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Episode 4.3 "The Final Problem"


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What did you think of "The Final Problem?"  

109 members have voted

  1. 1. Add your vote here:

    • 10/10 Excellent.
    • 9/10 Not quite the best, but not far off.
    • 8/10 Certainly worth watching again.
    • 7/10 Slightly above the norm.
    • 6/10 Average.
    • 5/10 Slightly sub-par.
    • 4/10 Decidedly below average.
      0
    • 3/10 Pretty Poor.
    • 2/10 Bad.
    • 1/10 Awful.


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my first post... at the last episode. how pathetic ^^)

 

What a clever sister... to take over her own prison.

 

poor molly hooper :cry:

 

It was a kind of saw... but sherlock solved it unbelievable clever... he was the only playstone she never wanted to be lost.

 

@last, i would not have forgive her that she killed my bf. and she was a kind more moriaty ...

 

and btw what happend to the woman that played the psychiatrist? wasnt she important anymore?

Didn't you get that part?  She WAS the psychiatrist.

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The biggest problem with this season is that it looks like Moffatiss didn't know what they wanted to do with it. Each earlier season at least had a clear logical progression:

 

Season 1 - Basically a set up season for Sherlock.

 

Season 2 - Explore Sherlock's flaws. Each episode focuses on one of them: love, fear and demise.

 

Season 3 - Show how Sherlock is now more human after acknowledging his flaws.

 

Season 4 - I don't know. Let's try to do the Sherlock is human thing all over again despite the fact that's what we just did in the last season?

 

It felt like they just killed Mary off just because that's what happened in the books. Then they used Mary's death to create a rift between Sherlock and John despite them already exploring that such a conflict in the beginning of Season 3. Then they decided to focus on some unknown family member of Sherlock because they need to do something big in the final episode?

 

If there is a 5th season, I'd like to see Moffatiss hire another writer. It really look like they've started running out of ideas.

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Hello Christine and welcome to the forum! :wave:

 

"Other one" is arguably ambiguous, imo. Given the Holmes' siblings long and lively history, it might be taken as referrring to many different people.

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Sherlock FINALLY remembers the name! :D That surely must mean that we have come to an end. Hehe!

 

Lestrade also says Sherlock is a 'good man' after one of his officers says he's a 'great man'.

 

In the first episode Lestrade told John 'Sherlock is a great man and one day he may even be a good one'.

 

So it looks like all Sherlock had to do in order to become a good man was to express fnor Mycroft's welfare.

 

 

Loved that bit, it made me cheer!

I just think Lestrade, over time, has come to see Sherlock as a good man - just like many others have :)

 

 

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Hi everyone.

 

Pretty disappointed if I'm honest... I have the following questions about the episode! 

 

- So Eurus broke out (or walked out) and messed with Sherlock and Watson then went back into her cell in preparation for the game

- The little girl on the plane is her.....when she shuts her eyes or goes sleep or whatever? - If so are the writers telling us that while she was talking to the trio through the camera, every time the "girl on the plane" was talking, Eurus closed her eyes or fell asleep or whatever? Was she aware this was happening was this pre-meditated? If so, why?

- In the final act she is still playing her dual role of girl on the plane and evil sis. Why? It seems all she wanted was for Sherlock to find her and erm...talk to her? Wake her up? But she was perfectly fine minutes earlier talking to Sherlock as evil sis?

- When Sherlock woke her up in the final act she helped save Watson to end the game. So her entire plan was for Sherlock to find her in her room? How did her psycho sis persona tie into that?

- If she schizophrenic? Is she actually aware that she was being psycho sis and girl on the plane throughout? She referred to the girl on the plane several times. Did she really believe there was a girl on a plane or was she fully aware shes playing both roles?

 

Ridiculous....Bad writing I thought

Did you catch the sister as the other three characters in the previous 2 shows?  If not, you've missed far too much to possibly understand the last show.  Go back and check out the tie-ins.  Yes, she is psychotic, but after all, it is a "game".

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So Sherlock forgot about Eurus, but before Mycroft said "You know what happened to the other one" to Sherlock. Why didn't Sherlock react if he didn't know that there was another one?

Hello Christine and welcome!

 

When Mycroft mentioned "the other one", Sherlock wasn't present. A few people in the government (Lady Smallwood, for example) knew she existed, but no one else, presumably. Oooooh, Mycroft, what a pressure point the bad guys would've had on you if they knew ...... :blink:

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But the bad guys ( Euros and Moriarty) knew exactly what Mycroft's major pressure point was: the lie he told to protect Sherlock and his parents from a psychic unscrupulous killer.

Anyway, if HLV got all manner of distinctions and awards, they should count themselves lucky if The Final Problem doesn't get a Golden Raspberry!

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Er, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Raspberries for movies only? Though it could be argued that Sherlock episodes are mini-movies.

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Point well taken! Still, it's hard to imagine any movie stopping Batman vs. Superman from, let's call it dominating this year's awards anyway. :lol:

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Hi everyone.

 

Pretty disappointed if I'm honest... I have the following questions about the episode!

 

- So Eurus broke out (or walked out) and messed with Sherlock and Watson then went back into her cell in preparation for the game

- The little girl on the plane is her.....when she shuts her eyes or goes sleep or whatever? - If so are the writers telling us that while she was talking to the trio through the camera, every time the "girl on the plane" was talking, Eurus closed her eyes or fell asleep or whatever? Was she aware this was happening was this pre-meditated? If so, why?

- In the final act she is still playing her dual role of girl on the plane and evil sis. Why? It seems all she wanted was for Sherlock to find her and erm...talk to her? Wake her up? But she was perfectly fine minutes earlier talking to Sherlock as evil sis?

- When Sherlock woke her up in the final act she helped save Watson to end the game. So her entire plan was for Sherlock to find her in her room? How did her psycho sis persona tie into that?

- If she schizophrenic? Is she actually aware that she was being psycho sis and girl on the plane throughout? She referred to the girl on the plane several times. Did she really believe there was a girl on a plane or was she fully aware shes playing both roles?

 

Ridiculous....Bad writing I thought

Did you catch the sister as the other three characters in the previous 2 shows? If not, you've missed far too much to possibly understand the last show. Go back and check out the tie-ins. Yes, she is psychotic, but after all, it is a "game".
I did catch the sister in the previous episodes. It is all a game but i still don't understand what exactly her motivations were in orchestrating this game at the end.
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as we all know sherlock has some problems with emotions... and i really dont think that he really knew what theese few seconds and 3 words ment to poor molly...

 

 

I actually think he does.

He didn't at first, as we see his usual inept understanding about it at the beginning of the call. But then it gets him and at the end when he destroys the coffin is his actual frustation about what he had done, to me it has two meaning and both are possible:

 

1. It's true.

When he said it, we see how his voice breaks with pained expression. It could be a moment of realization that he, indeed, loves her.

Well, most would probably say, how could someone not realizing their own feelings? It's very possible, in fact it happens to a lot of people, and it's even more convincing when it happens to someone like Sherlock. He didn't know it, he tried not to think about it, he tried to fight it, he tried to ignore it he decided not to do anything about it, and he actually never knew that he had it.

 

2. He doesn't love her.

And he understand what it means when he said those words to Molly. How emotionally destructive and cruel it could be and it breaks him. He knows this particular one is really crossing the line if he doesn't mean it, eventhough Mycroft and John can help him explain, there will be impacts to both Sherlock and Molly relationship.

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... But the thing that did annoy me a little was the end of Eurus seeking Sherlocks love, after basically being portrait as a cold completely emotionless person. Not as in Mycroft cold, but as in intelligence having completely taken over emotion and left her literally void of any humanity just like a computer trying to make sense of the world without any moral compass. So her emotional breakdown at the end, for a lack of a better word, seemed like a complete break im character and didn't really work for me to be honest.

 

I had a very brief similar reaction, but then again it makes sense to me. I think she is somewhat bipolar, or something along that line. And she has been deprived of family contacts or any normal human contacts since she was a child. I thought it shows like there is always a little girl inside, wanting to get her brother attention and love, but she doesn't know other ways except being destructive.

 

I mean who would have thought there is a sword and gun hidden in that umbrella. I also somehow had him down as somehow less squeamish I guess, but it's nice to see his and everyone elses more fragile side for a change.

Gatiss must be very happy that his wish comes true. :p

Well at least now I will not laugh at Mycroft again, for carrying one rain or shine, or indoor. In fact, I want one!

 

 

Oh, so disappointed that Jim wasn't alive! I was so pleased to see him back, and looking forward to a convoluted explanation of how he pretended to shoot himself in the head....

 

Moriarty... I was so excited when he turned up, a new tune playing (instead of 'Staying Alive')... and then I read 'five years ago'. Bummer!

 

Really? I mean are you guys really want Moriaty to be alive?

My reaction was the other way around, Wait.....noooo! I like Andrew and Moriarty but in flashbacks. Him being alive that would have cheapen the whole thing imo

 

 

Oh, by the way, I think they just have shown us a nice, suitable place for us all. Only the walls need a bit of paint. And good padding.

 

And we'd have so many TVs to watch Sherlock on!

But I prefer the TV to have better colors, and where are those remotes? And cakes? 'Llloooooo!
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Am I the only one that thinks that Moffatiss threw all of Euros' characterisation out of the window by making her the girl on the aeroplane?

 

Think of how Euros was portrayed before Sherlock returned to his old home in the 5th game: Euros was somone with no moral code. That's what her first 4 games were all about. That's why she wanted John or Mycroft to shoot the director. That's why she killed all the 3 hanging suspects. That's why she asked Sherlock to choose between Mycroft and John. Euros was trying to prove that morality was nothing. There was no such thing as good and bad. That these are all fairy tales we told ourselves to justify our survival. Euros even said this in the tapes that John and Mycroft were watching. Additionally in one of the tapes, when one of the guys asked her about why she doesn't have a moral code, Euros said it was because she was too clever. That's what Euros was. She was so smart that she considered everyone else to be ants and that's why she had no problem stomping over them.

 

However the girl on the plane has the opposite personality to Euros. She clearly does have a view of good and bad. How else can she be scared of a plane crashing and nobody helping her? She clearly is afraid of dying. 

 

How am I suppose to buy that Euros and the girl on the plane are the same person? Their personalities are completely opposite. The only thing that makes sense is if Euros has two different personalities but that's not stated anywhere in the episode so I doubt there's enough evidence for that view to be plausible.

 

Honestly Euros' personality changes completely after the 4th game. When Sherlock is in his home in the 5th game, Euros starts talking to him about how she had no friend and how she was alone. She makes it sound like something bad but that goes against how she was behaving earlier. What happened to there being no good and bad in her eyes?

 

It looks like to me that this episode was rewritten in the last minute. It looks like initially the girl on the aeroplane was a different person but Moffatiss decided to rewrite her as Euros because they thought it would be clever or something. I honestly think it would have been better if Euros was just a deranged psychopath for the entire episode.

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Well. Interesting.

I just finished watching it again and had a completely different reaction than I did the first time. This time I thought it was pretty good. Not their best, but (mostly) good enough. Hm. I think I'm going to have to keep processing this one, I can't even think of any questions yet. :blink: But some of it actually moved me, and that's not always easy to do.

@VBS ... about time you showed up. Slacker. :P

And hello and welcome to all the new folks! Hope you'll all hang around for awhile, and we'll help each other figure out what we just saw. And figure out how to survive without any more.... :blink:

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Yes, welcome to the new folks!  If we are going to have to make do with 10 very high quality episodes, we will have to have lots of smart people analyzing all the bits and pieces!

 

One thing that got me on the second viewing was that I think Mycroft needed to do significantly less parenting during Sherlock's childhood.  I mean, yes, we needed to get the secret sister in there, but what adult parents in their right minds see their son repress the memory of his best friend and his own sister and allow that to go on without some sort of therapy?  I think Mycroft stepped into a gap that he maybe didn't need to, but it wouldn't have been as good an episode if it was just Sherlock's repressed memory of 13 years of therapy or something.   :P

 

I agree with whoever upstream commented that exceptional intelligence doesn't really come with mind control abilities (or psychosis, for that matter).  We're actually perilously close to making the argument that high intelligence is good but super-high intelligence is scary, which isn't really the case.

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I'm still not over this, and not sure about it.  I am going to watch it again now.

 

I gave it a 10/10, because it moved me, and I was literally sitting on the edge of the sofa for most of the show, but I'm not sure how much or if I actually like the episode. Doesn't make sense, I know. :) Then again, TV shows are meant to be entertaining, and this episode certainly did that to me.

 

I need to think more.

 

I really loved the fact that Moriarty was to come back and, yes, I was screaming at the screen, and was disappointed about the "5 years ago" even though I should have known better. Sherlock said he's dead, and Sherlock is always right, right? :P

 

The whole "Monte Christo" theme reminded me of the "Fort Boyard" show in a way, I was like, seriously!? and I still don't get why Euros was able to control everyone just with her voice. And the girl on the airplane was just confusing me for most of the episode. Again, I need to rewatch it and hope that with the knowledge of what happens I'll be able to make up my mind if I like this or not - I certainly enjoyed it though.

 

 

 

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Ohh, Fort Boyard, I used to love that show as a teen! :bouncy:

 

I keep reading about ten episodes - did I miss one series being declared non-canon (if so, and we are allowed to pick, my vote's for 3! :P), for else I'm counting 13 of them (plus Many Happy Returns). Ooooh, now they just *have* to make at least one more, come to think of it. :lol:

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as we all know sherlock has some problems with emotions... and i really dont think that he really knew what theese few seconds and 3 words ment to poor molly...

 

I actually think he does.

He didn't at first, as we see his usual inept understanding about it at the beginning of the call. But then it gets him and at the end when he destroys the coffin is his actual frustation about what he had done, to me it has two meaning and both are possible:

 

1. It's true.

When he said it, we see how his voice breaks with pained expression. It could be a moment of realization that he, indeed, loves her.

Well, most would probably say, how could someone not realizing their own feelings? It's very possible, in fact it happens to a lot of people, and it's even more convincing when it happens to someone like Sherlock. He didn't know it, he tried not to think about it, he tried to fight it, he tried to ignore it he decided not to do anything about it, and he actually never knew that he had it.

 

2. He doesn't love her.

And he understand what it means when he said those words to Molly. How emotionally destructive and cruel it could be and it breaks him. He knows this particular one is really crossing the line if he doesn't mean it, eventhough Mycroft and John can help him explain, there will be impacts to both Sherlock and Molly relationship.

 

 

Great explanation of the two possibilities! The more I think about it, the more I love this scene. Molly is just... wonderful. Her (apparently) unrequited love for Sherlock seems indestructable. Unconditional.

 

 

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Oh, so disappointed that Jim wasn't alive! I was so pleased to see him back, and looking forward to a convoluted explanation of how he pretended to shoot himself in the head....

Moriarty... I was so excited when he turned up, a new tune playing (instead of 'Staying Alive')... and then I read 'five years ago'. Bummer!

 

Really? I mean are you guys really want Moriaty to be alive?

My reaction was the other way around, Wait.....noooo! I like Andrew and Moriarty but in flashbacks. Him being alive that would have cheapen the whole thing imo

 

:D  Yes, we are just that crazy! Honestly, the guy just makes me laugh and smile, because Andrew Scott plays him brilliantly! At this point, I am not so bothered about 'cheapening' the show... sorry. I've seen too much :) If I was to worry about all the stuff that doesn't make sense in Sherlock, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it anymore, so somewhere along the way I decided to take it for what it is. Which is still incredibly entertaining and often very heart-warming and gut-wrenching!

 

 

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I think the reason why I liked Moriarty so much, and was disappointed that he hadn't really returned, was his humour. Yes, he was creepy, murderous and clearly insane but he was funny.  The other main villains were just creepy and/or mad.  Jim was nasty but his character was allowed flashes of humour and, for me, the humour in this show has always been an important part of the story.

 

I don't really agree that Season 4 has squashed Johnlock in any way.  Obviously we have seen that John likes the ladies but, for Johnlockers, he likes them "as well."  Sherlock is occasionally in touch with Irene but we don't know anything about their relationship, so maybe he just texts her when he's bored and lonely. (Missing John?)  And he was upset when he had to force Molly to admit she loved him but maybe he has finally realised how painful that love is for her and how much he has hurt her.  On the other side of the argument, we have Sherlock hugging John - maybe that's just a normal human reaction when someone is distressed, but it fits into a lot of Johnlock scenarios.  At the end, of course, we see John apparently back in 221b with Rosie and the three of them happily together, like Two Men And A Baby.  This wasn't a season which seemed inspired by Johnlock - that was season 3 - but it will still fit pretty well into fanfiction on that theme.

 

On a totally different point entirely, if one small child evidently abducted another and refused to say where he was, wouldn't the police and social services be involved straight away?  Would she still be at home and able to burn down the house?

 

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At this point, I am not so bothered about 'cheapening' the show... sorry. I've seen too much :) If I was to worry about all the stuff that doesn't make sense in Sherlock, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it anymore, so somewhere along the way I decided to take it for what it is. Which is still incredibly entertaining and often very heart-warming and gut-wrenching!

This is possibly the most sensible comment I have ever read. :D Not that it will stop me from obsessing...

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Loved the beginning and the end. Not sure yet about everything in between. Demands rewatching again and again and again ... No idea how to vote.

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Yes, it was disappointing and apparently a lot of other viewers felt the same way:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-16/sherlock-records-its-lowest-ever-overnight-audience-with-59m-tuning-into-series-four-finale

 

Let's hope that Moffat and Gatiss learn that there is such a thing as too much of an emotional roller coaster.

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