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Episode 4.2 "The Lying Detective"

What Did You Think Of "The Lying Detective"?  

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    • 10/10 Excellent.
    • 9/10 Not quite the best, but not far off.
    • 8/10 Certainly worth watching again.
    • 7/10 Slightly above the norm.
    • 6/10 Average.
      0
    • 5/10 Slightly sub-par.
    • 4/10 Decidedly below average.
    • 3/10 Pretty Poor.
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    • 2/10 Bad.
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    • 1/10 Awful.
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What did you think of Series 4 episode 2 "The Lying Detective"

 

 

Sherlock faces one of the most chilling enemies of his long career: the powerful and seemingly unassailable Culverton Smith - a man with a very dark secret indeed.

 

 

Use the topic poll to score the episode, and the thread below to discuss.

 

This topic will unlock automatically on Sun 8th January 2017.

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I LOVED Ms. Hudson and I HATED the ending but I knew Sherringford is a woman.

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OH MY GOD WHAT THE FRICK WAS THAT??? I'M SORRY I EVER DOUBTED YOU MOFISS THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH OH MY GOD

 

[WILL ADD SOMETHING MORE MEANINGFUL LATER AFTER THE SHOC KHAS PASSED]

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WHAAAT???!!!

 

John kicking Sherlock!

John and Sherlock making up!

The woman!!

The sister!!

 

This was insane! But my initial reaction is that it's insanely good.

 

I cried when John kicked Sherlock.

And how Sherlock comforted John was amazing!

What an unbelievably emotional episode...

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Wow, I'm so in love with this series!

 

And, I wished for it for so, so, so long and it finally came true: The woman is back! I will be so happy when I will have sorted everyting out in my head :D

 

As I'm not so familiar with the Conan Doyle stories, can somebody please explaine to me why Sherlock didn't recognize his sister?

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Estrangement?

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Mr Moffat likes to pile on the melodrama with a trowel, but this time he excelled himself!

Mary's ghost, the actual beats of The Dying Detective worked into a rollercoaster ride of epic proportions, and the discovery of The East Wind being Euros, the Ancient Greek name for it, and a woman ( planted in the vicinity of Dr Watson's house so that he would pick her out as his new therapist, since Sherlock had purloined ELLA in the previous episode! ) There is NO third sibling in ACD, since Sherrinford was the name chosen by Sir Arthur for Sherlock, before he changed his mind.

Molly and Lestrade were, unfortunately, only cameos in this one, along with Donovan, but Mrs Hudson was definitely upgraded! Her car, her wit, her versatility, all helped Sherlock reach his final goal for now!

May she continue in this vein in the next one, although she re-used Molly's line from TRF: Anything you need, anything at all!

The whole sequence with the red Aston Martin and Sherlock handcuffed in the boot was priceless!

Once we get the DVDs, in good time, I hope there are some outtakes of that! Oh, and the blue silk dressing gown is back! I had missed it in S3 and TAB.

Was it a continuity error, or does Lady Smallwood have two names? Up to last week and in HLV she was Elizabeth, on the card she left Mycroft it read 'Alicia'. What's going on?

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This was so, so amazingly good!!!! Freeman was incredible, Mrs Hudson amazing, the Mycroft bits were superb.... I just cannot wait for the ending.

 

I would have liked more Molly, but still it was fantastic, and Cumberbatch was so good, maybe his best ever? I feel like they brought all the characters so far and that was so rewarding after all this time.

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So... I have to go to bed (it's midnight here in Germany and I have to be at work early tomorrow), but I just wanted to stop by to say:

 

I need to process this episode an awful lot and I know that Mary's part in it got on my nerves (like Sherlock couldn't have figured out on his own how to get John to come out of his shell again - he's been doing that since before Mary even knew the two of them, for crying out loud).

 

I am not happy with there actually being a third sibling in the flesh, alive and murderous, and not surprised that it's a sister at all.

 

Apart from these two grievances I think I'll really, really like this one.

 

I particularly like one aspect of it, and it's the most important one:

 

Sherlock.

 

Sherlock is incredible. And he's growing more and more like the original Mr Holmes in character. He has that kind wisdom at heart that I loved the original for and it's displayed wonderfully and very touchingly here.

 

"You can keep your scars, I just want your handbag" - that was beautiful, even if he was being duped. It doesn't matter. He was lovely.

 

And how he handled the scene where John confesses to "Mary" that he had been cheating on her was lovely, too.

 

My hero is back! Yay!

 

Mrs Hudson was just... Mrs Hudson. What can I say. I love her.

 

As to why Sherlock didn't recognize his sister, I have a suspicion that he hasn't seen her in a long while and that he might not even have known she was alive. In fact, what with the introduction of an amnesia drug into the Sherlock Holmes universe, I have a strong suspicion that his memories of her will turn out to have been manipulated, if not erased to a large degree.

 

Do you guys think she really did shoot John at the end? Kill him, I mean? If so, no wonder they couldn't continue the series right away... Being dead never stopped anybody from playing a big part on Sherlock, so John could be in the next episode anyway even if he was diseased or in a coma. I'd hate that, but it's possible.

 

I hope she didn't kill him, though. I want the boys to be alive and as well as possible when we see them for the last time (?) next week.

 

Hope you all got something out if this as well. Night, night!

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This was good old, reliable Mr Moffat territory, with all actors on top form. My only problem was with Mary's ghost popping up everywhere, originally giving Sherlock the case of tackling Culverton Smith to bring Dr Watson back, when throughout the series Sherlock has done nothing but protect and sacrifice for Dr Watson. In this case , he even compromised his good name and his health ( just like in The Dying Detective, ) to bring Dr Watson to his side.

I am still not sure about Evros, the East Wind in his life being a deranged elder sister.

And apparently Miss Adler is back, even in the form of a text message, although it shows sentiment on his part to have kept her text alert the same even as he switched mobile models. Did he not chide her abou it being found on the losing side, in the first place?

However, Dr Watson is progressively getting out of control with his anger management issues. Ever since TEH, he has vented his anger by using his alleged best friend as a punching bag, and this time he went too far, whatever the provocation! I am puzzled as to why Sherlock lets him get away with it and even excuses it!

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Okay, are you sure Mofftiss isn't on this forum?

Was I the only one constantly thinking they used some of our ideas and thoughts?

 

I'm a bit late, culdn't tear myself away from Twitter. Even my little timeline exploded. The makers were online - this is surely a special experience. There was a LOT of swearing and holysh1tting and yelling, and it also was what I wanted to do.

 

This was definitely not the kind of character development that I can easily make friends with. And I suspect a lot of people will hate it.

But it is what it is.

Mrs Moffat and above all - the cast - made it such a rollercoaster, that to quote the meme:

 

Sherlock.gif

 

I was crying, squeeking in horror and hollering at the monitor! :blush:

 

I suspect that this, opposite to TST, will be an episode that I will like less after re-watching.

 

PS:Seeing Mary I instantly thought abut that little 3-sentece-shortie I quoted once, let me come back to it later. It's after 2AM and I'm really glad I took a day free tomorrow. I need to restart my brain. I'm going to bed. With a notebook and a pen - just in case.

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I can imagine the reaction in the screening.

 

No. I can't.

 

But it still makes ma a bit teary each time I think about how it could have been.

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Okay.  I agree this was a MUCH MUCH better episode than the first.  The last I gave a 1.  This I gave a 9.

Thoughts as they are occurring to me.

BEST LINE (maybe in the entire series):

"In saving my life, she conferred a value on it.  It is a currency I do not know how to spend."

Just beautiful.

THAT is why Moffat's writing is FAR superior to the Gatiss episodes.
--
John should have recognized the therapist as the bus woman immediately.  I didn't buy that for a second.  And I don't buy that Sherlock didn't recognize his own sister (in the form of the therapist) even in his somewhat drug addled state (perhaps his sister is where the 'premonitions' in the first episode came from though?  Her hand in things - or her appearance somewhere we weren't shown or didn't notice). 
--
WAS the actress playing his sister also playing the fake 'Faith' or was that another actress?  If it was the sister actress, it was a far better form of the disguise - because I suspected it might be her at first, but watching her, it just didn't look like her to me.  If it wasn't the same actress, that's a cheat I don't like.
--
Speaking of a cheat, I don't like the fact that through ALL the walking he was doing with fake 'Faith', the government could NOT tell if he was with someone (and thus prevented Mycroft from seeing the sister and having her game ruined.)  That just is not possible given all the walking they did and all the different forms of surveillance used.  Again, that is bad writing.
--
Still don't like the COINCIDENCE that the ONE woman John 'cheated' with was the Sister.  That is bad writing.

I still don't like the OUT of CHARACTER fact OF his 'cheating'.  That's bad writing.
--

Not sure how I feel about Sherlock having to be TOLD to save John, and how.  I'm tending not to like it but haven't digested it fully yet, so am withholding final judgment.

--

I like that Sherlock's drug using is, as always, part of his plan.  And I like how it fits with the 'sickness' induced by the villain ala the Dying Detective.  I also like that it better explains why he would not inform Watson that the whole thing is a ruse.

--

The use of Mrs. Hudson was PERFECT comedy writing.  It used and expanded upon already known elements of the character, rather than contradicting them. 

I love how she gets the gun from Holmes in his drugged state. 

I love how the Bond expectation of Sherlock emerging from the Aston Martin is subverted.

(Not sure about her 'deductions' since she already knew what was bothering Sherlock - ie knew what Mary had instructed him to do.  Seems like she's just playing along the whole time.  Have to think about this one too).
--
The "two weeks" running gag was a good one.

 

The fact that John figures it out on his own via HIS 'Mind Palace' version of Mary was perfect.  (And lets us know how the sister figured it out too).
--
Why did the Sister want Sherlock to take the Smith case?
--
Did the sister TORTURE Redbeard?  Is that why he had to be put down?  Was she a serial killer - or at least was everyone afraid she was going to become one?  Because one of the signs of that mentality in childhood is torturing animals.  Is THAT why she wanted Sherlock to take Smith's case?
--
Don't like that Watson doesn't call Mycroft when he thinks Sherlock is about to be harmed.
--
Don't like that the police officer just wandered away when told the man he is guarding might be being attacked and then he can't get in the door.  He should have done exactly what John did.
--
I basically like this episode because it is Sherlock being SMART, not STUPID.
--
I HATE the phrase "It is what it is".  Always have.  It represents a form of helplessness and acceptance of determinism/fate.

I have to chew on its meaning in the context in which it was used - and how it might be a much more mundane way of saying the same thing as Samarra
--
I like that John gives Mary back her self-motivation, by saying Sherlock didn't kill Mary.  She acted of her own accord.  Still don't like the bad writing in regard to HOW they killed her though.
--

I think we were able to trust the characters and especially Sherlock more here because, ironically, we suspected we were being played by Sherlock - and suspected we knew WHY we were being played by him - his love of John (and Mary).  So because we knew the truth (that a deception WAS likely afoot) and had it confirmed in the end, what worked AGAINST emotional involvement in the last episode actually worked FOR emotional involvement in this one.

--
Since the sister wrote Miss Me? on the paper, she is obviously somehow connected to Moriarty.  But the question is: was she a cohort of M?  was she a consort of M?  was she a manipulator OF M?  In other words, was he working on her behalf or is she working on his behalf?  The fact that M is likely the "mutual friend" who put her in touch with Calverton and gave her Faith's original note suggests she is simply using Moriarty's posthumous visage as a way of 'tweaking' Sherlock (and Mycroft).
--
Could the fact that his sister is behind things be why Sherlock fixated on and made the whole TAB situation about the women in his life - and about a plot by women?

The East Wind call back was nice - and was definitely on his mind as he got into the plane.
--
What is the note opposite Mycroft's "Call Sherrinford"? 

Who/what is Sherrinford?  The institute in which his sister is supposed to be kept?
--
What was the note Watson gave to Molly to give to Sherlock at the end of 4.1?  Seems an unnecessary mystery, if all that was being conveyed was what Molly told him.



I'm sure I'll have more thoughts, but this is my stream of consciousness thinking at the moment.

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"SHERLOCK: The East Wind takes us all in the end.
JOHN: What’s that?
SHERLOCK: It’s a story my brother told me when we were kids. The East Wind – this terrifying force that lays waste to all in its path."

Hmm - could it be Sherlock doesn't KNOW about his sister?  Or has repressed his memories about her? (I wouldn't like the idea of the latter.  That would seem to be more bad writing, but is hinted at via the flashbacks we keep seeing him supposedly have.  And I REALLY hope that Redbeard isn't some subconscious representation of his Sister.  THAT would be REALLY BAD WRITING.  Uhg!)

Obviously Sherlock equates the East Wind with death as well.   "Mind-Palace Mycroft tells Sherlock, "The East Wind is coming, Sherlock. It's coming to get you." ie Sherlock is telling himself he needs to think fast because he's about to die. 

It's also in this context (approaching death) that we see Redbeard and Sherlock says "They're putting me down too now" indicating that Redbeard was put to death for some unspecified reason.   So more death connections.

Given the flashback by the water with Redbeard and two kids, in this episode and the last (and all the NARRATIVE IMAGERY of water and sharks/combined with the Appointment in Samarra death references in the last only), it would suggest his subconscious is supposedly trying to tell him death approaches in the form of his sister.  And that it has been telling him this since 3.3

It is obvious that his Sister didn't know (much) about Sherlock.  In the form of the fake "Faith" she says "You're not what I expected" meaning she hasn't associated directly with him, unlike (apparently) Mycroft.  She calls Sherlock "Nicer" and says he thinks "Sweetly" in comparison to Mycroft (whom likely has code named her Sherinford and believes she is "secure" somewhere.)  And obviously Mycroft does know about his Sister as well, stating she went "rogue" and indicating he did something about it (ie something to her) or at least didn't stop something from being done to her.

All of this begs the question, why is she going after Sherlock?  IS she going after Sherlock?  Is all of this actually about Mycroft and HIS secrets?  And why does she (apparently) shoot at Watson? (I say apparently, because we know he is alive still, so why the shooting?  Is someone outside, listening to the conversation (ie Mycroft security keeping an eye on John)?  Is that why she didn't say 'you' but said 'he' and 'him'?



 

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YES! YES! YES!!!! THE REAL SHERLOCK IS BACK IN THE BUILDING!!!

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At the end of the fake Faith meeting, the children's singsong in the flashback sounds like it's saying "My little master...will find me".

Does anyone know a children's song or rhyme like this?

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I can't think right now, I just enjoyed it so much that I'm just fizzing away on dopamine. :d And I was so happy that it looked like Sherlock again! The little deduction of Faith's note in the street was wonderful. Sherlock's brain is wonderful (glad it's back!) Etc etc. I may not make sense for days.

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It was brilliant. Culverton makes Moriarty appear sane. How is that possible?!

 

And Sherlock's path around London was brilliant.

 

Was surprised at who the other one turned out to be, not that she was female. Hey something else the fandom figured out before the series aired.

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And I'm already re-watching it on PBS online.

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PBS did crazy credits with this episode as well.  It took the re-watch to be able to get it written down: Once more into the breach.  I'm assuming that means 1 more episode this series.  Can't wait until next week.

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I wonder if the I.O.U. was always a message from their sister? Did she try to kill they boys/ the whole family as children, was unsuccessful (apart from Redbeard), and has been waiting for another chance? And also, of course, I have to wonder, is she a full sister or a half sister (did Sherlock's father have an affair?), and if a half sister, who are the rest of her family?

 

I am also very worried for Molly, because they keep mentioning her so you know she is 'one of the family' of Sherlock's friends, the cake thing etc. but they haven't really played the card of having her in danger yet, and as a non-canon character she may be an easy target.

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I'll eject myself and will only comment about S4 after all episodes, and when I'm ready, for my own enjoyment and sanity.

 

Just want to say I feel genuinely bad for Martin and Amanda in John and Mary's scenes, without knowing or wanting to know any details or making any assumptions, because those are not my business, or anyone's, but just for the fact Martin and Amanda are separating.

 

It must be tough for them, then and now.

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Honestly I think Sislock just shot near John rather than at him.

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Euros really scares me. She gave me nightmares!

 

What do you all think her connection with Moriarty will turn out to be? Cause I am assuming there must be one. Andrew Scott is listed as a cast member for the next episode and the clue was Sherrinford.

 

Not that we know Sherrinford has anything to do with Euros, really. It could be her last name (she doesn't necessarily have to be a Holmes; could be a half sibling only or could have changed her name through marriage). It could be a code name. Or a completely different person.

 

Anyway, she scares me and she certainly reminds me of Moriarty. When she was taking out her contacts, I half expected her to peel away her whole face and reveal his visage. Glad she didn't, of course, that would have been way too preposterous.

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