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1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I don't think any of us were talking about "forcing" interactions


You're absolutely right, none of us were.  It's just that that some people tend to think that's the answer -- or at least they used to -- so I wanted to make it clear that wasn't what I was talking about (partly for the benefit of any guests on the forum).
 

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

I also knew people who homeschooled primarily [... because] they didn't want their kids to have "outside influences." Their right, but I pitied their children. They were odd little creatures, too, poor things.


Some kids are gonna turn out odd (in our eyes, at least) simply because of how their parents are raising them, regardless of where they go to school.  And I don't know of any palatable solution to that, so guess I'll just say vive la difference!

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Thanks for clarifying, it sounds much more workable and reasonable than what I was worried for.

One of many things that terrifies me is wrong 'education', namely people who are supposed to provide good guidance but being irresponsible, inadequate or have their own agendas. Teachers, religious leaders, law enforcement, politicians. Well I have high hope and high suspicions for all of them, with very high level of scepticism.

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22 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Thanks for clarifying, it sounds much more workable and reasonable than what I was worried for.

One of many things that terrifies me is wrong 'education', namely people who are supposed to provide good guidance but being irresponsible, inadequate or have their own agendas. Teachers, religious leaders, law enforcement, politicians. Well I have high hope and high suspicions for all of them, with very high level of scepticism.

All the more reason to expose kids to many different influences, imo, so they can learn to think for themselves. Although it's easy for me to say that ... whether through genetics or upbringing, I was never interested in some of the more questionable "influences", such as drugs or cigarettes. I know that's the kind of thing many parents are worried about, as well as sexual lenience, in the public schools. Still seems to me it's up to them to teach their kids how to resist certain influences, but again -- easy for me to say. I do have a lot of sympathy for parents these days, seems like it's awfully hard to raise decent kids in our culture. I know some who have done it, though.

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On 4/5/2020 at 11:42 AM, Arcadia said:

All the more reason to expose kids to many different influences, imo, so they can learn to think for themselves. 

I agree, at the very least, they won't get 'scared' or pick on something that is different from them.

On 4/5/2020 at 11:42 AM, Arcadia said:

Although it's easy for me to say that ... whether through genetics or upbringing, I was never interested in some of the more questionable "influences", such as drugs or cigarettes.

Same here. Many of my close female friends back then was curious and tried cigarette, just wanted to know what it's like. I wasn't interested at all eventhough I'm naturally very curious and considered adventurous. I know it smells bad, the idea of inhaling this nasty stuff and poison is not in my field of curiosity, I rate it below trying to handle venomous animals. I'd also say eating Fugu is not adventurous, but stupid.

On 4/5/2020 at 11:42 AM, Arcadia said:

I do have a lot of sympathy for parents these days, seems like it's awfully hard to raise decent kids in our culture. I know some who have done it, though.

Indeed! I'm not envy for the struggle of parents, that's why I think being a parent is a very heavy responsibility, and have to be taken very seriously.

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6 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Same here. Many of my close female friends back then was curious and tried cigarette, just wanted to know what it's like. I wasn't interested at all eventhough I'm naturally very curious and considered adventurous. I know it smells bad, the idea of inhaling this nasty stuff and poison is not in my field of curiosity, I rate it below trying to handle venomous animals. I'd also say eating Fugu is not adventurous, but stupid.

Same! I've always wondered about that too ... why was I so danged different when it came to things like that? My Dad smoked ... you'd think I would have at least been tempted to try it.. All my siblings did. But the thought always repelled me. Same with getting drunk (not that my Dad did!) ... it was such a huge part of the college experience, one I wanted absolutely nothing to do with. Of course, I saw drunk college students, my Dad being a professor and all ... and they disgusted me. Yet most kids my age rushed to be part of that scene. And drugs. Don't get me started on the sheer stupidity (as I saw it) of trying drugs. 

Ah well, I'm glad I was different. Imagine having to recover from those behaviours years later. But it still makes me wonder.

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^ Ditto to the both of you.  All I can say is, it's nice at least to find so many "different" people here, all in one place.  :smile:  I don't get that anywhere else.

 

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13 hours ago, Artemis said:

All I can say is, it's nice at least to find so many "different" people here, all in one place.  :smile:  I don't get that anywhere else.

Likewise!

Though I would say that we could use some representation from political conservatives.  I probably understand that point of view better than many of you do, but I'm not really qualified to speak for it.

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Somehow "conservatism" and "embracing differences" don't go together in my mind... :D 

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12 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Somehow "conservatism" and "embracing differences" don't go together in my mind... :D 

Hmm -- having a little difficulty feeling respect for philosophical differences, are we?

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Respect for philosophical differences, yes. Believing the political conservative agenda leads to respect for people who are different ... not so much.

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38 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

Respect for philosophical differences, yes. Believing the political conservative agenda leads to respect for people who are different ... not so much.

*sigh*  And many conservatives have trouble believing that the liberal agenda leads to respect for individual rights.  These days just about everybody A} gets their information from people they already agree with and therefore B} sees those with differing views as basically bad people.

By the way, let me point out that your comment might be interpreted as indicating lack of respect for people who are different from you in their political views.

And yet I believe you once mentioned having some Republican friends -- do they lack respect for people who are different from them?

 

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17 hours ago, Artemis said:

^ Ditto to the both of you.  All I can say is, it's nice at least to find so many "different" people here, all in one place.  :smile:  I don't get that anywhere else.

Yah, I have realised that for a while, that's why I could never leave. This is the place where I could be quite normal and there are arguably nutter-er people than me. I don't want to meet you guys in real life and ruin all this fantasy, man. :P Anyway, I'd be too shy to talk to you.

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6 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

I don't want to meet you guys in real life and ruin all this fantasy, man

 

Oh, trust me -- we're just as nutty in person!

 

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Forgive my ignorance (again this is an excuse for me to say anything without being blamed :D), I'm fascinated (not in a good way) about America's political system to be honest. It's hard for me to imagine choosing a 'side' or preference because I think I would have found factors that I like or dislike from different sides, and I wouldn't want my belief to be represented by certain side (for example sexual orientation, woman's right etc etc), and it's certainly tedious to, say, I am a ________ but I'm not agreeing with their view of _____.

Most likely I'm living under the shell, but as messed up as the politic of the place that I'm staying, at the very least we are not defined by that, I think. We can have the same views but support different sides. For a few with extreme agenda, there are many 'general' ones. But then again, I can't say I know much, I could be very very wrong.

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1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Oh, trust me -- we're just as nutty in person!

I can't say I disagree. :D

People say I don't look like my personality and I like to start laughing randomly and hysterically during midnight (this happened a lot in uni, we always studied overnight), and I also have mastered villain laugh (the deep disturbing most cartoony villain laugh) just to scare and make my dad laugh, every single time.

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14 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

It's hard for me to imagine choosing a 'side' or preference because I think I would have found factors that I like or dislike from different sides, and I wouldn't want my belief to be represented by certain side (for example sexual orientation, woman's right etc etc), and it's certainly tedious to, say, I am a ________ but I'm not agreeing with their view of _____.

^ Ditto.  I think there are many people who feel this way, they're just less comfortable (or less obnoxious) about expressing themselves.  In my opinion, American politics seem more divisive than they really are.  What you might see from media outlets is always going to be the most extreme cases, people, version of events, etc., because sensationalism is part of their job.  It's what gets attention.

 

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28 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

I'm fascinated (not in a good way) about America's political system to be honest. It's hard for me to imagine choosing a 'side' or preference because I think I would have found factors that I like or dislike from different sides, and I wouldn't want my belief to be represented by certain side....


A lot of us Americans feel the same way.  :(

Where you live, are there more than two political parties that stand a chance of seeing their candidates elected?  I think part of the problem here is that -- because of our "winner take all" system -- we tend at any given time to have only two parties with any chance of winning elections.  And of course if there are only two presidential candidates (for example) to choose from, you're not likely to agree 100% (or even close) with either of them.

So some people throw up their hands in dismay and simply don't vote -- and then the government claims that they're "apathetic."  Some people vote for a minor party, knowing that they haven't a snowball's chance of winning, but at least they're more representative of that voter's beliefs.  And most people, I think, don't so much vote FOR either major candidate, they vote AGAINST the one they dislike the most.

Didn't use to be that bad, but certainly has been for the past twenty years, at least.

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5 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

A lot of us Americans feel the same way.  :(

Where you live, are there more than two political parties that stand a chance of seeing their candidates elected?  I think part of the problem here is that -- because of our "winner take all" system (which is to say we do not have proportional representation) -- we tend at any given time to have only two parties with any chance of winning elections.  And of course if there are only two presidential candidates (for example) to choose from, you're not likely to agree 100% (or even close) with either of them.

So some people throw up their hands in dismay and simply don't vote -- and then the government claims that they're "apathetic."  Some people vote for a minor party, knowing that they haven't a snowball's chance of winning, but at least they're more representative of that voter's beliefs.  And most people, I think, don't so much vote FOR either major candidate, they vote AGAINST the one they dislike the most.

Didn't use to be that bad, but certainly has been for the past twenty years, at least.

^ 100% agree.  Carol for President!

 

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9 minutes ago, Artemis said:

In my opinion, American politics seem more divisive than they really are.  What you might see from media outlets is always going to be the most extreme cases, people, version of events, etc


That's probably true.  However -- pretty soon, people start to believe it.  So it doesn't matter whether it's literally true or not, if an awful lot of people sincerely believe that the "other side" is evil.

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Just now, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's probably true.  However -- pretty soon, people start to believe it.  So it doesn't matter whether it's literally true or not, if an awful lot of people sincerely believe that the "other side" is evil.

True...

People are stupid.

 

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1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Where you live, are there more than two political parties that stand a chance of seeing their candidates elected?

Technically yes, but most likely there are always two strongest ones, so it's quite similar in a way.

 

1 hour ago, Artemis said:

^ 100% agree.  Carol for President!

So you will be too busy to be moderator yes? :P

 

1 hour ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's probably true.  However -- pretty soon, people start to believe it.  So it doesn't matter whether it's literally true or not, if an awful lot of people sincerely believe that the "other side" is evil.

Perception is reality.

 

1 hour ago, Artemis said:

True...

People are stupid.

Yah. If we are frustrated, imagine Sherlock. I'd yell at people about IQ level too.

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5 minutes ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

Yah. If we are frustrated, imagine Sherlock. I'd yell at people about IQ level too.

I yell at people about their stupidity, but I reserve it for my television so that in person I can hold back with infinite patience.  :P 
 

tumblr_inline_p2im7nDqmf1v13j7p_400.gif

 

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8 hours ago, Van Buren Supernova said:

So you will be too busy to be moderator yes? :P

 

Dream on!   :tongue3:

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19 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

By the way, let me point out that your comment might be interpreted as indicating lack of respect for people who are different from you in their political views.

And yet I believe you once mentioned having some Republican friends -- do they lack respect for people who are different from them?

Let me put it this way; even though they are Republicans, these friends are, with one exception, not what I would refer to, these days, as conservatives. They are, as I am, middle of the road -- which I would define, in this context, as striving for the proper balance between social justice and individual liberties. Or to put it still another way; none of us embrace racism, homophobia, religious dogma, etc. ... which is what I meant by not respecting people who are different.

So yes, we may disagree with (or disrespect) each other's ideas on how to achieve that "proper balance"; but we don't lack respect for each other based on our political affiliation (or in my case, lack thereof. :smile: 

HOWEVER -- I admit to being deliberately provocative in my initial remark about conservatism (up there, somewhere). I do understand that traditional political conservatism was primarily concerned with promoting free enterprise, individual liberties and national security, in the belief those alone would somehow lead to a more perfect union. I don't agree with the reasoning, but I sympathize with the desired outcome. 

So, to be more accurate, my phrasing above should have been: "Believing the ALT-RIGHT agenda leads to respect for people who are different ... not so much." But I put it the way I did for two reasons:

1. I believe that traditional and political conservatism in this country is all but officially dead, having been sacrificed, without much struggle, to the alt-right. And  call me stupid ( :tongue:), but I sincerely believe the alt-right and their neo-fascist cronies are an evil that needs to be eradicated from this world, and I will rail against them and resist their perverse ideology as long as there is breath in my body.

2. I knew it would provoke a response from you. :P 

 

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4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

2. I knew it would provoke a response from you. :P 


You know me all too well!

  

4 hours ago, Arcadia said:

even though they are Republicans, these friends are, with one exception, not what I would refer to, these days, as conservatives. They are, as I am, middle of the road -- which I would define, in this context, as striving for the proper balance between social justice and individual liberties. Or to put it still another way; none of us embrace racism, homophobia, religious dogma, etc. ... which is what I meant by not respecting people who are different.


I get the feeling that you're equating "conservatives" with some worst-case stereotype, and since your friends aren't like that, you conclude that they aren't "really" conservatives.  Maybe you just live too close to all those politicians?

Where we live, most people are basically conservative, or basically Republican, or independents who hardly ever vote for Democrats -- and, like your Republican friends, they are by and large very fine folks.  There are two local individuals (I hesitate to call them "neighbors") who are blatant racists. but they don't just hate blacks, they seem to have no respect for anyone but themselves -- and I have yet to meet *anybody* who likes these individuals.  So please don't characterize ordinary American conservatives as racist.  And many local folks are ardent fundamentalists, but they seem more curious than hostile about my lack of dogma, so the same goes for religion.

I can't really say what the local attitude toward homosexuals might be, because I'm not aware of any out here in the boonies, and I don't recall ever hearing any comments.  But the local breed of conservatives tend to be polite folks who respect everyone's privacy, so I have every reason to hope that they'd show the same consideration to any gays who might move into the neighborhood.

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