Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"

[Sherlockedd]

I feel like I need to read a really good fanfic right now with an alternate ending to this episode...one where johnlock becomes canon. If I don't find one soon I may just end up writing it myself  ^_^

[Caya]

We do have a fic recommendation thread or two if that helps (and in fact a whole subforum dedicated to Sherlock fanfic), but by no means let that stop you from hitting the keyboard, the fandom can always use more great stories.

 

eta: General note, for anyone posting recommendations there in the days to come, please be mindful of spelling out spoilers until the no-spoiler-time has passed. So no "I love this fic because Mary never dies there" recommendations for the moment, please. ;)

[Fantasy Lover]

I feel like I need to read a really good fanfic right now with an alternate ending to this episode...one where johnlock becomes canon. If I don't find one soon I may just end up writing it myself ^_^

Same.

 

OT never felt so betrayed in my ENTIRE LIFE!!!

[Sh_Sharon]

Here on East coast.  We are getting behind he scenes of the last episode.   :(

[BLS_Pro]

Am I the only one that hates the ending?

 

It's just another person who's angry because they're not loved story. It can't get more cliche than that. 

 

I almost predicted this ending a few days ago: http://www.sherlockforum.com/forum/topic/3548-episode-42-the-lying-detective/?p=114092

 

Euros wants Sherlock to help her enact her vengeance on her big bad brother Mycroft. In the climax, Euros does a lot of bad stuff. She has Mycroft at gunpoint. Mycroft tells Euros that he loves her. Euros then accepts his apology and willingly gives herself up to the authorities.

 

Euros became insane and a criminal master mind because all along she just wanted Mycroft to tell her that he loved her the same way he loved Sherlock.

 

The End

 

The only difference is that it's Mycroft rather than Sherlock who told Euros that he loves her.

I wasn't surprised.  Given that BC said about this season "Love conquers all" and the fact that the Sussex Vampire was about "murderous jealousy" I suspected both the motive and the resolution.  I also suspected it would be Sherlock who gave the love, which is why I loved your reversal of that saying it would be Mycroft - ie the (Red) Queen.  ;)

 

I did NOT like the Mycroft characterization in this episode - at least not in the 'Morality Maze'.  His shrinking away and not wanting blood on his hands?!?!  He has undoubtedly had to do FAR worse in his job.  To be such a shrinking violet was COMPLETELY against type - especially when, in the very next scene, he is immediately willing to get the blood of an innocent little girl on his hands.

 

 

[BLS_Pro]

 

I feel like it's the end of a relationship, i'm heartbroken that it's all over...

 

Hello Papcroft and welcome to the forum!

 

Don't be so sure that it's all over, the bbc posted only yesterday that "Creator Steven Moffat has suggested another series of the detective drama "was possible" and he and fellow creator Mark Gatiss were not planning for the latest episode to be the final ever instalment.", after all.

 

Yes, the episode did NOT have a sense of unbreachable finality.  In fact, it sets it up that it could continue indefinitely, so long as the stars align.

[BLS_Pro]

 

 It felt like it was all about Eurus' games.

THIS.  The whole story felt like it was NOT about Sherlock at all, and he didn't actually do much in the way of solving things.  Like 3.1, where he was lead around by the nose by Mag, here he was being led around by the nose by Eurus.  And to what end exactly?  She was certainly schizophrenic (the little child and the psycho), but also not.  There doesn't seem to have been a point to the Saw/Dark Knight-like 'Morality Maze'.  It didn't really cause any of the characters to reveal themselves in ways they hadn't already (except Mycroft, who was bizarrely contradictory in his behavior).  And Sherlock didn't have to actually DO anything to cause himself to remember what he had blocked out.  He was (again like 3.1) simply TOLD most of it.

 

THAT is what makes this a disappointing episode of Sherlock.

[BLS_Pro]

But indeed, that's what I missed - they didn't manage to suprise me into stupor.

I think half of that was again the WAY they told it.  Even though I expected almost EVERY revelation, I was STILL looking forward to having them use good plotting and good character development as a means of the reveals.  Instead we again (like 3.1 and 4.1) got it all delivered in the most pedestrian of ways.  THAT is the biggest disappointment.

 

I still think that what they revealed has made Bride a MUCH better episode.  Bride is like The Sixth Sense in that regard.  What we've seen in Final unlocks a completely different take on what Sherlock's subconscious was telling him - that he had a sister he had forgotten.  It explains so much about that episode.  They were laying the groundwork for 4.3 through the WHOLE of the Bride.  It was essentially its true point.

 

To me, this has made Bride even better than Sixth Sense, because Bride had to work completely APART from the sister 'reveal' (and then, much later, as a completely different episode WITH the reveal) where Sixth Sense only works WITH the reveal.

[strike101]

Hi everyone.

 

Pretty disappointed if I'm honest... I have the following questions about the episode! 

 

- So Eurus broke out (or walked out) and messed with Sherlock and Watson then went back into her cell in preparation for the game

- The little girl on the plane is her.....when she shuts her eyes or goes sleep or whatever? - If so are the writers telling us that while she was talking to the trio through the camera, every time the "girl on the plane" was talking, Eurus closed her eyes or fell asleep or whatever? Was she aware this was happening was this pre-meditated? If so, why?

- In the final act she is still playing her dual role of girl on the plane and evil sis. Why? It seems all she wanted was for Sherlock to find her and erm...talk to her? Wake her up? But she was perfectly fine minutes earlier talking to Sherlock as evil sis?

- When Sherlock woke her up in the final act she helped save Watson to end the game. So her entire plan was for Sherlock to find her in her room? How did her psycho sis persona tie into that?

- If she schizophrenic? Is she actually aware that she was being psycho sis and girl on the plane throughout? She referred to the girl on the plane several times. Did she really believe there was a girl on a plane or was she fully aware shes playing both roles?

 

Ridiculous....Bad writing I thought

[jufloara]

1/10 - Awful

 

This episode was just nauseating. It wasn't a fine craft that is complex, leaves you intrigued but still holds itself to the laws of logic. It was a mess. Full of plot holes and one liners, it brought back Moriarty only to piss on his grave. Honestly, while before I found the possibility of another Holmes sibling quite fantastic this made me cringe. A lot. Apparently Eurus has always been smart, evil, and capable of witchcraft. To complete the analogy she was even locked away in Azkaban when still a child. For drowning a neighbourhood boy because she was jealous. Instead of a normal institution they put her in a place with cannibals. It was stupid. This entire episode was just F***ing stupid. And half of it was just Saw. Moftiss probably tried to bring back the vibe from TGG and failed miserably. Greg calling Sherlock a good man when he wasn't even involved in the case and had seen nothing to change his opinion of him. If it was because he remembered his name I'll scream. I'm not even coherent here but this episode doesn't deserve a clean answer. Just anger and disgust. They took something I loved and turned it into trash. Molly deserved better. Mary deserved better. I deserved better. We all did

[Caya]

Hi everyone.

 

Pretty disappointed if I'm honest... I have the following questions about the episode!

 

Hello strike101 and welcome to the forum!

 

Eurus is certainly a bit of a puzzle, but then again, we'd get bored if we didn't have those, wouldn't we? ;)

[BLS_Pro]

I think that I may have liked this episode least of all we've seen so far, because it was a bit too close to the premise of a horror film and I don't watch horror as a rule.

 

Yes, the film "Saw" (along with The Dark Knight) kept leaping to mind (as well as Silence of the Lambs of course).  Bringing that to mind certainly didn't help the episode.

 

[BLS_Pro]

the thing that did annoy me a little was the end of Eurus seeking Sherlocks love, after basically being portrait as a cold completely emotionless person. Not as in Mycroft cold, but as in intelligence having completely taken over emotion and left her literally void of any humanity just like a computer trying to make sense of the world without any moral compass. So her emotional breakdown at the end, for a lack of a better word, seemed like a complete break im character and didn't really work for me to be honest.

 

Well, they do show that there are essentially two personalities of sorts in Euros - the psychopath and the frightened, lonely little girl.  But you are correct - they did a horrible job of connecting them and did nothing to explain how the psychopath essentially disappeared and left us with just the broken little girl.

 

And Mycroft being 'squeamish' is completely out of character - given what he undoubtably has had to do for the government.  Look at how quickly he was willing to kill the little girl in the plane for the 'greater good'.  He didn't care about the blood on his hands there.  So not only was the squeamishness out of character overall, it was contradicted IMMEDIATELY.  More of the show's BAD writing.

 

Also, there is NO way Sherlock does not notice the LACK of his own reflection in the glass - especially as he moved around.  MORE bad writing.

 

And, about that - WHY have the glass missing, when you have secret exits built into your 'secure' room.  It was POINTLESS, except to show Sherlock as INEPT rather than even just partially smart let alone SUPPOSEDLY (at this point one SEVERELY needs to question this proposition) possessing of great intelligence.

[BLS_Pro]

I thought everything about Moriarty was a waste.  It didn't really explain anything - and there was no need to explain anything, certainly not as they did. 

[BLS_Pro]

I want to see the additional material that'll be in the Theatrical release.  I'm hoping (against hope) that it fills in the missing gaps pertaining to Eurus' mental problems.  Beyond that, I don't think any missing material could dig this episode out of its deficits.

[BLS_Pro]

More LOUSY writing: Mycroft knows the truth about Redbeard, but when we see him thinking to himself, we are shown a dog, not Sherlock's friend.  That is a direct LIE told to the audience by the writers, not something IN story.  It is a BAD writing cheat.

Also, there is NO reason for Mycroft NOT to tell Sherlock Redbeard wasn't a dog but was a boy instead.  MORE bad writing (So to extend the Harry Potter analogy someone else used here - Mycroft is Dumbledore, not telling Harry the things he should know - and is sending people off to Azkaban.  Sigh.)

[BLS_Pro]

There are still connections to Mary in these stories which aren't explained.  The underlying theme to them seems to be that Mary somehow knew Eurus.  That's why the Thatcher statue would connect him to both Mary and Eurus (TOO coincidental otherwise) - and Mary telling Sherlock to go to Hell, and Mycroft stating Eurus is IN Hell (another ENORMOUS coincidence).  Either VERY bad writing or as yet unfollowed storylines.

[Redbeard]

Well.  Wow.  I am another one that needs to "process" this.  

 

So, my first thoughts were that I was riveted when watching it.  I thought it was intense, and interesting, and really cool.  Having said that, it is NOT an episode I think I would ever want to re-watch for fun.  There was no joy in it for me, and precious little fun.  It was too dark for my tastes and I was feeling claustrophobic while watching it. 

 

I loved seeing Moriarty again, his entrance was epic. 

 

I was moved to see that Molly loved Sherlock still, as I had begun to think she had since moved on.  I thought it was sweet that he acknowledged her as his friend and who knows, maybe something a little more?  She certainly seems happy when they show her entering 221B at the end. 

 

I was so ticked off to see Mary's face on my screen again lol.  ENOUGH MARY.  I think I rolled by eyes way back in my head then.  Can she just stay gone already? 

 

Redbeard wasn't real.  Do I have to change my username lol?

 

As for the end, the very end...I did LOVE seeing John back at Baker Street with Sherlock.   To me, this did not feel like an ending to their story at all, just the opposite:  it felt like these 4 seasons were just a background, a set up to the Holmes and Watson that are to come....the greatest personal difficulties of their lives dealt with they can now move forward as the iconic characters we love.  All the pieces are in place. Sherlock and John in Baker St.  Mrs. Hudson.  Lestrade the trusted Scotland Yard friend...to me it is just the beginning.  Bring on the adventures!!!

[BLS_Pro]

Redbeard wasn't real.  Do I have to change my username lol?

 

To what?  Dead Man Walking?  ;)

 

 

 

As for the end, the very end...I did LOVE seeing John back at Baker Street with Sherlock.   To me, this did not feel like an ending to their story at all, just the opposite:  it felt like these 4 seasons were just a background, a set up to the Holmes and Watson that are to come....the greatest personal difficulties of their lives dealt with they can now move forward as the iconic characters we love.  All the pieces are in place. Sherlock and John in Baker St.  Mrs. Hudson.  Lestrade the trusted Scotland Yard friend...to me it is just the beginning.  Bring on the adventures!!!

 

Agreed, though some (including perhaps the creators of the show) might argue that the drama of their show was ABOUT "the greatest personal difficulties of their lives" and with those over, then the show is over too.

[Boton]

Did you miss me? Did you miss me?

 

OK, it's been two and a half weeks, and I missed you guys. I just watched TFP, and I can stand it no longer. I was going to post my thoughts on the season as a whole, but I guess I'll just work backwards in the episode threads, with the realization that everyone has made a lot of comments I need to catch up on.

 

Re: TFP. That really felt like an end, didn't it? And I think I'm OK with that. Sherlock is now a good man as well as a great one. He has uncovered his repressed memories of Eurus, and that will allow him to be a more rounded human being. John is back to normal and raising Rosie. The Baker Street Boys are the best friends ever, and they always will be.

 

The Eurus resolution was very, very dark. I don't know quite what to make of it, but what a tragedy that Sherlock's sister is a psychotic psychopath who killed Sherlock's first best friend. No wonder he doesn't form attachments easily.

 

So, Uncle Rudy is a cross-dresser and, incidentally, has access to the MI6 funny farm? OK, let's go with that.

 

I almost felt like part of this episode was dedicated to shutting down some fan ships and promoting others. Obviously, Adlock is the big winner here, with near confirmation that Sherlock is at least meeting Irene at a Harvester in High Wyckham. (My favorite line in this episode truly was Sherlock starting to play Irene's them, and Eurus saying, "have you had sex?") Sherlolly gets a boost, as I suspect we will be thinking about whether or not Sherlock was serious about the "I love you" to Molly, and in what context. I feel like Moftiss dealt a blow to Johnlock, as they literally dumped the three Garridebs in the sea and made Victor Trevor a childhood friend, thus eliminating two of the traditional "hooking on" points to make S/J fiction compatible with canon. Doesn't mean it can't be written, but it will be outside canon, I believe. I'll bet TJLC is busy retconning even as we speak.

 

But I'm OK with this existing as is. I could happily watch those 10 episodes over and over for some time, and if they want to make a theatrical release or one-off special, they can do that.

[Surelock]

Mycroft said that Eurus has an intellect that rivals Newton's.

 

Moffatiss logic: Intellect that rivals Newton's = Mind control lol

[Arcadia]

I want to see the additional material that'll be in the Theatrical release. I'm hoping (against hope) that it fills in the missing gaps pertaining to Eurus' mental problems. Beyond that, I don't think any missing material could dig this episode out of its deficits.

I'm a bit skeptical that the "additional footage" is anything more than a "behind the scenes" type production. Somewhere, I saw something like that, and it said Amanda was narrating. But I can't find any specific information now.

 

[Detective]

If this is it, and it is, then I'm disappointed. This is not the kind of ending I wanted for a great show like this.

Sherlock got too big, if you know what I mean.

[Van Buren Supernova]

I see a lot of members not liking it, but I do, and I'll say why, after I sort my real life that gets in the way right now. (An idiot wants meeting at work after last episode of S4. WHO DOES THAT?!? :p)

 

Anyway, quick note before I have to go, I have never cried watching TV about human (about dogs, well, I wept a well), probably the only time I choked up was TRF because of wrong spoiler that he really died, and here when he destroyed the coffin. Okay. Laterz.

 

 

Redbeard wasn't real. Do I have to change my username lol?

 

Why?

He was real and human.

And as far as I know, your avatar is not exactly a dog, isn't it?

 

So you don't need to change your username, you are just frigging wrong about your avatar allllll theeeseee yearrrssss. :p

[Inge l-w]

Dear Boston, glad to see you decided to air your views, as I am a fellow sufferer in real life ( students!).

Sherlock said High Wycombe, and that is right out of the Jane Austen canon. After all, there were both Austen and Wilde references in this one: Mycroft as Lady Bracknell should have created a hilarious image in our mind cottages, but given the context, that joke fell flat!

@ Detective: not just too big for its britches, downright bloated, like Mycroft in TAB!