitting duties. In which case, yeah, I assume that's why both Molly and Mrs. H were made godparents.

11 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I just had a thought about that t'other day -- now what the heck was it?  Oh, right, they may have introduced Rosie as an excuse to keep John living in his own place, as Watson did a good bit of the time in canon, rather than at 221B.

Thank you!!! I've been wondering from the moment they announced her why they introduced Rosie, and that's the first explanation I've heard that makes sense to me! Head canon accepted.

[T.o.b.y]

I expect that if the series should be continued at some point, it will be many years after the end of the last episode and Rosie will in school, maybe even a teenager already. 

[besleybean]

Then she may go on to work with her Dad and Uncle!

[Arcadia]

Is that what kids call their godparents? Aunt and Uncle? (I never had one so I wouldn't know.) Uncle Sherlock.... hm. I'll allow it.  

[besleybean]

Just dunno what else she would call him....I guess she may just call him Sherlock.

[Arcadia]

Or Mr. Holmes.

[besleybean]

Surely not so formal?!

[Arcadia]

I called my parents' friends by their last names until I got to be an adult, is all I know.

[Carol the Dabbler]

I agree, adults were generally Mr., Miss, or Mrs. to me when I was a kid.  However, my parents didn't really have any close friends, just relatives.  I've heard people refer to close family friends as Aunt or Uncle, and it sounds right to me that John would teach Rosie to call the adults in her life "Uncle Sherlock," "Uncle Mycroft," "Aunt Molly," and "Uncle Greg."  But Mrs. Hudson would of course still be "Mrs. Hudson."

[SherlockedCAMPer]

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Is that what kids call their godparents? Aunt and Uncle? (I never had one so I wouldn't know.) Uncle Sherlock.... hm. I'll allow it.  

 

5 hours ago, besleybean said:

Just dunno what else she would call him....I guess she may just call him Sherlock.

 

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Or Mr. Holmes.

 

17 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I agree, adults were generally Mr., Miss, or Mrs. to me when I was a kid.  However, my parents didn't really have any close friends, just relatives.  I've heard people refer to close family friends as Aunt or Uncle, and it sounds right to me that John would teach Rosie to call the adults in her life "Uncle Sherlock," "Uncle Mycroft," "Aunt Molly," and "Uncle Greg."  But Mrs. Hudson would of course still be "Mrs. Hudson."

I could see Mr. Holmes as either for a bit of fun or when he was overly annoying.  As for godparents being called aunts & uncles, many times the godparents are a child’s actual aunt and uncle so that is likely.  And I second Carol on the close family friends. I know several people who have the title of aunt/ uncle because they work with the child’s parent and are such close friends with that parent that the title got earned.

 I could see Mrs. Hudson being called grandma or equivalent term by Rosie with the rest of the gang given the title of aunt/uncle as it applies.

[T.o.b.y]

Well, one thing we know: Sherlock calls Rosie "Watson". 😅