Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Janyss

French Sherlocked

Recommended Posts

Hi, first of all forgive my mistakes!

To me Sherlock Holmes has been an old friend, but one of those you sometimes forget about. But one day,someone brings him back to you! This time he's brought back by a re-re-broadcasting on French TV, and above all by a crazy duet of British writers! Oh, and God, how young he is! And with the craziest band of friends, and a brother we had hardly heard about. By the way, I love Sherlock and John but my favorite Is Mycroft here. Personnaly I'm in my fourties and history geography teacher. Hope you'll discuss Sherlock with me in spite of mistakes :)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, Janyss -- welcome to Sherlock Forum! :welcome:

 

You'll find a bunch of other Mycroft fans here. Looks like you'll fit right in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Janyss, welcome aboard! Glad you found Sherlock, and us ... we always like introducing new people to our madness. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much :)!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Janyss,

Welcome!

Don't worry, I make more mistakes than you and they haven't kicked me out yet.

 

What is your favorite Mycroft's moments?

Do you know he likes cake? (I didn't know, but some crazies here say he does :))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Van Buren Supernova! *lazy mode on* Do you allow me to call you VBS next time? *lazy mode off*.

 

Thanfs for welcoming and making me confident!

 

Well, I don't know all dear M's scenes, but I'm fond of his face-to-face with Watson (perfect here too) in the pilot, and of "the bed sheet scene" in Scandal in Belgravia, both funny and tense. Sometimes in just a moment, he brings a whole atmosphere (eg: exhausted in The hounds of Baskerville when realizing Sherlock has used his name, about to shout in the very room of the Diogene's club when reading about his brother's suicide -we're not supposed to know what's behind in that moment).

 

Shortly: :wub: :wub: :wub:. Anywhere. Anytime (as far as I've seen).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bienvenue, Janyss!

 

I am also very fond of this Mycroft.  Mark Gatiss gives him personality and he and Benedict create a very real-seeming relationship as brothers.

 

Did you know that Mark Gatiss and Benedict C. met on a movie they did together in 2005 called "Starter for 10"?  Mark plays real-life University Challenge quiz host Bamber Gasgoigne.  It's a comedy, and I highly recommend it.  BC plays a nerdy engineering student who is the captain of the quiz team (and not nearly as smart as Sherlock).

 

I think 5 years later, when casting for Sherlock, this meeting came in handy!  Like Mark G., Benedict is a natural redhead . . ginges stick together!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Janys, we all call VBS "VBS". It's not laziness. It's efficiency. :D


*note to self: what about a T-shirt with that line?*

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Besides, it annoys her.  :naughty:

 

She'd rather be called Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious instead.  (Or Floccinaucinihilipilification for short.)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Merci, Hikari!

I have read that BC was Moffat and Gatiss' one and only choice for portraying Sherlock, what you tell me explains this more. Indeed they are perfect together! Thus of course there are so many things apart from Mycroft's character I'm fond of in the show, and quite all the actors and their interactions are so good. I'll have much to develop, as I have just received my DVDs to watch English version. The French one is very good, but you always miss something : eg, in French I didn't really pick up the importance of Watson missing the war atmosphere. His French "oh oui" when Sherlock asks his help for the firs time only sounds childish, while Freeman's "oh God yes!" is widely darker.  

 

Well for long aliases...I have to admit mine is a short form assigned by another forum's admins when they read my first choice, so I won't teach anyone a lesson about it! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

J.,

 

Around the time they were casting for "Sherlock", Moffat was also looking for his new Doctor (Who).  He and BC had chatted briefly about the Doctor.  Seems like most British guys within a certain age range fantasize about being the Doctor.  I confess that the appeal of Doctor Who escapes me, but I have liked his actors.  I am least familiar with #11, Matt Smith, because I haven't seen any of his episodes.  All the Doctors have been quirky, but he is a particularly weird-looking young man.  Prior to selecting Martin Freeman for Watson, who was the last actor to read for the part and after that they said "We're Done!!" . . they probably auditioned 2 dozen actors.  One of them was Matt Smith.  Mr. Smith is a bit younger than BC, also taller and if possible, even lankier.  Not right for Watson, but he got the consolation prize of the (other) Doctor, though.

 

It's fortunate that your English is excellent because I think our cast should be heard in their native language for optimum enjoyment of this show.  I don't think Benedict in particular has a French equivalent . . but perhaps he does.  Ben has a very deep baritone--is that how French Sherlock sounds? 

 

I hope you enjoy your DVDs.  I'm a native English speaker (American variant) but watching British shows on the telly has taught me a whole new vocabulary as well, so you aren't alone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One Dr Who actor, Tom Baker, has also played Sherlock Holmes.

 

I was interested to hear Janyss saying that BC was the only choice for Sherlock. It was the same when Universal were thinking of doing a series of Sherlock Holmes movies. Basil Rathbone was the first name suggested. I think that it was pretty much the same for Nigel Bruce. I’m unsure if they ever considered anyone else before going for Brett in the Grenada series.

I’ve heard of a few cases in the past where famous actors were offered parts that other actors ended up being famous for. The only 2 that I can recall are Dirty Harry (Frank Sinatra) and Hannibal Lecter (Gene Hackman)

Was someone offered Indiana Jones before Harrison Ford?

Anyone know any other examples?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve just found a few.

 

Sean Connery was offered Gandalf !

John Travolta was offered Forrest Gump.

Warren Beatty was offered the title in Kill Bill.

Will Smith was offered Neo in The Matrix.

Nicholas Cage was offered the part of the wrestler eventually played by Mickey Rourke.

Jack Nicholson turned down Michael Corleone in The Godfather.

It was Tom Selleck that turned down Indiana Jones.

Harrison Ford turned down Alan Grant in Jurassic Park.

Maryland Monroe turned down Holly Golightly in Breakfast At Tiffany’s.

Nicholas Cage turned down Aragorn.

Christopher Plummer also turned down Gandalf ( so the role was turned down by a former Bond and a former Holmes to be taken by another former Holmes)

Ian McKellen passed up the role of Dumbledore in Harry Potter.

Molly Ringwald turned down the lead in Pretty Woman.

Henry Winkler turned down Danny Zucco in Grease.

Bette Miller turned down the Whoopie Goldberg role in Sister Act.

Will Smith turned down Django.

Hugh Jackman turned down Bond.

 

A few surprises for me there.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve just found a few.

 

Sean Connery was offered Gandalf !

John Travolta was offered Forrest Gump.

Warren Beatty was offered the title in Kill Bill.

Will Smith was offered Neo in The Matrix.

Nicholas Cage was offered the part of the wrestler eventually played by Mickey Rourke.

Jack Nicholson turned down Michael Corleone in The Godfather.

It was Tom Selleck that turned down Indiana Jones.

Harrison Ford turned down Alan Grant in Jurassic Park.

Maryland Monroe turned down Holly Golightly in Breakfast At Tiffany’s.

Nicholas Cage turned down Aragorn.

Christopher Plummer also turned down Gandalf ( so the role was turned down by a former Bond and a former Holmes to be taken by another former Holmes)

Ian McKellen passed up the role of Dumbledore in Harry Potter.

Molly Ringwald turned down the lead in Pretty Woman.

Henry Winkler turned down Danny Zucco in Grease.

Bette Miller turned down the Whoopie Goldberg role in Sister Act.

Will Smith turned down Django.

Hugh Jackman turned down Bond.

 

A few surprises for me there.

 

Herl,

 

Chris Plummer as Gandalf . . he could have done it.  His Gandalf would have been a touch twinklier. (no, that doesn't mean gay, at least not here.)

 

The less said about Sir Sean as Gandalf, the better.  Ditto JACK as Michael Corleone.

 

Tom Selleck was forced to abandon Indiana Jones due to his contractual commitment to 'Magnum, PI', which despite having financial difficulties that ground production to a halt, leaving him stranded on Oahu without income for more than a year, refused to release him for other work that would take him off the island and immediate call-back. 

 

I like Tom, but I'm very glad that the role went to Harrison Ford.

 

Harrison no doubt turned down Alan Grant because it is not-at-all veiled homage to Indy Jones.  I am very glad the part went to the impish Kiwi beefcake, Sam Neill.

 

Marilyn Monroe was author Truman Capote's personal choice for Holly and may have been his inspiration when writing the character.  Must have crushed him when she said no.  Tru never went for Audrey  Hepburn, who he considered anorexic and all wrong for the part of a good-time girl.

 

Intel is a bit garbled about whether Hugh Jackman actually turned down the role of Bond or if it was Barbara Broccoli who turned him down for Bond.  It's all a bit hush-hush, because who wants to admit to tanking an audition for Bond?, but it is my understanding that four other actors auditioned for the role in the same casting round as eventual victor Daniel Craig:  Jackman, Ewan McGregor, Colin Farrell and the baby of the group, 22-year-old Henry Cavill. I recall reading somewhere that director Martin Campbell, who conducted the auditions was very impressed by Cavill, but he was ruled out due to his youth at the time.

 

Hugh would have been a throwback to an Aussie Bond, in the lone outing of George Lazenby in OHMSS, and he's got the height, the hair, the teeth and the mojo in a tux.  But with his series commitment already for Wolverine, I don't see how it would have worked out.  Plus I think these other guys were basically window dressing.  BB saw Dan C. in 2004's Layer Cake and I think she had her mind made up from that hour. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will Smith as Neo... I love Will Smith, but I can't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not laziness. It's efficiency.

If only I could use this excuse for every single thing in my life. XD

Can we use this when we feel too lazy to socialize?

*running away from social setting shouting on top of lung*

Dude, it's not laziness, it's efficiency not to waste my brain cell chatting up with you! No offense!

 

Besides, it annoys her.  :naughty:

 

She'd rather be called Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious instead.  (Or Floccinaucinihilipilification for short.)

Indeed!! :applause:

 

Well for long aliases...I have to admit mine is a short form assigned by another forum's admins when they read my first choice, so I won't teach anyone a lesson about it!

 

Aiz, what a restrictive admin/moderator you have.

In here, there is no way our lovely moderators refuse.. to call you what you want to be called.. or insist to call you something else.. wait.. Wait a minute, wait a minute here..!!

 

Ben has a very deep baritone--is that how French Sherlock sounds?

My curiosity as well, I think that is the biggest downside of Sherlock being subbed. Without the voice, I'm not sure I would pay a lot of attention to Sherlock as soon as half of Study in Pink.

 

Hannibal Lecter (Gene Hackman)

Which one? The one replaced by Anthony Hopkin?

I'm so glad it's not Gene Hackman!

Also so glad it's not Will Smith to play Neo. Neo is made for Keanu imo.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everybody,

Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).

Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everybody,

Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).

Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

 

Mycroft: I'll be Mother.

Sherlock:  And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

 

J.,

 

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well.  It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis.  I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too. 

 

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'.  This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child.  We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother.  That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen.  Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

 

So, what is French for 'brat'?  Maybe we even stole that word from you!  Le brat!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's something difficult...I absolutely don't know about the origin of the word, but you're right, it sounds like something that would have crossed the Channel with William the Conqueror. "Morveux" or "merdeux", used as nouns, are the translations I think of right now, but I'll ask fellows who teach English. Of course, it's a matter of background, as "merdeux" can have many other meanings. "Morveux" is really a specific word for some kind of children.

 

I really like that bed sheet scene, in French or in English. You constantly go from fun to tension and reverse. And John trying to keep the two boys together...love him, too. Oh God. Too many boys to fall in love with here!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Hi everybody,

Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).

Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

Mycroft: I'll be Mother.

Sherlock: And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

 

J.,

 

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well. It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis. I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too.

 

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'. This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child. We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother. That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen. Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

 

So, what is French for 'brat'? Maybe we even stole that word from you! Le brat!

Hi Hikari,

 

I just used an online translator and typed in ‘brat’ which came up as ‘gosse.’ Janyss can tell us if it’s correct.

 

I’m wary of translations after seeing a Monty Python sketch many years ago. It was about a guy who wrote a Hungarian Phrase book but the translations were all wrong. So you see a guy entering a shop, checking his Phrasebook and saying things like ‘please fondle my buttocks.’ Or ‘my hovercraft is full of eels.’

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi HerlockSholmes,

"gosse" is of course a good translation, but it is a more général word than "morveux". "Un gosse" can be very nice, affective...I think the English word for "gosse" would be more "kid", and to translate the negative connotation of " brat", you can say "sale gosse".

 

Monty Python..I like them, not a surprise they play on the absurd side of translations.

 

I have rewatched the tea scene, indeed the translation in French adds a few words to BC's zones, which brings more sarcasm. The sarcastic tone is more conveyed by the actor, Hikari is right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for that Janyss. I’ve found out previously that these online translators, whilst useful, can often miss the subtleties of the language.

An example of this that affected me was when I first got a Russian Sherlock Holmes series from the 1980’s on dvd. The series was very enjoyable but was marred by subtitles which were often poorly written. Probably by a Russian who spoke English.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, for some reason, a message I posted earlier doesn't appear. Hope there won't be any double.

 

Yes, "gosse" is a good translation, but if you want to convey the negative connotation of "brat", I think you would say "sale gosse". "Kid" is more neutral for "gosse".

 

Translation is something very interesting, I'm not surprised Monty Python played with the absurd side in some of them. I like them very much, and also many British programs, in fact. The 60's Avengers were aired in original version on French TV when I was a teenager, I think I began loving English with that. Later I saw The new statesmen. so, happy to be back to a British program!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Hi everybody,

Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).

Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

Mycroft: I'll be Mother.

Sherlock: And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

 

J.,

 

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well. It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis. I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too.

 

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'. This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child. We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother. That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen. Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

 

So, what is French for 'brat'? Maybe we even stole that word from you! Le brat!

Hi Hikari,

 

I just used an online translator and typed in ‘brat’ which came up as ‘gosse.’ Janyss can tell us if it’s correct.

 

I’m wary of translations after seeing a Monty Python sketch many years ago. It was about a guy who wrote a Hungarian Phrase book but the translations were all wrong. So you see a guy entering a shop, checking his Phrasebook and saying things like ‘please fondle my buttocks.’ Or ‘my hovercraft is full of eels.’

 

 

 

All things considered, 'my hovercraft is full of eels' would earn some funny looks, but is less damaging than 'Please fondle my buttocks'.  Because you know that some unscrupulous persons would take advantage of a foreigner to do just that.  And in this day and age, God knows, you can find plenty of folks willing to fondle your buttocks without your intentional permission in one's own country!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Hi everybody,

Not to glorify French actors, but the French version is good. The fact is that some actors with similar voices have been chosen. Obvious for Sherlock and Mycroft, a little less for John. But some scenes get a very different meaning because of what each word brings (eg, "queen" hasn't the English double meaning in French,and this affects the tone of the joke in the "bed sheet scene"), and the intonation of the actors can be different as well (in the same scene, Sherlock's reaction when Mycroft pours tea is more nostalgic in English and more sarcastic in French).

Anyway: two versions=more reasons to watch and rewatch :)!

Mycroft: I'll be Mother.

Sherlock: And *there* is an entire childhood in a nutshell.

 

J.,

 

This little exchange may appear nostalgic when it's written down, but believe me, Sherlock's English tone is completely sarcastic as well. It's not that he changes his tone in a particular way; it's a matter of emphasis. I'm pretty sure the face that went with it was sarcastic, too.

 

In that scene Sherlock is being what we call 'a brat'. This is the behavior exhibited by an immature, annoying child. We see continually that Sherlock Holmes reverts to a mental age of about 12 (or less) when he is in the presence of his elder brother. That's why I believe that Mycroft was forced to become his legal guardian when Sherlock was a young teen. Sherlock acts more like Mycroft's child than his (fully-adult) sibling at those times.

 

So, what is French for 'brat'? Maybe we even stole that word from you! Le brat!

Hi Hikari,

 

I just used an online translator and typed in ‘brat’ which came up as ‘gosse.’ Janyss can tell us if it’s correct.

 

I’m wary of translations after seeing a Monty Python sketch many years ago. It was about a guy who wrote a Hungarian Phrase book but the translations were all wrong. So you see a guy entering a shop, checking his Phrasebook and saying things like ‘please fondle my buttocks.’ Or ‘my hovercraft is full of eels.’

 

All things considered, 'my hovercraft is full of eels' would earn some funny looks, but is less damaging than 'Please fondle my buttocks'. Because you know that some unscrupulous persons would take advantage of a foreigner to do just that. And in this day and age, God knows, you can find plenty of folks willing to fondle your buttocks without your intentional permission in one's own country!

Congratulations on your promotion Hikari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of UseWe have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.Privacy PolicyGuidelines.