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Female Sherlock!


HerlockSholmes

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Someone else who knows more industry gossip than I can fill in the blanks, but I think after BC and JLM were in Frankenstein together, the Elementary team sought permission to do an Americanized Sherlock - kind of an adaptation of an adaptation.  The Sherlock side were pretty emphatic that they'd better not see their intellectual property reinterpreted.  So, if Elementary feels like someone trying very hard to not remake Sherlock, that's apparently because that's what it is.

 

That said, what I will give JLM and his Sherlock Holmes is his unparalleled ability to delivery relatively long ACD quotes and make them sound like they belong in modern American conversation. There is one episode where Sherlock is at an NA meeting, and he delivers his story using the "give me problems, give me work" speech.  I was absolutely floored.  I had never before heard that speech as anything but a mixture of admiration and frustration for Sherlock's own rapid cognitive abilities, but JLM delivered it with such remorse.  That Sherlock rued the fact that he was fine as long as he was distracted, but his own mind was his enemy, solving problems so quickly that he couldn't distract himself fast enough to stay away from heroin. For me, that is my favorite interpretation of that ACD scene amongst all of the Sherlock Holmes iterations I've seen.

 

I also liked JLM's delivery of the intro Irene Adler speech: "To [me], she was always The Woman..."  He is explaining the draw of Irene to Watson, and with only a few minor changes, he gives the ACD speech with great elevation, and then stops and says, "And the *sex*, Watson!  The things I learned!" 

 

I agree that the best feature of JLM's Sherlock are those long stretches of recitation from Conan Doyle.  There was relatively little of this in the first season, where visual cues to Conan Doyle were stuck in, rather willy-nilly in a show-offy sort of fashion.  Ie, SH keeps beehives on the roof of the brownstone, which could be realistic--but the fact that honey is oozing through the ceiling and dripping down into the apartment and SH seems disinclined to do anything about it?  Imagine the vermin that would bring out.  Executive producer Robert Docherty bolstered his claim to be a serious Sherlockian more as the series wears on, inserting more of those quotations and inventive riffs on the Conan Doyle casebook (The episode 'The 5 Orange Pipz' is a particularly strong example.)  I like the supporting cast very much--diminutive detective Art Bell (get it?); and most of all, squad commander Tommy Gregson.  Rhys Ifans' Mycroft was very interesting.  Not sure how I feel about the whole Adler/Moriarty thing.  Still processing it, really.  Their ace in the hole was casting John Noble as Siger Holmes--he lends a classy menace to the whole enterprise.

Young Kitty Winter, the heroine of "The Illustrious Client" (Ophelia Lovibond) was also a refreshing surprise.

 

The most frustrating aspect of Elementary for me is its see-sawing from hi/lo in its tone and execution.  The photography is always outstanding--New York/Brooklyn always manages to look attractive, no matter the season.  The show is like a valentine to that city.  I love the brownstone set in all its faded, semi-grungy glory.  But for every transcendent speech that illustrates a deep affection for the original creation by the creative team, there are 4 or 5 or more clunky, forced moments of artificial hipness that drag me right back into seeing the deficiencies.  The snippets of canned pop music as exit cues in every episode, often with little to no relevance to the scene just past annoy me.  Watson's wardrobe annoys me endlessly. The more rococo shenanigans of this Holmes annoy me.  Would SH really get a lap dance from 2 hookers while chained to a kitchen chair for a case or no?  Or for that matter, consort with prostitutes several times a week for recreational purposes?  Does he have to be covered from head to toe in tattoos?  This Sherlock lacks the inherent dignity of the character, I feel.  SH oozes deportment and class even when he's being rude--not this one.  He's coarse and common a lot of the time, which makes his high toned speeches all the more jarring.

 

The show gets on a roll . . and then often brings itself to a screeching halt.  Better than expected, perhaps, but not nearly as good, or faithful as its transatlantic competition--though the American cast sure works a whole lot more hours on it.  I think both Miller and Liu struggle to bring lighter moments/comedy to their portrayals and are most of the time a glum pair onscreen, with zero chemistry of any description.  I don't understand why their more effervescent personal collaboration does not translate when cameras are rolling, but for me it doesn't.

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Poor Dr. Watson . .  he can't get no respect for his brain, despite finishing medical school, becoming a first-rate surgeon with the warm bedside manner of the first-rate GP as well, and rising to the rank of Captain in Her Majesty's Army.  He's most likely the smartest guy in any room that does not contain a Holmes brother--and yet his reputation in the popular mind is of this genial bourgeois idiot who should barely be capable of tying his own cravat.  Thanks, Nigel Bruce!  One wonders if Watson were perceived as so stupid before Mr. Bruce made him the Clown Prince of sidekicks.

 

In all fairness to Nigel Bruce, I seriously doubt that the goofiness was his idea.  It was surely in the script, and he was hired to play it that way.

 

As for Dr. Watson in general, he has to be a highly intelligent, honorable, approximately perfect human being in order not to be invisible while standing next to Sherlock Holmes.  I can't speak for most adaptations, but do think that both the Granada series and Sherlock bring out his admirable traits while still presenting him as hopelessly outclevered by Holmes.

 

And as I've said before, I don't think that Holmes (at least as portrayed by BC) is so much unbelievably intelligent (though he may be that as well).  Mostly he's highly intuitive, and his so-called deductions are actually multiple flashes of intuition strung together with threads of logic.

 

Does [Jonny Lee Miller's Holmes] have to be covered from head to toe in tattoos?

 

Probably Holmes doesn't have to, but those are Miller's tattoos.  Most of his characters wear body makeup (one can only imagine what a chore that must have been when he played Frankenstein's Creature!).  They do lend a quirky air to his Holmes which I think fits the character's personality, but I can certainly understand why some viewers might find them distracting.

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Maybe Bruce's portrayal does have something to do with Watson's reputation as a simpleton, because I never saw it and I have never thought of the character that way.

 

I always figured he had to be quite intelligent and competent because Holmes would never put up with an idiot. But because he was the narrator of their adventures, he couldn't very well sing his own praises.

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Bruce's portrayal seems to be what a lot of people think of, yeah. And his Watson was a bit of a dolt, true. But he didn't write the script, that's all I meant.

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It’s funny how much I disagree with all of you because there’s much I appreciate of JLM’s protrayal of Sherlock over BC’s, primarily that JLM is able to emote Sherlock’s feelings even though Sherlock is wholly uncomfortable with communicating them and that his Sherlock isn’t a total dick to strangers and those around him the majority of the time. Sherlock doesn’t talk to Gregson like Sherlock spoke to Lady Smallwood in season 4. Sherlock’s love and respect for Watson, Gregson, Bell, Kitty and his sponsor is obvious though the writers at times throughout the seasons have added dialogue/actions in scenes to convey that. It wasn’t always there with Bell but they did a whole season to develop that relationship after Sherlock’s pissing off a suspect got Bell shot/injured and unable to be a detective. It took Bell a long time to forgive Sherlock and Sherlock a long time to accept responsibility for his part in the events that lead to Bell being shot. The circumstances were actually very similar to Sherlock egging on Norbury when Mary got shot/killed. Admittedly, it took a bit of getting used to LL’s Watson but I have come to like it and I very much appreciate that there’s no weird underlying romantic/sexual tension between Watson/Sherlock but rather a purely platonic partnership.

 

ETA: I also really appreciate Elementary treats Sherlock’s drug use as a true addiction in a serious way rather than a humorous anecdote like it’s done in Sherlock.

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I thought hard before posting this because I didn’t/don’t want to sound in any way sexist. But.....as a traditionalist I don’t like the idea of this. I’m preparing myself for comments.

Nah, that's fine, imo. I do like the idea of a female Holmes and Watson but I want to write them myself as fanfiction, not watch them on TV :-P

 

Before Sherlock, I refused to see any adaptation of the Sherlock Holmes stories because I liked the character so much. I only consented to watch the BBC show because Martin Freeman was in it, then, well... I fell in love.

 

Funny, I have never thought of Holmes as very male. For me, he always came across as if his gender didn't really matter.

 

I wasnt even happy when I heard about Sherlock. Fortunately it was one of the best surprises of my life

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Weird, I didn't even have to reboot, the problem just as suddenly fixed itself. Earlier I couldn't access the emoties menu, but now I can. Great, either the forum's glitching, or my computer is. Can I beg the forum software to take the blame so I don't have to take my laptop to the shop?  :( 

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

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I do like the Granada Watson, although I’ve only seen a small portion of those. I also liked the Watson in the movie “The Seven-Per-Cent Solution”. I didn’t much like Nigel Bruce’s Watson or the Bruce/Rathbone pairing, which unfortunately was the only one I saw growing up. It might have contributed to putting me off Sherlock Holmes for so long.

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I don't recall ever minding the Nigel Bruce Watson ... but then, I had nothing to compare him to. Dang, now I'm getting a yen to see some of those old Rathbone movies. Like I don't have enough to do. Shoo, you!

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It’s funny how much I disagree with all of you because there’s much I appreciate of JLM’s protrayal of Sherlock over BC’s, primarily that JLM is able to emote Sherlock’s feelings even though Sherlock is wholly uncomfortable with communicating them and that his Sherlock isn’t a total dick to strangers and those around him the majority of the time. 

 

I actually agree.  Most of what I don't like about Elementary is the way that the other characters (specifically Watson) are written, and the fact that so many episodes seem to veer into "CSI: Baker Street" territory, in that they feel more like an American police procedural rather than a Sherlock Holmes portrayal.  It makes sense, because this is an American show, but I just have never liked that genre.

 

Heresy time here:  I think, at many points, JLM is a better actor than BC.  He handles the material in Elementary in a sensitive and nuanced way, and then he can turn around and do something like Frankenstein. I know BC essentially did the same, but I think JLM introduced elements to Holmes's character that make him sympathetic even though he is scarred and battle hardened.

 

(And, FWIW, I like both the tattoos and the prostitutes.  It's just another way of making Holmes bohemian in the modern era; there's only so much shock value we can really get from someone hanging out in his dressing gown all day like we would in the Victorian era.)

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

 

Confession time:  I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie.  Only clips and stills.  But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'.  Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis?  Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.

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It’s funny how much I disagree with all of you because there’s much I appreciate of JLM’s protrayal of Sherlock over BC’s, primarily that JLM is able to emote Sherlock’s feelings even though Sherlock is wholly uncomfortable with communicating them and that his Sherlock isn’t a total dick to strangers and those around him the majority of the time. 

 

I actually agree.  Most of what I don't like about Elementary is the way that the other characters (specifically Watson) are written, and the fact that so many episodes seem to veer into "CSI: Baker Street" territory, in that they feel more like an American police procedural rather than a Sherlock Holmes portrayal.  It makes sense, because this is an American show, but I just have never liked that genre.

 

Heresy time here:  I think, at many points, JLM is a better actor than BC.  He handles the material in Elementary in a sensitive and nuanced way, and then he can turn around and do something like Frankenstein. I know BC essentially did the same, but I think JLM introduced elements to Holmes's character that make him sympathetic even though he is scarred and battle hardened.

 

(And, FWIW, I like both the tattoos and the prostitutes.  It's just another way of making Holmes bohemian in the modern era; there's only so much shock value we can really get from someone hanging out in his dressing gown all day like we would in the Victorian era.)

 

 

Boton,

 

You continually surprise me; liking both the tats and the hookers is a bit unexpected.  I wasn't aware that Jonny had so much ink of his own and wondered idly how long it took in the makeup chair every time Sherlock has a shirtless scene.  Apparently not much, if JLM spent all his chair-time at the tat parlor on other occasions.  I'm not surprised that he had some ink--this man was Angelina Jolie's first husband after all.  I suppose giving this heroin-addict Sherlock all that ink just underscores how much he *really* loves the needle.

 

I guess bohemianism is known for its breezy approach to free love as one aspect of itself, but the fact that this Sherlock's love-by-the-hour encounters are bought with cash turns me off.  Bohemianism is about freedom of expression in an artistic milieu.  If SH was hiring these ladies so he could draw them in his own private nature study class, that would be Bohemian.  Paying for sex is the antithesis of bohemian, really, with its nod to the underground free market economy.  And while not wanting to open a debate on whether selling sexual services should be illegal (I lean toward not, unless drug trafficking, violence or minors are in the picture)--at the present time, soliciting sexual companionship for money is a crime.  SH likes to bend the rules, but I am not comfortable with him consistently supporting a criminal enterprise with his patronage.  The fact that he requires this outlet at all--is, in fact a bit of a male nymphomaniac, even if it is 'just' physical release--is also deeply antithetical to the character of Sherlock Holmes.  They can call JLM's character Sherlock Holmes if they want to, but I'm not buying it.  To me, he is an addict with multiple addictions & an avid fantasy life who fancies himself Sherlock Holmes.  It's a basically harmless delusion, because he is quite useful at solving crimes.  JLM creates something quite unique in the annuals of pastiche, but to me, it's not bona fide Holmes in spirit or flavor.

 

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Hikari, I see where you are coming from.  Of all the Holmeses, this one is probably one of the farthest from the original, and the more of a purist you are, the more this one is bound to grate.  I totally get that.  

 

As for the tattoos and prostitutes, well.  Personally, I just like tattoos.  I don't have any, but I think well-done ink can be very attractive and a fun way to express oneself.  It makes sense to me that this would fit with this particular Sherlock.

 

The prostitutes are another manner.  I like them in this case because I like the idea that this Sherlock handles matters of the transport by simply buying anything he needs.  They are no different than food or water; a biological urge that he can satisfy with cash rather than risk an emotional distraction.  I'm not personally a huge fan of prostitution, but it works for me here. In fact, this portrayal is the one that convinced me that our Mycroft probably makes use of a similar service made available through the Diogenes, with very circumspect professionals providing the service.  Maybe that's even how he met Irene.

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.

You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night.

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.

You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night.

 

 

I purchased a Sherlock movie pack featuring the Rathbone/Bruce Hound, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and another . .Without a Clue? . . can't remember.  Then my TV died, and I haven't watched those discs yet.  Soon, I hope.

 

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I have been watching the Rathbone movies lately with a newfound appreciation.  I enjoy looking for similarities between them and BBC "Sherlock".  So far my favorites have been "Dressed to Kill" and "The Woman in Green".  I also liked "Terror By Night", "The Secret Weapon", and "The Hound", although the latter two lost my attention for a bit in the middle.  I enjoyed Watson's exasperation at Holmes' reveal in "The Hound" though, lol.  I don't think I've seen any others yet.

 

 

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.
You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night.

I purchased a Sherlock movie pack featuring the Rathbone/Bruce Hound, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and another . .Without a Clue? . . can't remember. Then my TV died, and I haven't watched those discs yet. Soon, I hope.

The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes is a gem. I’ve just pre-ordered the new Blu-ray version with deleted scenes and documentary. I’m like a kid waiting for Santa

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Poor old Nigel Bruce has certainly come in for some criticism over the years for his portrayal of Watson. I think that it’s worth remembering though that the movies weren’t an attempt (like Granada’s) to make a completely faithful representation. They wanted Watson to be a counterbalance to the coldly logical Holmes and saw Bruce as the ideal man for the job. Bruce pretty much played the same character in every film he made. His character actually got more comic after The Hound Of The Baskervilles. The movie company no doubt saw the comic potential of the Rathbone/Bruce double-act.

Confession time: I have never seen a Rathbone/Bruce Holmes movie. Only clips and stills. But I gather that Nigel Bruce plays Watson basically the same as his turn opposite Cary Grant & Joan Fontaine in Suspicion . . . as a genial, dim 'old bean'. Loveable . . but do you really want to rely on him in a crisis? Nigel was a top character actor just taking direction, as actors do . . one wonders if he ever pined to play his Watson as just a tiny bit more intelligent and coordinated.
You surprise me Hikari. If I’d advise any of the Rathbone/Bruce movies I’d go for ‘The Hound’ as I think it’s the best version ever. Then the next movie ‘The Adventures.’ Of The others I’d go for The Scarlet Claw And Terror By Night.

I purchased a Sherlock movie pack featuring the Rathbone/Bruce Hound, The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes and another . .Without a Clue? . . can't remember. Then my TV died, and I haven't watched those discs yet. Soon, I hope.

The Private Life Of Sherlock Holmes is a gem. I’ve just pre-ordered the new Blu-ray version with deleted scenes and documentary. I’m like a kid waiting for Santa

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.... and the fact that so many episodes seem to veer into "CSI: Baker Street" territory, in that they feel more like an American police procedural rather than a Sherlock Holmes portrayal. It makes sense, because this is an American show, but I just have never liked that genre.

I don’t mind procedurals but I do think Elementary is different than the others I watch because each season has a season long character arc that is separate from the case of the week.

 

Heresy time here: I think, at many points, JLM is a better actor than BC. He handles the material in Elementary in a sensitive and nuanced way, and then he can turn around and do something like Frankenstein. I know BC essentially did the same, but I think JLM introduced elements to Holmes's character that make him sympathetic even though he is scarred and battle hardened.

You won’t get any argument from me on this but I do think a part of it is that the writing and tone of Elementary is much more serious than Sherlock. I also think it’s acting choices on behalf of BC to really embrace the immature, abrasive part of Sherlock’s personality rather than imbue him with more layers. Elementary’s Sherlock just has more depth for me, a world weary damaged man with high intellect and with more appreciation for those around him because of how fragile life is. I also wouldn’t be surprised if JLM has some sort of personal exposure to drug addiction through himself or close friend/family because he definitely adds texture to Sherlock that his addiction is an ever part of his psyche then again, Sherlock has relapsed a couple of times on Elementary so it’s easy to convey.

 

(And, FWIW, I like both the tattoos and the prostitutes. It's just another way of making Holmes bohemian in the modern era; there's only so much shock value we can really get from someone hanging out in his dressing gown all day like we would in the Victorian era.)

I don’t particular care for body art but it doesn’t affect my viewing of Elementary though I’m certainly not a Sherlock scholar.
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I have been watching the Rathbone movies lately with a newfound appreciation.  I enjoy looking for similarities between them and BBC "Sherlock".

 

Speaking of similarities...

 

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^ Coat collar up.  :P

 

 

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... her companion Miss Wato ....

 

Which in Japanese would surely be "Wato-san"?  :D

 

 

Hai, so desu ne!  (You got it!)

 

Wato-san, indeed.  I'd be interested to know what the first names of our characters will be. 

 

Miss Sherlock's first name is perhaps 'Shindoko'  (Wonder child/prodigy).

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Given that first names are hardly ever used outside the family in Japan, the show could very easily follow the lead of Doyle's original stories -- "my esteemed Watso-san," and so forth.

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