The possibly good and the definitely bad.

[HerlockSholmes]

Hi all. I finally got around to buying the Holmes And Watson movie as I saw it for sale on a market stall for £1. To be honest, I suspect that it was in the wrong pile as £1 is way too cheap for such a relatively recent movie. I ignored the critics who appear to have been 100% negative and approached the movie to with as near an open mind as I could muster. And so here’s my review.........it’s crap! To be fair, there were a few bits that made me smile but that was it. Will Ferrell was just irritating as Holmes and John C Reilly was as bad (after his great performance as Oliver Hardy too) I can now look forward to buying Sherlock Gnolmes knowing that it simply cant be as bad as this. It was a missed opportunity too as the Holmes/Watson partnership is pretty ripe for a comedy version but it needed better writing than this.

As an aside, I don’t know if anyone else has seen this but it’s a very short trailer for the Moftiss Dracula. Looks like they’ve gone for a traditional take (Lugosi/Lee) rather than a modern take or indeed an super accurate version of the original book. I’m quite looking forward to it and there’s no sign of Will Ferrell in the cast list.

https://www.cbr.com/bbc-first-trailer-sherlock-creators-dracula-adaptation/amp/

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Nice to see you again, Herlock!

And thanks for the review.  I don't always trust the professional reviewers, because some of them seem to have very specific expectations that don't necessarily match my own.  But now that we have 101% agreement, I guess I will feel all right about turning my back on that particular film.  Too bad -- Ferrell was good in Stranger than Fiction, so I did have hopes.

2 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

it’s a very short trailer for the Moftiss Dracula. Looks like they’ve gone for a traditional take (Lugosi/Lee) rather than a modern take or indeed an super accurate version of the original book. I’m quite looking forward to it and there’s no sign of Will Ferrell in the cast list.

https://www.cbr.com/bbc-first-trailer-sherlock-creators-dracula-adaptation/amp/

That's consistent with what little they've said -- namely that it's a period piece.  And they do tend to adapt the earlier adaptations, don't they?  There's a lot of that in Sherlock.

[HerlockSholmes]

31 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Nice to see you again, Herlock!

And thanks for the review.  I don't always trust the professional reviewers, because some of them seem to have very specific expectations that don't necessarily match my own.  But now that we have 101% agreement, I guess I will feel all right about turning my back on that particular film.  Too bad -- Ferrell was good in Stranger than Fiction, so I did have hopes.

That's consistent with what little they've said -- namely that it's a period piece.  And they do tend to adapt the earlier adaptations, don't they?  There's a lot of that in Sherlock.

Hello Carol,

I saw a few clips of H & W so I wasn’t exactly filled with optimism. You’re right about critics though. I tend not to trust them but when you read that every single one gives the thumbs down theres a fair chance that they’re on to something.

I must say that I’m quite looking forward to Dracula as I’m a bit of a fan of old horror movies (as opposed to modern gore-fest, torture porn stuff.....Hostel etc) I don’t know any of the actors really although I think that I checked a few out a while ago and recognised a couple. 
 

Maybe when this is done they might start thinking in terms of Sherlock? I tend to think that they do intend to do another but I’ve heard no real news.

[Carol the Dabbler]

43 minutes ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Maybe when this is done they might start thinking in terms of Sherlock? I tend to think that they do intend to do another but I’ve heard no real news.

"Intend" may be too strong a word.  I think it's more like they assume they'll eventually do another series of Sherlock.  And I suspect they're right, but nobody (including them) has much idea when that might be.  But I agree, they definitely need to get Dracula out of their system first.

[J.P.]

41 minutes ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

I think it's more like they assume they'll eventually do another series of Sherlock.

Maybe they will, once fans stop moaning "give us S5" under everything they post at social media.

Herlock, if you would be interested in changing your mind about Will Ferrell, you might have a look at Stranger Than Fiction.

[HerlockSholmes]

2 hours ago, J.P. said:

Maybe they will, once fans stop moaning "give us S5" under everything they post at social media.

Herlock, if you would be interested in changing your mind about Will Ferrell, you might have a look at Stranger Than Fiction.

To be honest JP I’m not what you’d call a film buff so I haven’t seen Ferrell in anything else (as far as I can recall) so I don’t have anything against him. There was just something about his Holmes that I wasn’t keen on. Maybe if I watched the movie again it might ‘grow on me’ a little? Im a bit of a nit picker when it comes to Holmes portrayals but in this case I don’t think that I was setting my hopes too high. I just think that it could have been a much better movie.

[HerlockSholmes]

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

"Intend" may be too strong a word.  I think it's more like they assume they'll eventually do another series of Sherlock.  And I suspect they're right, but nobody (including them) has much idea when that might be.  But I agree, they definitely need to get Dracula out of their system first.

You’re probably right Carol. I couldn’t help wondering if there’s been an element of intentional ‘will they, won’t they’ going on? I haven’t followed any press talk so I don’t know.

I wonder what this one will be like when it surfaces?

https://www.arthur-conan-doyle.com/index.php/Sherlock_North

So many updated Holmes versions. I only saw two episodes of Miss Sherlock which I wasn’t keen on. Maybe I need to give it another go? I think Hikari quite liked it but what did everyone else think?

Then there’s this which I’m not looking forward to.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/hot-new-netflix-tv-series-17061304

A drug addicted Holmes who lets the Irregulars solve the cases and he takes the credit! Is nothing sacred?😃

 

I think that I have a long wait in store for a new ‘traditional’ Holmes. The closest I can see is the third Downey Jnr movie (I think in 2021?) I do sometimes wonder if someone will attempt a series? The nearest we got was the Matt Frewer movies and I can’t see him making anymore. Perhaps programme makers are just reluctant to follow the Grenada series. I talked to someone in London a few weeks ago who knew a young actor who really wanted to play Holmes. He’d talked to a few people to see if the idea might catch on but he was told by a a Producer friend to forget it, with the words “ you will always be measured against Brett. It ain’t worth it.” So he gave up the idea.

[Arcadia]

11 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Hi all. I finally got around to buying the Holmes And Watson movie as I saw it for sale on a market stall for £1. To be honest, I suspect that it was in the wrong pile as £1 is way too cheap for such a relatively recent movie. I ignored the critics who appear to have been 100% negative and approached the movie to with as near an open mind as I could muster. And so here’s my review.........it’s crap! To be fair, there were a few bits that made me smile but that was it. Will Ferrell was just irritating as Holmes and John C Reilly was as bad (after his great performance as Oliver Hardy too) I can now look forward to buying Sherlock Gnolmes knowing that it simply cant be as bad as this. It was a missed opportunity too as the Holmes/Watson partnership is pretty ripe for a comedy version but it needed better writing than this.

As an aside, I don’t know if anyone else has seen this but it’s a very short trailer for the Moftiss Dracula. Looks like they’ve gone for a traditional take (Lugosi/Lee) rather than a modern take or indeed an super accurate version of the original book. I’m quite looking forward to it and there’s no sign of Will Ferrell in the cast list.

https://www.cbr.com/bbc-first-trailer-sherlock-creators-dracula-adaptation/amp/

 

Bless you, sir, for taking on the burden of actually viewing this film on our behalf. I salute your bravery! May the Lord keep you in his hand, and never close his fist too tight.  

[Carol the Dabbler]

3 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I only saw two episodes of Miss Sherlock which I wasn’t keen on. Maybe I need to give it another go?

That's the Japanese adaptation?  I've seen only a clip from that show, but I love the name of the sidekick, Miss Wato -- which in Japanese is Wato-san.    

3 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Then there’s this which I’m not looking forward to.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/hot-new-netflix-tv-series-17061304

A drug addicted Holmes who lets the Irregulars solve the cases and he takes the credit! Is nothing sacred?😃

According to that article, the show is actually about the kids, rather than about Holmes himself.  That's an interesting angle.  And of course it's a period piece, which these days is kinda unusual.  Might be worth watching, though it may not be available over here.

3 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I talked to someone in London a few weeks ago who knew a young actor who really wanted to play Holmes. He’d talked to a few people to see if the idea might catch on but he was told by a a Producer friend to forget it, with the words “ you will always be measured against Brett. It ain't worth it."

Probably quite true.  But they probably warned Brett that he'd be measured against Rathbone.     Anyhow, if the young actor is willing to wait a couple more decades, they might by then be looking for someone to play a middle-aged Victorian Holmes.

[HerlockSholmes]

13 hours ago, Arcadia said:

Bless you, sir, for taking on the burden of actually viewing this film on our behalf. I salute your bravery! May the Lord keep you in his hand, and never close his fist too tight.  

The things I’ll do for Sherlock Holmes Arcadia 😃I can at least console myself with the fact that I only spent £1.

Sherlock Gnolmes next perhaps?

[HerlockSholmes]

12 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That's the Japanese adaptation?  I've seen only a clip from that show, but I love the name of the sidekick, Miss Wato -- which in Japanese is Wato-san.    

According to that article, the show is actually about the kids, rather than about Holmes himself.  That's an interesting angle.  And of course it's a period piece, which these days is kinda unusual.  Might be worth watching, though it may not be available over here.

Probably quite true.  But they probably warned Brett that he'd be measured against Rathbone.     Anyhow, if the young actor is willing to wait a couple more decades, they might by then be looking for someone to play a middle-aged Victorian Holmes.

True enough Carol. Even more so perhaps after the Douglas Wilmer and Peter Cushing tv series which were both very good.

Its now approaching 25 years since the final Grenada episode. September 12th next year will be the 25th anniversary of Brett’s death. Stephen Fry and others are pushing for him to be given a posthumous award. Long overdue in my opinion.👍

This is a good interview if you get time for a look.

 

 

[Carol the Dabbler]

Is it true that Brett didn't receive any "official" recognition for doing the Holmes series?  No BAFTA, in particular?  That's just -- weird!  (Please forgive my ignorance, but did they have BAFTAs back then?)  I certainly hope they're able to remedy that situation.

[HerlockSholmes]

2 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Is it true that Brett didn't receive any "official" recognition for doing the Holmes series?  No BAFTA, in particular?  That's just -- weird!  (Please forgive my ignorance, but did they have BAFTAs back then?)  I certainly hope they're able to remedy that situation.

The BAFTA’s began in 1947 (Wiki) but it’s true that Brett never got any kind of acting recognition. Considering how highly regarded he was (especially for his portrayal of Holmes) it’s surprising as the acting profession appears to like throwing awards at anyone.

I didn’t realise this (or I’d forgotten it) but apparently he turned down the chance to take over from Sean Connery as Bond leaving the way open for George Lazenby.

[Carol the Dabbler]

7 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

The BAFTA’s began in 1947 (Wiki) but it’s true that Brett never got any kind of acting recognition. Considering how highly regarded he was (especially for his portrayal of Holmes) it’s surprising as the acting profession appears to like throwing awards at anyone.

Maybe the BAFTA people at that time considered Sherlock Holmes to be in the same category as super heroes, and therefore beneath their notice?

7 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

I didn’t realise this (or I’d forgotten it) but apparently he turned down the chance to take over from Sean Connery as Bond....

Guh?    I've seen Brett as both Holmes and Freddy Eynsford-Hill, so I should be well aware that the man had range.  But somehow -- Bond ???

[HerlockSholmes]

14 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

Maybe the BAFTA people at that time considered Sherlock Holmes to be in the same category as super heroes, and therefore beneath their notice?

Guh?    I've seen Brett as both Holmes and Freddy Eynsford-Hill, so I should be well aware that the man had range.  But somehow -- Bond ???

You could be right Carol. I guess that we could add horror movies to that category?

Even as one of worlds biggest Brett-as-Holmes fans even I can’t picture him as Bond.👎

Ive always thought that if they’d started Bond movies in the fifties then it had to have been Cary Grant for me.👍

[Carol the Dabbler]

8 hours ago, HerlockSholmes said:

Ive always thought that if they’d started Bond movies in the fifties then it had to have been Cary Grant for me.👍

That thought had never occurred to me, but yeah, he sure could do cool and suave.  I preferred him in comedies, though -- so few actors have the ability to do really good comedy that it seems a waste for those few to do anything else.

[Hikari]

Herlock, thanks for turning us onto the 'Sherlock Pod'.  That was a great interview with SF and I look forward to diving into all the episodes.  Guess this means I have to subscribe to the d@mn Tweetie as Craig Ferguson used to call it.

 

[Hikari]

17 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

That thought had never occurred to me, but yeah, he sure could do cool and suave.  I preferred him in comedies, though -- so few actors have the ability to do really good comedy that it seems a waste for those few to do anything else.

I had read this before but I double-checked myself.  This info is available on the JamesBondfandom.com/Wiki/Cary Grant site.

>>>>Bond producer Albert R. Broccoli was a close friend of Grant's and was the best man at his wedding. In the early 1960's when the Bond series was rolling around with their first film, Grant was the first person producers considered to play as the first James Bond because of his role as Roger Thornhill in Alfred Hitchcock's North By Northwest. Cary Grant had accepted the role, but he had wanted his contract to included only one film due to his old age of 58.[2] This caused producers to drop him and Sean Connery ultimately took the role as the first James Bond in 1962.

Trivia

James Mason, the person who had co-starred with Grant in North By Northwest, was also considered for the 007 role, but he had wanted his contract to include only two films.[3]<<<<

Cary would have been smashing, but he was right--58 was too old to shoulder a franchise out of the gate.  That was the same age that Roger Moore retired the role after 11 years and 6 films.

Roger Thornhill is an alternate Bond and he's fab.

The investment in Sean Connery certainly paid its dividends, but at the time, Cubby was taking a big gamble on a virtually unknown former lorry driver with one Disney credit (Darby O'Gill and the Little People) to his name.

Cubby's second choice after CG, Roger Moore was otherwise engaged as Simon Templar on his hit show The Saint.  Good news for Connery.  Of course the Bond brass ring came 'round again for Roger after George Lazenby crashed and burned after a successful first at-bat.  And Pierce Brosnan was the heir presumptive for Moore, but ABC refused to release PB from his contract for Remington Steele despite tanking ratings.  PB would have to wait 12 years for the brass ring to come 'round his way again.  In Pierce Brosnan, I feel that EON got the Cary Grant vibe, '90s edition.  PB was a worthy successor to both the lighthearted wit of the Moore incarnation with the grittier action aspects and Celtic flavor of a Connery.

Now that Dan Craig has brought Bond to retirement and his call sign has been reassigned to a black female, where do we see the franchise going?  Will James Bond return, as he has been for almost 60 years, or are we at the end of the road?  Discuss!

[Carol the Dabbler]

27 minutes ago, Hikari said:

In the early 1960's when the Bond series was rolling around with their first film, Grant was the first person producers considered to play as the first James Bond because of his role as Roger Thornhill in Alfred Hitchcock's North By Northwest.

If Thornhill was their template, Grant would have been an unusual Bond, to say the least.  As I recall, Thornhill was basically a fish out of water, a fairly ordinary fellow doing his best to cope with being buzzed by airplanes and so on.  Not the image that springs into my head when James Bond is mentioned!

32 minutes ago, Hikari said:

Cary Grant had accepted the role, but he had wanted his contract to included only one film due to his old age of 58.  This caused producers to drop him....

Too bad -- it would have been interesting!  And following that, would the producers have been the slightest bit interested in Connery?  The franchise might have borne very little resemblance to what it actually became.

[HerlockSholmes]

55 minutes ago, Hikari said:

I had read this before but I double-checked myself.  This info is available on the JamesBondfandom.com/Wiki/Cary Grant site.

>>>>Bond producer Albert R. Broccoli was a close friend of Grant's and was the best man at his wedding. In the early 1960's when the Bond series was rolling around with their first film, Grant was the first person producers considered to play as the first James Bond because of his role as Roger Thornhill in Alfred Hitchcock's North By Northwest. Cary Grant had accepted the role, but he had wanted his contract to included only one film due to his old age of 58.[2] This caused producers to drop him and Sean Connery ultimately took the role as the first James Bond in 1962.

Trivia

James Mason, the person who had co-starred with Grant in North By Northwest, was also considered for the 007 role, but he had wanted his contract to include only two films.[3]<<<<

Cary would have been smashing, but he was right--58 was too old to shoulder a franchise out of the gate.  That was the same age that Roger Moore retired the role after 11 years and 6 films.

Roger Thornhill is an alternate Bond and he's fab.

The investment in Sean Connery certainly paid its dividends, but at the time, Cubby was taking a big gamble on a virtually unknown former lorry driver with one Disney credit (Darby O'Gill and the Little People) to his name.

Cubby's second choice after CG, Roger Moore was otherwise engaged as Simon Templar on his hit show The Saint.  Good news for Connery.  Of course the Bond brass ring came 'round again for Roger after George Lazenby crashed and burned after a successful first at-bat.  And Pierce Brosnan was the heir presumptive for Moore, but ABC refused to release PB from his contract for Remington Steele despite tanking ratings.  PB would have to wait 12 years for the brass ring to come 'round his way again.  In Pierce Brosnan, I feel that EON got the Cary Grant vibe, '90s edition.  PB was a worthy successor to both the lighthearted wit of the Moore incarnation with the grittier action aspects and Celtic flavor of a Connery.

Now that Dan Craig has brought Bond to retirement and his call sign has been reassigned to a black female, where do we see the franchise going?  Will James Bond return, as he has been for almost 60 years, or are we at the end of the road?  Discuss!

Well I I didn’t know that Grant had been considered as Bond. 58 was a bit much though. Connery was only 53 when he made his Bond comeback in Never Say Never Again (which I quite liked) I didn’t know that Moore was considered before Connery either! I saw a clip of Brosnan the other day making a brief appearance in the final scene of one of my favourite movies of the Eighties The Long Good Friday.

As for the possible continuation of Bond my views might not be popular. I don’t want him as a Taiwanese Transsexual or a Haitian Hermaphrodite or a black lesbian dwarf or a gay Italian amputee. It’s 100% good to have a female lead role spy who outperforms all the men and saves the day (the more the better) but let’s leave Bond alone please. But to answer Hikari’s question of : will Bond return?

I just can’t see there being no Bond. There’s always a Bond. And let’s face it...£$£$£$£

[HerlockSholmes]

North By Northwest has always been in my top 5 movies. Haven’t seen it for a while so I might break out the Hitchcock box set over Christmas and watch it again (it might make up for Holmes & Watson.......and I never thought I’d say that!)

[Hikari]

3 hours ago, Carol the Dabbler said:

If Thornhill was their template, Grant would have been an unusual Bond, to say the least.  As I recall, Thornhill was basically a fish out of water, a fairly ordinary fellow doing his best to cope with being buzzed by airplanes and so on.  Not the image that springs into my head when James Bond is mentioned!

Too bad -- it would have been interesting!  And following that, would the producers have been the slightest bit interested in Connery?  The franchise might have borne very little resemblance to what it actually became.

Hmm.  I can't say that I ever found Cary Grant ever remotely like 'an ordinary fellow' in his movies, even if that's what the script said.  Cary was just a cut above ordinary mortals even when he was doing those slapstick comedies in the 1930s.  I have only seen NbNW once, and I can't recall precisely what Roger gave as his autobiography.  He starts off as sort of a louche playboy type but gets sucked into perilous situations with bad people and gets to display derring do, physicality (even if it was mostly choreographed) and his romantic hunk side.  All the elements of Bond, really.  If Sean Connery had not existed, Cary Grant probably would have been my image of 'James Bond'.

Rufus Sewell, another smoldering brunet said that Cary as Thornhill was his inspiration for his detective Aurelio Zen, the epitome of Italian suavity in three films for the BBC.  Rufie was leaning insouciantly against a pillar in Rome while he said this, looking very Grant-esque.

Let's just thank our lucky stars we didn't get Fleming's choice for his signature spy, bandleader Hoagy Carmichael!

[Carol the Dabbler]

1 hour ago, Hikari said:

Fleming's choice for his signature spy, bandleader Hoagy Carmichael!

Really!???   I can kinda see that, I think, though my vision of Carmichael (my fellow Hoosier!) is pretty fuzzy.  He was even older than Grant, though, by about four years.