Episode 4.1 "The Six Thatchers"

[Arcadia]

 

 

Well, the tone, action and body language is exactly what I was basing it on, as well as the chosen camera shots. But it's entirely possible I've got it wrong ... wouldn't be the first time!

If Nor had the gun trained on Mary the entire time he was talking and his talking caused her to change aim, I might agree.  But Sherlock didn't need to diffuse the situation for Mary or need to cause Nor to shift focus from Mary to himself.  Almost immediately, Nor let her gun droop, taking it OFF both of them.  And she did this BEFORE he had spoken a word.  IF he was worried about the weapon and Mary's safety, he could have done SO many OTHER things to turn down the already lessening tension.  In fact, he could have simply let Nor WALK OUT - and let the police catch this obviously NOT 'master criminal' later (right IN the Aquarium, given they were there already and he knew it).

 

IF this was an attempt to protect Mary, it was a STUPID act, not a smart one.  And that just makes Sherlock an idiot (as opposed to self-absorbed and cocky, which is STILL bad writing in this context, but certainly fits what they keep saying is supposedly Sherlock's character.  And fits what Sherlock says about Nor to Mrs H.  IF his intent had been to deflect to him, and he misjudged MARY not NOR, then the comment would be 'Just say Mary'.  In other words, the reference is to WHO surprised him - ie who did he get wrong?  He is saying to Mrs H that he was surprised by Nor, NOT Mary.)

 

From the Behind The Scenes video (around 15:30), Moffat confirms this while speaking of the scene:

 

"There's a real moment of Sherlock facing his own worst enemy - and obviously Sherlock's own worst enemy is himself - is that he can't stop himself from making a series of damaging, hurtful deductions..."

 

Moments later Gatiss states:

 

"We've been here before with him, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time. But now it has literally fatal consequences."  He goes on to say that its related to a Sherlock story set in Norbury where he "gets everything wrong".  And so, Gatiss states, in this story he "literally made Norbury flesh".

 

In other words, Moffat and Gatiss explicitly state their intent is that Sherlock is simply being his 'self-absorbed and cocky self' and that his uncontrolled and unintentional behavior leads to the tragedy.  

 

His attack on Nor was NOT a calculated act to save Mary, but an act Sherlock was 'helpless' to stop (despite Mary warning him twice) and heedless as to the effect it would have on Nor (and subsequently on himself or Mary).  He wasn't trying to goad Nor into shooting HIM rather than Mary.  He simply misread Nor completely.  He "got her wrong".

 

Well, that clinches it then, doesn't it? :D

[BLS_Pro]

Another question:

When Mary knocks out Sherlock, what is the children's song being sung as he and Sherrinford and Redbeard play on the beach?

[Brynwellyn]

During the recap at the beginning of this episode they showed Mycroft talking about another brother. This is something I have been wondering about since it first aired. He says, "You know what happened to the other one." When Sherlock shot Magnussen, Mycroft also said, "Oh, Sherlock. What have you done?" Is it possible that Magnussen was their brother? He did have a massive intellect along with being a sociopath that utilizes a mind palace- similarities much? Only reason to recap is that they are going to bring up what happened to the other brother.

[sfmpco]

Sian Brooke plays the woman who flirted with John.  She played Ophelia opposite Cumberbatch in Hamlet.

 

Mild spoiler for next episode:

 

Soooooo..... Sian Brooke played the woman who flirted with John. She is the woman in red in the next episode. So what is her real purpose and motive?

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Arcadia

[Caya]

During the recap at the beginning of this episode they showed Mycroft talking about another brother. This is something I have been wondering about since it first aired. He says, "You know what happened to the other one." When Sherlock shot Magnussen, Mycroft also said, "Oh, Sherlock. What have you done?" Is it possible that Magnussen was their brother? He did have a massive intellect along with being a sociopath that utilizes a mind palace- similarities much? Only reason to recap is that they are going to bring up what happened to the other brother.

 

We do have a speculation thread about the other brother here, if you want to read up on the theories pre-S4. Any *new* theories, however, including but not limited to the name drop "Sherrinford", should be posted here, however, as per forum spoiler policies. So feel free to speculate away.

[Arcadia]

Moderator Comment:

It's lovely to see so many old and new faces active on here! Fun!

It's been pointed out that not everyone followed "setlock", and may not wish to see references to things that are known to be coming up in the next two episodes. So if you have something to say that refers to things known to be coming up, it's probably a good idea to put them in spoiler boxes for now, just in case. And of course the threads for those episodes will be opening as soon as the episodes air.

 

Okay, resume commenting!

[sfmpco]

We don't necessarily know that "the other one" went bad.  But I don't believe it's twins.  I mean, it is never twins (although Sherlock keeps saying that).

[Arcadia]

We don't even know "the other one" is a brother! :d And I have to admit, "Put me in touch with Sherrinford" sounds more like Mycroft is calling an organization than a person. Twin organizations, probably.

[Specul8or]

Sorry to go all generalist in this comment, and happy if this post gets relegated if I stray too far but...

 

I am so fond of the longer Dr Who story arcs and the gentlemen guiding the show have shown themselves rather good at stitching disparate points together over a period of time to create unexpected and satisfying denouements. This is particularly the case when it comes to the seemingly unreliable finality of death.

 

The clues in plain sight, and the things that we are expected to accept and then slap our foreheads at in retrospect, are now the tradecraft when it comes to this kind of tv. The old rules of a whodunnit have been expanded to touch on central characters (as opposed to guest stars) and stretch across seasons (as opposed to within episodes) and to play with themes and boundaries that writers were not free to cross on TV in the previous century.

 

What it means is that television now bears far greater scrutiny than ever before, and at the same time affords us the tools to do so.

 

So now, as a staunch "Moriarty's Game" theorist (based on what this episode has shown us), I am now inclined to head back through the catalogue and see what a closer examination of his appearances and references might yield.

 

I'm sure there is a thread for this. I shall seek it out and post more there.

[Caya]

Oh, we have several Moriarty threads, I think; this one comes to mind, for instance. Please remember, though, that any speculations including evidence (well, hints really) from this episode must, for now, be strictly kept here in this thread.

[sfmpco]

I do wonder about Sherlock's obsession with texting at the start of this episode.  I mean it fits with the birth announcement in the Times.

 

[BLS_Pro]

Another problem I am noting with the new episode - which is a problem due to previous episodes as well as this episode and all its plot holes and character inconsistencies - is that emotional impact of events and characters (like Mary's death), are lessened considerably.  Why?  Because now one doesn't know if they are true or not.  Did Mary actually die, or is it a ploy?  Was Watson emotionally or physically unfaithful with the hippy chick, or is it an elaborate plan coordinated with Sherlock?

All the trickery and dishonesty by everyone means one can't trust what one sees, so one holds off one's conclusions and thus one's feelings.  Maybe Mary is dead.  Maybe she isn't.   That uncertainly means I'm not as invested in the death scene as if I thought she was indeed dying. 

The deceptions are emotionally distancing - and that's not a good thing when you are writing (or watching) a drama.

[Surelock]

I suspect Mary will reappear in Sherlock's mind palace. 

[BLS_Pro]

I suspect Mary will reappear in Sherlock's mind palace. 

 

Good Point!

 

It's interesting to note, I don't think we ever saw his Mind Palace in this episode.

 

[Surelock]

 

I suspect Mary will reappear in Sherlock's mind palace. 

 

Good Point!

 

It's interesting to note, I don't think we ever saw his Mind Palace in this episode.

 

 

 

Which makes 'The Six Thatchers' the first episode to not feature Sherlock's Mind Palace if we start counting from 'The Sign of Three'. It's ironic that the episode without the Mind Palace has the most story inconsistencies.

 

 

 

I'm also wondering if anything in this episode can clue us to what Moffatiss are planning to do with the final episode of this season, 'The Final Problem'.

 

The original case dealt with the alleged death of Holmes in his struggle to bring down Moriarty. However that was already covered in the Season 2 finale, 'The Reichenbach Fall'. I doubt Moffatiss are going to go with another Sherlock dying story.

 

ATM my theory is that 'The Final Problem' is the final problem (or case) that Sherlock and John solve together for at least the foreseeable future.

 

My evidence is:

 

1. Mofatiss and the rest of the cast have said that this season may be the final season due to their busy schedule. Yes I know that a few years ago, Moffatiss and Cumberbatch said that they planned to do a fifth season as well but plans can change. 

 

2. Moffatiss have also said that they plan to make this season darker. This episode has already given us a few clues on where they're going with a rift in Sherlock and John's friendship due to Mary's death. I think it's important to note what Moffat said about this matter in his interview with Entertainment Weekly:

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/01/01/sherlock-season-4-premiere/

 

 

We take that rift head-on in the remainder of the [season]. We don’t ignore it. We don’t have John come back and say, “Well I’ve thought about it and it’s all fine.” If anything, the rift gets worse. We decided if we were doing this we’re doing grief properly. We were doing the consequences properly. We tried to have people go through what they’d actually go through in this circumstance which, of course, is hellish. And as emotionally reticent as Sherlock Holmes is, it doesn’t take a 12-year-old to figure out he’s a profoundly emotional man. We don’t skirt around it. We don’t just get on with the story of the week — although there is a story of the week. There’s a big villain to fight. But front and center are the consequence of Mary’s death and Sherlock’s culpability. He could have done better, it’s his lifestyle that killed her in the end.

 

It's interesting to note that Moffat said that the rift will get worse.

ATM I'm interpreting all this to mean that Sherlock and John's rift will never truly heal. I think John is still going to be angry with Sherlock in the later episodes and by the final episode he'll decide to just do one more case with Sherlock. That case will be the titular 'Final Problem'.

 

I think that's a dark way of tackling the concept of grief because sometimes grief doesn't heal. Sometimes instead of trying to get rid of your grief, you have to accept you can't get rid of your grief. You have to then adjust your life so you can live with your grief instead.

 

At the end of 'The Final Problem', I speculate that John will leave Sherlock to raise Rosie on his own. I know John likes adventure but I think he'll realise his duties as a parent require him to sacrifice his lifestyle.

 

As for Sherlock, I think he'll retire. I think he'll never truly get over the grief of losing Mary. I think Moffatiss may just write Sherlock to be a beekeeper in retirement at the end of the episode similarly to the books.

 

I think this would be a fair way for Moffatiss to conclude Season 4. It doesn't rule out the possibility of Sherlock and John coming back together for another adventure some time in the future. However it still adds somewhat of a conclusion to the story. 

 

ATM I think Moffatiss aren't sure if they'll be able to do a fifth season, so they may plan on making the ending of Season 4, at least semi-conclusive. 

 

Edited January 3, 2017 by Caya
added spoiler tags for the quote, because it talks about the next episode(s)

[Arcadia]

Another problem I am noting with the new episode, which is a problem due to previous episodes, is that emotional impact of events and characters (like Mary's death), are lessened considerably.  Why?  Because now one doesn't know if they are true or not.  Did Mary actually die, or is it a ploy?  Was Watson emotionally or physically unfaithful with the hippy chick, or is it an elaborate plan coordinated with Sherlock?

 

All the trickery and dishonesty by everyone means one can't trust what one sees, so one holds off one's conclusions and thus one's feelings.  Maybe Mary is dead.  Maybe she isn't.   That uncertainly means I'm not as invested in the death scene as if I thought she was indeed dying. 

 

The deceptions are emotionally distancing - and that's not a good thing when you are writing (or watching) a drama.

 

This is similar to the problem I am having ... this episode nearly negates the emotional impact of S3. At the end of HLV Sherlock makes this horrific decision to murder a man, basically sacrificing his own life in the process, all to keep Mary safe. A few weeks later, and she's dead anyway. Then what the H did Sherlock go through all that for!???!!?

 

It's sort of a pattern, I'm afraid. S1 ends with a tense showdown between Sherlock and Moriarty; the opening of S2 subverts it with a silly interruption by the BeeGees. S2 ends with a massively heartbreaking sacrifice on Sherlock's part, then in S3 we find out it was all a ruse to fool John (for some still nebulous reason). HLV ends with a wrenching goodbye on the tarmac; then in TAB we find out Sherlock was high at the time and any emotion he may have been showing immediately becomes suspect. Now this. And I agree with BLS ... it's starting to wear thin. I find I am far more upset by what I perceive as the inferior quality of this episode, than I am upset by what actually happened in it. A bit not good, that.

 

I suspect this is one of the limitations of the "3 episodes every 3 years" format ... we have so much time to think about what happened between seasons, that each new season acquires more significance than it should. And then they have so little time to tell a story each season that they cram in too much at one end, and leave out too much at the other end. I saw so little of the "happy times" with Sherlock and his little family that I'm finding it hard to grieve over its loss; I'm merely irritated that they didn't even get Sherlock's haircut right.

 

*sigh*

[Arcadia]

 

I suspect Mary will reappear in Sherlock's mind palace.

 

Good Point!

 

It's interesting to note, I don't think we ever saw his Mind Palace in this episode.

 

Yeah we do. He goes there for a moment when he first notices the missing Thatcher, and, um.... another time, I think. Can't remember. Could be somebody else. Could be a thing with peas.

[sfmpco]

This Easter egg from the episode...

 

https://twitter.com/piningsherlocck/status/816028639590580224

[Inge l-w]

Yep! We certainly DO NOT take time to read each other's posts! I pointed out the Thatcher inconsistency, it went in one ear and out the other! I pointed out the Gabrielle Ashdown reference to that mediocre film, it went down the drain!

Dear fellow members, we are Sherlockians or we are just fans of one of the hundreds of different interpretations of our beloved character! Focus and read through all previous comments before we all lose our marbles! Pretty please!

[J.P.]

The theme for the episode is not consequences. It's IN-consequences.

But I think we are quite over-critical

 

The main problem is IMO the expectations. We expect something perfect. Which is not possible.

 

 

[J.P.]

Someone also brought the idea that Sherrinford might be in a prison or a mental institution. It seems that Mycroft is making regular calls – there is a post-it on the fridge saying „13th“. A chilling idea. What if the padded cell in Sherlock’s mind is something that comes from reality? (I think I wrote something similar once, but not regarding to the possible 3rd brother.

[Catherine]

As well wise to read. In Poland, a big part of the "real" fans focused on the fact that johnlocked no longer has a chance. And yet that is the Mary of wine, because if he had not died that John did not offend the Sherlock.

 

In my opinion he was a good episode. But I expected something better to start the season. Everything happened very quickly and erratically.

 

My two favorite scenes is obviously 'do not throw the rattle "and balloon - John

 

My theory on "go the Hell" is:

1. Hell in Norway
or

2. Hel in Poland - definitely closer to my heart;) In addition, we see those around when Mary riding a motorcycle - subtitles Solidarność (solidarity) and Kiełbaski (sausage). 

[Caya]

This Easter egg from the episode...

 

https://twitter.com/piningsherlocck/status/816028639590580224

 

What I find interesting about this card is the 11 Oct 14 date of issue. Wasn't she already married then or am I mixing dates up badly?

 

[Fantasy Lover]

No, she was. If I'm correct it was after Mary shot Sherlock, but before Sherlock shot Magnussen.

[Arcadia]

Proof that your brain processes information while you're asleep ... I woke up this morning with two new observations:

1. John not only seems to have drifted away from Mary, he seems to have drifted from Sherlock too ... he's in the kitchen with Mrs. Hudson instead of in the living room with Sherlock. Influence of the girl on the bus, or something else?

2. (This one refers to the next episode):

Maybe there's a reason the main villain from TLD and John look similar from the back ... maybe we're supposed to confuse which is which. Or Sherlock is. I don't like this thought, I wish it would go away.

3. This isn't a new thought but I'll mention it now anyway .... when Lestrade says something about the "poor kid" who dies in the car, John responds with something like "we've already solved that, why are you still talking about it?" Oooooh, harsh, John! That sounds more like something Sherlock would say. It reminds me of the scene in HLV where John's rather rude to their neighbor lady when she comes to him for help. John's manners may be rubbing off on Sherlock, but Sherlock's callousness seems to be rubbing off on John. I wonder if they're going somewhere with this or if we're just supposed to find it kind of funny.