Spoilers! "Six Thatchers" casual discussion

[Carol the Dabbler]

If you're looking for somewhere to chat about "The Six Thatchers" without wading through x pages of prior discussion and heated debates, this is the place! We love discussion, but don't take it too seriously, please!

[Carol the Dabbler]

I'm puzzled that most people don't seem to care for T6T. My reaction has been positive from the start. I haven't yet seen it enough times to feel that I know it well, but here are some things that I like about it (FINAL SPOILER ALERT!!!):

 

John is back in action. He's no longer the passive reactor that we saw in Last Vow.

 

The episode isn't silly like Empty Hearse or chock full of WTF like Last Vow.

 

The tension of wondering when/whether Mary will die is over. I like Mary, but hate waiting for shoes to drop.

 

Mary's death wasn't pointless. She died saving Sherlock -- even though it was his cockiness (and John's) that had lead them to that moment.

 

Sherlock makes mistakes. Pretty much nothing but mistakes, in fact. Not that I enjoy watching him screw up, but it's nice to see acknowledgement that he's only human.

 

Not that I like John "cheating" on Mary, but I do love Elizabeth -- even though she seemed too good to be true, and in fact turned out to be a fake. She's cute and I love her accent. I keep imagining her with Iain McKelpie (MF's Scottish character in Whiskey tango Foxtrot).

 

Is that enough for now?

[Arcadia]

I don't mind any of those things. My objection has more to do with 1) how the show looks ... like an episode of Mannix, not Sherlock; 2) how silly Sherlock acts in the first act; 3) the really really boring fight in the pool; and lastly and therefore in the place of honor ... 4) Mary's dying speech, which she bravely manages to finish just as she croaks. Urgh. Change all that I'm fine with it. :D
 
And you know me, I loved the WTF-ery in HLV, so it's absence here is sorely missed. :P Kidding. Partly.

[J.P.]

The worse in TST was that there were so many pointless changes on the set, that I kept wondering if it's real. Did Sherlock gave away his Blue Skull picture to Wiggins, as he thought he's flying to his death, and Mrs Hudson put another one on the wall, because she don't like empty space?

 

And did Sherlock ruined Ella's room during his first session, so she had to move to another?

 

Still haven't worked out the visuals and the blue-s. No free brain bandwidth right now, sorry.

[Amber§]

Maybe the changings weren't so pointless....I don't know if what I'm going to say have actually a point, but maybe the changings on the set could reflect the changings in the characther's life.

For exemple, my home is still the same since I was born, but sometimes we change something, we throw away old things, my mother lokes to buy some flowers, I like to reorganise my desk.....but when I change something in my part of bedroom, that's always because something happened. Maybe i argued with my best friend, so I decide to put away my photos with him, or things like that.

Maybe whe John moved, Sherlock and Mrs. Hudson decided to change something, consciounsly or not, like they're trying to face changings changing themselves.

[J.P.]

I understand changing in general, but TST begins directly after HLV/TAB. I would understand if they made the changes during the episode but no.

[Carol the Dabbler]

Y'know, I never noticed any of the set changes (other than Ella's new office, of course). Admittedly, I haven't watched any of the S4 eps more than two or three times, so of course I don't have things memorized yet, but mostly I think I've been paying attention to what was happening, trying to figure out why.

 

Arcadia, there's probably a very good reason why Mary finished her farewell speech at precisely the moment of her death -- she was dead (and therefore unable to deliver the remaining 27 pages). It didn't sound so much like a speech to me, as it did a bunch of things she'd always meant or wanted to tell them -- in which case, my only question would be, is it unrealistic that she was able to think of them in her condition, or did she simply have really good motivation (now or never!).

 

But yeah, I agree that the pool scene was boring. One more underwater fight. *yawn*

[Arcadia]

Y'know, I never noticed any of the set changes (other than Ella's new office, of course). Admittedly, I haven't watched any of the S4 eps more than two or three times, so of course I don't have things memorized yet, but mostly I think I've been paying attention to what was happening, trying to figure out why.

I don't know if it was anything to do with the sets, exactly, I just remember that this episode looked so freakin' different from anything they'd done before that I began to wonder if Stephen J. Cannell had risen from the dead and taken over the show. I'm more at peace with it now, but the first time I watched it, I simply loathed it. At the time I could have pointed to more specifics, but I was so upset by it, I think I've deleted them all from my hard drive. But it was nothing to do with the plot, it was all about the visuals.

 

Arcadia, there's probably a very good reason why Mary finished her farewell speech at precisely the moment of her death -- she was dead (and therefore unable to deliver the remaining 27 pages).

TOUCHE! Good one, Carol!! I'll have to remember that for when I, uhhh, have this conversation again ... ??? Never mind...

[T.o.b.y]

I liked the fight at the pool. I was all hyped up and cheering, clapping my hands and yelling "go get him, Sherlock!"

 

And I am a pacifist in real life... :-(

 

The main reason I am not fond of this episode is Mary's death scene which I consider awfully cheesy and uninspired and all the AGRA stuff which just didn't interest me much.

[Arcadia]

I liked the first part of the fight okay, when we could actually see how cool Sherlock's moves were. But once they were in the water ... yawn. Altho the shot they use in the opening credits, of him dripping wet and standing tall against Ajay, ain't so bad either.

[bedelia1984]

I rather liked the fight in the pool, not sure why, probably shallow reasons!

 

Or maybe I'm a bit slow on the uptake, because it took me a while to realise that, oh, wait we're really spending the whole episode on all this A.G.R.A business, of which I then thought there was too much.

 

I didn't like Mary's death scene either, and I didn't like that they killed her with her and John in such an iffy place. I would have liked to at least see a bit more happiness for them first. It seems really harsh for me that they were at the hardest part of getting used to the baby, John having doubts etc and then Mary was just gone.

 

Sherlock annoyed me at the start, because he was acting so immaturely. I felt bad for Mycroft, actually. I also  need to rewatch his interactions with Lady Smallwood, I did not see anything simmering there!  And he did try to accuse her of treason too- though maybe that's a Holmes method of flirting? She most know him really well, if she knows about the 'other one'. I began to see Mycroft a bit more as the voice of the writers in this episode, especially when he said about Mary having a short shelf life. I felt like that was Gatiss speaking directly to us, saying, get ready guys, Mary is not long for this world.

 

I liked the christening even just for seeing everyone together, and Sherlock taking the dog along later was fun too. 

[Inge l-w]

Well, there is an Ao3 fan fiction called Who I want to be, where Sherlock tackles Mr Gatiss and John tackles Mr Moffat: "You like Bond", and Dr Watson's answer is 'YOU like Bond'. The whole debacle in a nutshell, really.