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The Final Problem - how do we actually enjoy this episode? SPOILERS AHEAD :-)


T.o.b.y
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Some of you might like to read this. I'm not fond of the title (it makes too many assumptions about fans, imo) but otherwise it makes some good points. Why Die Hard Fans Shouldn't Hate the Season Finale: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/01/sherlock-the-final-problem-benedict-cumberbatch-martin-freeman-mark-gatiss

 

That's an excellent article, and the one it links through to about fan shipping is also a good analysis.

 

I also really like JP's idea of Sherlock texting us, the viewers.  That's a nice thought.

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Any chance you could post a link to the article you mention, Boton? I can't seem to see it, and that web page has taken a sudden dislike to my laptop. :rolleyes:

 

And any idea why that article is in the sports section? :d

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Watched it again this afternoon, and I just can't understand why so many dislike it so much. It makes me so sad for everyone involved.

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I dunno. It's very different certainly from the early episodes that made me fall in love with the series, but it doesn't take away from them either, which would bother me if it were the case.

 

Many aspects that the episode (and indeed the entire fourth series) has been criticized for are ones that I actually like. For example, I read in multiple reviews that there was a lack of proper "consequences". One person actually complained that all three men came out of Euros' experiment alive. This ain't Game of Thrones, guys! I like my beloved fictional characters to be safe. I like fiction that promises what real life cannot, namely that some boundaries will never be crossed and that all will be well in the end. Like I said before the series aired, at its heart, Sherlock is a kind show and in an increasingly unkind world, this is becoming more and more important for me.

 

I guess I don't mind Sherlock's humanization so much for the same reason. I think I read an interview with Mark Gatiss a while ago where he said that in the light of current real world events, he felt the need to write a gentler hero and I sympathize with that entirely. Besides, this Sherlock reminds me the most of the Victorian gentleman detective whom I fell in love with.

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I thought he was texting Greg, in homage to episode 1. Though, if that were the case, I think it would mean they consider it the final episode :(

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Aha!  I just remembered what may be one major reason why I was disappointed with this episode.  (Which I realize is off-topic, but I'm still too chicken to go into the main episode thread, so my only alternative would be to start a thread called "The Final Problem -- why do we actually dislike this episode?" and I don't think I'd care to read some of those responses!  Besides, this is self-analysis, not carping about the episode itself, honest!)

 

Back when Tim first put up the TFP thread, I read the synopsis at the top, which he had apparently copied from IMDb (though they have a different one now):  "Holmes and Watson travel to Europe to escape Moriarty's vengeance."  Now it turns out that the word-for-word same synopsis appears on IMDb for the Jeremy Brett episode of the same name, which may explain how the mix-up occurred.  But I didn't know that at the time.  I just thought, Oh, good, they're going with the same basic plot as the original (though of course their details will be far different.  So I was expecting sort of a "buddy" road film, certainly nothing quite that -- umm, intense.  I was thinking more along the lines of Great Game Goes to Europe.

 

But that's not what I got.  :o

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I'll list mine first, then I come back to comment on you guys later, because otherwise I'd never catch up.

 

I enjoy this episode. It's bummer that many don't.

 

- like the drone scene

I don't care that the explosion looks cheap. I really like the dynamic between those three. The circular quick deduction and understanding. It's special because I did this with my buddy in one or two occasion. Obviously it's not the same, but situation is similar, we had to make quick decision about what we should do when we were about to be attacked by a nasty fish. Fish! But nastier than shark, trust me. I witnessed my friend bleeding from the head. Others that I only heard lost chunk of ears and nipple (I'm not sure why it's exposed!).

Anyway, nice scene. Love every bits of it, and wish I am as happy as Mrs.Hudson when I vacuum, but I'm horrible dancer.

 

- I saw Sherlock behind the governor before he was revealed, and recognized Mycroft. Previously I recognize the therapist to look like the fake daughter, and saw that the daughter earlier and the one who visited Sherlock is not the same, but I failed to recognized girl on the bus, although I was very suspicious with the hair and heavy make up.

 

- sherlock's childhood

We finally get to know what Redbeard is. Although it's not as impactful as I wish, we are told that Sherlock used to be an emotional kid and it changes him. Not sure I fully buy that but we can analyze this for years later.

He was a pirate!

Gives more meaning to Mycroft's scene at the end of SIB. Is there a lot of sadness there when he said Initially, he wants to be a pirate.?

And he quickly offered Sherlock cigarette when Irene 'died'.

Mycroft is a wonderful big brother to Sherlock, although he doesn't always know how to do it right. And horrible big brother to Eurus. It probably drives him crazy. Poor Mycroft. Yes, I sympathize with his character more now that I see tons of new material about his flaws.

 

- him grumbling on and on and on to the governor. :D. John was right, Shut up Mycroft! :D I know the urgency, but I love how inept he was.

 

- molly

Poor girl. Poor Sherlock. Horrible coffin.

Why did she look so sad before the call? I can't figure that out, but she really did.

 

- moriarty

I love Queen too!

 

- more Sherlock, John, Mycroft

Excellent actors.

 

- Sherlock, Sherlock, Sherlock, Sherlock

BC, excellent acting.

 

Geez. Real life calls! I told it to delete my number! Aiz.. laterz.

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I like your various takes on who Sherlock texted! And I had forgotten that he sent the same text to Lestrade in ASIP. Nice!

 

The drone scene was great! Came as a scary surprise, and I loved seeing the three boys collaborating. Quite heartwarming, actually.

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Any chance you could post a link to the article you mention, Boton? I can't seem to see it, and that web page has taken a sudden dislike to my laptop. :rolleyes:

 

And any idea why that article is in the sports section? :D

 

No clue about the sports section!

 

Here's the article:

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/7/11950648/fandom-shipping-social-justice-ideological-warfare

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I liked the part with the drone as well. Of course the situation is factually preposterous, but I love how the characters react to it and interact with each other. I think that can actually be said about the whole episode. If you look at what's actually happening, it's utter nonsense but if you look at the characters and their emotions and communication, it's lovely.

 

I am more interested in people and relationships than events and action, so of course I am happy when a show caters to my priorities. Of course ideally, all these things are clever, original and appealing, which was true of the early Sherlock episodes, but I would be far more upset if they had lowered the quality of the characterizations than that of the plots.

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There were so many moments that I loved. For a start I could literally not look away. it was definitely one of the most gripping Sherlock episodes I've ever seen. The acting was superb throughout (I mean yes it always is, but just that little bit more so in that one).

 

There were so many little moments and references. I'm sure I missed a few of them, but I'm about ot rewatch it, so this time around I appreciate it even more.

 

All the familiy moments between Sherlock, Mycroft and John. Yes, John, because clearly John IS family by now to Sherlock, no matter how hard Mycroft wants to deny it. As someone with an older sister about with as much age difference in between as with Mycroft and Sherlock, it is really nice to see those two acting like true brothers, which has been happening a lot more this series is just great.

 

Mr. Hudson; yes, she essentially only had one scene, but she's just awesome, and the shift in the relationship between her and Mycroft was amazing to see after the way they set it up in the previous episode.

 

The Moriaty scenes, pure brilliance. I am glad he didn't come back from the dead, as it would have been really hard to explain, but I really loved that flash back. And the little dance between him and Euros with the glass in between was just weirdly mesmorising.

 

The brothers become more human. I like seeing some actual character development and this episode was all about the characters. Sherlock has come such a long way since the start of the show a few years back and I like that. It wasn't sudden and more of a steady development and has come to a nice final conclusion. And Mycroft: Look, he's got human attributes after all. He's always been one of my favourite characters and I always hoped they'd do more character development for him and there it finally was. It was nice to see what he does in his free time and to actually see him scared and almost a bit lost when he lost control of the situation. So I thought that was really nice. And seeing and learning about their childhood was a nice gem too. I felt like it explained a lot about why they are how they are now.

 

Although the episode was dark, it wasn't depressing. It's a difficult thing to do and I think they pulled that off pretty well.

 

I might think of a few others once I have rewatched it. But even having only seen it once, I just think there was an awful lot to like about it.

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Any chance you could post a link to the article you mention, Boton? I can't seem to see it, and that web page has taken a sudden dislike to my laptop. :rolleyes:

 

And any idea why that article is in the sports section? :D

 

No clue about the sports section!

 

Here's the article:

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/7/11950648/fandom-shipping-social-justice-ideological-warfare

 

 

Thanks, Boton. I think I've read at least part of that before. It reminds me of my own argument about creator's rights .... this is another good reason people should respect them. I would be terrified if something like that happened to something I created, and very, very angry. Ah, well.

 

Meanwhile, how do we enjoy this episode ... does that thread title really mean what it says? Don't we enjoy it by watching it (or not watching it, as the case may be?) Hmmm.

 

Anyway, did my third watching last night, and while it will never be one of my favorite episodes (too grim for that) I like it pretty darn well now. Except for one thing (which I will get to elsewhere) it largely makes sense; and I'm a sucker for the "love conquers all" theme anyway. So I'm still content.

 

And having seen it a few times now, I see no reason at all for it to be difficult to go on. Give the man a puzzle and let him go solve it, fer cryin' out loud. He's merely grown up now, not dead. Tell a new story. But I agree they don't need to continue; they've brought it to a good stopping point. And I hate to say this, but to my eye, everyone looks a little tired of doing it. Or maybe they're just tired, period. :smile:

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My heart really went out to Mycroft in those home movies. He seemed like he was aching for a friend too. I really wonder about the way those kids grew up

Yes, he really looked kind of lonely, but a happy big brother watching the others play. What gets me more are his little smiles when the video suddenly popped up between the movie that he watches. I think that is him at his most honest time. Poor poor Mycroft. I think if there is one who gives the most sacrifice, it's probably him. In his concept, he is trying to protect everyone in the family, albeit in quite questionable ways. But he always tries!

 

He probably thinks he protects Eurus too by taking her away and prevents her for committing worse crime, he creates the lies about Redbeard to protect Sherlock, always. He constantly checks on Sherlock, on his side when he was high, forcing him to make a list, and looking back to SIP, he must be worried for John coming to Sherlock's life as another Redbeard. All lives end, all hearts are broken. He tries to make Sherlock not to get involved with anything because he doesn't want Redbeard to repeat. Your lost will break my heart.

Caring is disadvantage because it actually describes himself. He tries to shield his parents from the truth because he thought it would protect them and kinder. Poor poor Mycroft. At the end of the day, I think he becomes what he is because he is always trying to protect everyone in the family, especially Sherlock. And he keeps all those to himself, donning cold interior, lumping all those big secrets he works so hard to keep. Can't tell, can't share, can't explain, can't show that he cares that much. That is kind of crazy.

 

I think I change my mind, I don't want to be Mycroft. He is a very tortured character.

Mycroft needs a hug.

I'm contacting my big brother today to say something nice, I have not been a very lovable sister.

 

What I also love is that Sherlock finally understands all that about Mycroft. He is 'nicer' to him too, there are kind words and he tries to stand by Mycroft during the family discussion. It's really nice.

 

 

But they didn't. More than just settle back into their old places, they actively rebuilt their lair. They put the headphones back on the animal skull, they spray-painted the smiley back on the wall and they shot the holes back where they were. This is them actively choosing Baker St and their collaboration. It's no longer just the only option they have or a habit they can't break. It's a choice.

 

The junkie who solves cases to stay high and the doctor who never came home from the war - I do believe they're happy now and that makes me happy. It also makes me forgive an awful lot that I didn't like about the fourth series. This ending was worth it. And it couldn't really have come much sooner.

 

So, for me, it's all fine.

Yes. I'm very glad that the flat was burned down because it's nice to see them set it back again. It feels kind of surreal when they are sitting there and Mrs. Hudson appears. Suddenly I want Mrs. Hudson figurine as well.

 

 

Clever Sherlock. You're not the idiot of the family at all.

I was thinking, there are many similar phrase uttered along the line of associating Sherlock Holmes with smartest person in the room. Well, he was not even the second smartest during his young day. :P But he doesn't have to be one, if that means the smartest is murderous and the second smartest have to be a Mycroft.

He has the most heart, who would have thunk that? But he is.

 

 

Coming at it from a different angle and taking the thread title quite literally ...

 

So far, I've enjoyed it by 1) watching it again (much, much better reaction the second time around!) and 2) discussing all the different bits, good and bad, with you lot.

 

It reminds me of that survey someone posted on here a few months ago ... one of the questions was something like "how has Sherlock affected your life?" And my answer was something like "The show hasn't affected me nearly as much as being on this forum and discussing it has." I guess I'm a little bit like Sherlock in that way; it really helps me to see something through someone else's eyes. Of course, then I will go and dismiss all of you as idiots and go ahead and draw my own conclusions, but hey. :P

 

KIDDING!!!!!!!!

Well, I'm disappointed you are kidding..! If you have to call us idiots, own it! :P

 

And now that I've said that, I'm going to go over there now and probably find out that all hell has broken loose ... :blink:

Ow.. I haven't gone there since my last posting. Can I not go? At all????

I can't now. So maybe if I never go again, it will go away...?

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And above all I would love a 5 second scene with him and Molly talking to each other. With tears in their eyes - both of them. And then Molly touching his hand and him covering her hand with his other one. This.

Actually I don't want that.

Tbh, that would spoil it for me. Not sure why. Maybe because that is a wrap up of a drama series.

I love 221B wrap-up. Everything is the same, with a baby now. They can go to various way from this, but that's why it's perfect.

 

 

One tidbit that I liked that I nearly forgot is that, in the end in the "happy" montage, Sherlock is texting something like, "You know where to find me -SH."

 

 

I thought he was texting Greg, in homage to episode 1. Though, if that were the case, I think it would mean they consider it the final episode :(

Yes. I though it's for Greg. But I was looking it differently. As a beginning, not an end.

 

 

Aha!  I just remembered what may be one major reason why I was disappointed with this episode.  (Which I realize is off-topic, but I'm still too chicken to go into the main episode thread, so my only alternative would be to start a thread called "The Final Problem -- why do we actually dislike this episode?" and I don't think I'd care to read some of those responses!  Besides, this is self-analysis, not carping about the episode itself, honest!)

 

Back when Tim first put up the TFP thread, I read the synopsis at the top, which he had apparently copied from IMDb (though they have a different one now):  "Holmes and Watson travel to Europe to escape Moriarty's vengeance."  Now it turns out that the word-for-word same synopsis appears on IMDb for the Jeremy Brett episode of the same name, which may explain how the mix-up occurred.  But I didn't know that at the time.  I just thought, Oh, good, they're going with the same basic plot as the original (though of course their details will be far different.  So I was expecting sort of a "buddy" road film, certainly nothing quite that -- umm, intense.  I was thinking more along the lines of Great Game Goes to Europe.

 

But that's not what I got.  :o

That is why I don't want to watch trailer or read synopsis anymore, for Sherlock.

And that is awful, awful synopsis. Moriarty??? They are damned if it's right, and damned if it's not. Why would they write that?!?

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I like your various takes on who Sherlock texted! And I had forgotten that he sent the same text to Lestrade in ASIP. Nice!

 

The drone scene was great! Came as a scary surprise, and I loved seeing the three boys collaborating. Quite heartwarming, actually.

 

I agree about the drone scene, I loved the "Good luck, boys" at the end of it.  

 

Whatever my issues were with the episode, I enjoy the fact that it is still the best TV series to ever air, even at its worst (whatever that may be for each of us) it's still the best. 

 

Oh and I loved the ending, which felt like a door opening wide into new adventures and left me with with a huge smile on my face.

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No clue about the sports section!

 

Here's the article:

 

http://www.vox.com/2016/8/7/11950648/fandom-shipping-social-justice-ideological-warfare

The article made me feel like fandom is equal shipping and has been for ever. (you know nothing, JP)

Do we need another name for us non-shippers?

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I think that's called living in Switzerland, with the Swiss being landlocked, thus, no ships (disregarding Lake Constance and every other body of water, but ah well). Lots of other countries are landlocked too, mine own included, but I guess Switzerland is the term of choice because of their repuation for neutrality.

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Wouldn't know of it ... generally speaking, non-shippers seem less organized into fandom groups because, well, they don't have a common ship to bind over. :mellow: It's a pity, imo, especially when it comes to fanfiction ... not that I dislike shipping fics, but sometimes I'd just like to read a good story, and many of them have so little beyond the physical, while what few gen (non-ship) fics there are get buried in an avalanche of tangled limbs. If I were any more organized and/or better at programming, I might have long ago started a website for gen and canon-only fanfics; again, not because I dislike shipping fics but because ao3 is already swamped with those anyway, and variety is the spice of life.

 

eta: I found one Team Switzerland, but they're neutral shipping-wise, not necessarily non-shippers, and besides they're from the Twilight fandom.

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A couple more things I enjoyed about this episode:

 

- How Sherlock, John, and Mycroft kept each other going by reminding each other to be "soldiers".  

- How I could swear Mycroft from "five years ago" had slightly more hair than current Mycroft. (Mark Gatiss must have loved that lol)

- How Sherlock ran in the night with the billowing coat and the lantern (decidedly not a modern flashlight) that felt SO Jeremy Brett / Victorian that it just gave me chills. 

 

Gah!  This episode is winning me over.

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I think this is promising news for a Series 5:

 

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-01-20/mark-gatiss-and-steven-moffat-reveal-where-sherlock-could-go-in-series-5

 

As to whether there will be a fifth series, Moffat added: “If this was the last time – we’re not planning it, but it might be, it’s possible – we could end it there. We couldn’t have ended it on any of the previous series because they always ended up with whopping great cliffhangers." 

 

He said a fifth series would see Sherlock and John – no surprises here – "solving crimes". :D :sherlock:

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 If I were any more organized and/or better at programming, I might have long ago started a website for gen and canon-only fanfics; again, not because I dislike shipping fics but because ao3 is already swamped with those anyway, and variety is the spice of life.

 

 

 

Jolie_Black has a community on AO3.  It isn't strictly no pairings, but the pairings have to be directly supported by canon, so functionally most of these are Gen.

 

http://archiveofourown.org/collections/BBC_Sherlock_Fanfiction_for_Canon_Addicts

 

Also, maybe we could just start a thread on this forum, too?  It would be nice to have another place to reference when you want a Gen-only fic that doesn't end in some sort of physical relationship for somebody.  (So, what Warstan is really the only canon ship, right?)

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